Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?

[otolith]

768 said:

We must need mass immigration at once then, because migrants don't age. Otherwise we'd need more migrants for the ageing migrants, who in turn would need still more migrants.

You might do, if the population continues to fail to produce enough young people to maintain a stable population structure, yes. It doesn't require maintaining an ever growing population, though, it requires workable ratios of young and old people.

I noted somewhere upthread that someone raised the "net tax contributor" fallacy. An SME might only have one of those, but he wouldn't be one if he didn't have employees and customers.

[bad company]

Dave200 said:

Yes, my lack of evidence is definitely the problem here.

The problem here definitely isn't you lying to yourself and presenting statements without fact.

1. Less than 30,000 people reached the UK on small boats last year.
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/br...
Our total immigration was 1.22 million.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/283599/immigra...
That means that people on "small boats" made up around 2% of our immigration last year.

Your first lie, comprehensively debunked.

2. 93% of "small boat" arrivals are claiming asylum, which is completely and totally legal. Absolutely nothing illegal at all.
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/br...

Your second lie, comprehensively debunked.

Now, do please stop lying so obviously. It's very unbecoming of an adult.

1. You really think 30,000 illegals arriving in small boats is ok? As you know I was referring to the predominantly uneducated young males who arrive illegally by boat.

2. They should claim asylum in the first safe country. Why not France?

You throw around a lot of aggression and unfounded allegations of lies including previously a link to some twisted Twitter account.

[911hope]

bad company said:

1. You really think 30,000 illegals arriving in small boats is ok? As you know I was referring to the predominantly uneducated young males who arrive illegally by boat.

2. They should claim asylum in the first safe country. Why not France?

You throw around a lot of aggression and unfounded allegations of lies including previously a link to some twisted Twitter account.

Why are you focusing on 2% of the issue?
Are you a reform candidate?

[Mrr T]

Olivera said:

skwdenyer said:

It isn't a generation hence. It is now.

We would have a serious demographic problem *now* if the statistics showed a flatlining or declining workforce coinciding with an increasing elderly population.

So yes, we do have an increasing number of people aged 65+



Let's check to see if we have a declining workforce:



Oh. So despite our rapidly aging population we are actually *increasing* the size of the workforce year on year, primarily because our net immigration figures have overshot. The demographic doom mongering needs rowed back.

So us demographic doom mongers, who say the UK needs immigration to increase the size of the work force, should row back our comments because you have just showed that because of immigration our work retire ratio is being maintained. Did you think that though?

[Olivera]

911hope said:

Why are you focusing on 2% of the issue?
Are you a reform candidate?

The 2% cost a lot of money.

[768]

otolith said:

You might do, if the population continues to fail to produce enough young people to maintain a stable population structure, yes. It doesn't require maintaining an ever growing population, though, it requires workable ratios of young and old people.

Given a stable births/deaths ratio in the general population, which we have, I cannot see that you can adjust that young to old ratio, wherever it lies, by adding younger immigrants without doing it indefinitely and increasingly (or somehow deleting the immigrants from the statistics before they get old, I seem to recall retirement in Dubai is more difficult than being of working age).

[Dave200]

bad company said:

Dave200 said:

Yes, my lack of evidence is definitely the problem here.

The problem here definitely isn't you lying to yourself and presenting statements without fact.

1. Less than 30,000 people reached the UK on small boats last year.
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/br...
Our total immigration was 1.22 million.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/283599/immigra...
That means that people on "small boats" made up around 2% of our immigration last year.

Your first lie, comprehensively debunked.

2. 93% of "small boat" arrivals are claiming asylum, which is completely and totally legal. Absolutely nothing illegal at all.
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/br...

Your second lie, comprehensively debunked.

Now, do please stop lying so obviously. It's very unbecoming of an adult.

1. You really think 30,000 illegals arriving in small boats is ok? As you know I was referring to the predominantly uneducated young males who arrive illegally by boat.

2. They should claim asylum in the first safe country. Why not France?

You throw around a lot of aggression and unfounded allegations of lies including previously a link to some twisted Twitter account.

Brilliant. You get even better as you scramble to stay on your high horse. I've seen better attempts at deflection by children.

I've yet again comprehensively debunked your lies in this thread, using the actual law (you know, not the one you like to pretend exists) and actual government data.

Your response to this comprehensive dismantling of your 'argument' is to tell me I'm throwing around "unfounded allegations".

And to put the icing on the cake you try to accuse me of "aggression" because I'm calling out your lies. Just brilliant.

You're a proven liar in this thread. A functioning adult would own it and fess up, but you continue to dig a hole.

[Olivera]

Mrr T said:

So us demographic doom mongers, who say the UK needs immigration to increase the size of the work force, should row back our comments because you have just showed that because of immigration our work retire ratio is being maintained. Did you think that though?

The doom mongers posit we have an *immediate* crisis caused by an aging population. One would expect to therefore see a declining workforce, but in fact we see the opposite. So the problem is overstated and hence we have scope to reduce net immigration.

[Dave200]

911hope said:

bad company said:

1. You really think 30,000 illegals arriving in small boats is ok? As you know I was referring to the predominantly uneducated young males who arrive illegally by boat.

2. They should claim asylum in the first safe country. Why not France?

You throw around a lot of aggression and unfounded allegations of lies including previously a link to some twisted Twitter account.

Why are you focusing on 2% of the issue?
Are you a reform candidate?

Because it gets the gammony types (of all ages) all riled up.

[Gecko1978]

Mrr T said:

Gecko1978 said:

The alternative to immigration is to incentivise sustainable family growth in the UK so each generation having 2.1 children (iirc the .1 accounts for childhood deaths). So you would need a tax system that supports working families upto 2.1 kids. Not sure how that would work in practice like say 1% cut in income tax for 1st child 1st cut for second etc of course that penalises those without kids etc but it would encourage nuclear families. Not sure it's a good thing but neither is immigration at a scale we can't manage

Sorry to say it's more complex than that. Average age in the UK is 40. That already past peak child bearing. To reverse the decline you would need the next generation to be more than 2.1. Also people are living longer so you need a birth rate that actually increases the population so as to maintain the working retired ratio.

I did assume it was more complex but was not aware of the detials. I think as a nation qe need to address public health also obesity needs to be challenged so end of life people are healthier less dependent as well. I say this having just eaten a muffin as well lol

[ghost83]

Quite happy to vote reform



Think their policies are bang on

[President Merkin]

ghost83 said:

Quite happy to vote reform



Think their policies are bang on

It's one or the other to be fair.

[Dave200]

ghost83 said:

Quite happy to vote reform



Think their policies are bang on

Which ones were most persuasive?

The immigration policy, where the party leader couldn't define "essential immigration"?

The economic policy that has a ~£30bn hole in it?

The policy to withdraw us from the ECHR?

The policy to dismantle the NHS and replace it with an insurance system reminiscent of the US?

Or something else that I've missed?

[bitchstewie]

And now we have this filth.

Reform UK candidate described autistic people as ‘vegetables’

There really is no gutter they won't crawl down into is there.

[swisstoni]

Dave200 said:

bad company said:

Dave200 said:

Yes, my lack of evidence is definitely the problem here.

The problem here definitely isn't you lying to yourself and presenting statements without fact.

1. Less than 30,000 people reached the UK on small boats last year.
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/br...
Our total immigration was 1.22 million.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/283599/immigra...
That means that people on "small boats" made up around 2% of our immigration last year.

Your first lie, comprehensively debunked.

2. 93% of "small boat" arrivals are claiming asylum, which is completely and totally legal. Absolutely nothing illegal at all.
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/br...

Your second lie, comprehensively debunked.

Now, do please stop lying so obviously. It's very unbecoming of an adult.

1. You really think 30,000 illegals arriving in small boats is ok? As you know I was referring to the predominantly uneducated young males who arrive illegally by boat.

2. They should claim asylum in the first safe country. Why not France?

You throw around a lot of aggression and unfounded allegations of lies including previously a link to some twisted Twitter account.

Brilliant. You get even better as you scramble to stay on your high horse. I've seen better attempts at deflection by children.

I've yet again comprehensively debunked your lies in this thread, using the actual law (you know, not the one you like to pretend exists) and actual government data.

Your response to this comprehensive dismantling of your 'argument' is to tell me I'm throwing around "unfounded allegations".

And to put the icing on the cake you try to accuse me of "aggression" because I'm calling out your lies. Just brilliant.

You're a proven liar in this thread. A functioning adult would own it and fess up, but you continue to dig a hole.

Nice to see you posting again. Been anywhere nice?

It is illegal to enter the country in the way the people on boats do.
But when they immediately claim asylum, a whole set of international asylum seeker laws are invoked.

The UK could technically refuse to offer asylum because they clearly haven’t claimed asylum at their first safe country.

But as the UK is a grown up G7 member, that’s not a good look and would get at least as messy as the current situation.

[911hope]

ghost83 said:

Quite happy to vote reform



Think their policies are bang on

Do you believe they will deliver any of their policies?
Do you realise your vote for them is really for Labour?

[biggbn]

bhstewie said:

And now we have this filth.

Reform UK candidate described autistic people as ‘vegetables’

There really is no gutter they won't crawl down into is there.

This is getting incredible, isn't it?

[LimmerickLad]

Dave200 said:

The policy to dismantle the NHS and replace it with an insurance system reminiscent of the US?

Is that what is stated in their manifesto / contract or your interpretation?

[bad company]

911hope said:

Why are you focusing on 2% of the issue?
Are you a reform candidate?

No. I haven’t decided who to vote for, it’ll be either Conservative or Reform.

[bad company]

Dave200 said:

911hope said:

bad company said:

1. You really think 30,000 illegals arriving in small boats is ok? As you know I was referring to the predominantly uneducated young males who arrive illegally by boat.

2. They should claim asylum in the first safe country. Why not France?

You throw around a lot of aggression and unfounded allegations of lies including previously a link to some twisted Twitter account.

Why are you focusing on 2% of the issue?
Are you a reform candidate?

Because it gets the gammony types (of all ages) all riled up.

‘Gammony Types’!! Have you got a mirror?