Discussion
The reason people are defecting from the Tories to Reform is simply because Reform are saying they are going to do all of the things the Tories said they would do, or should have done, but didn't.
It is unknown whether Reform would be able to deliver. But it is known that the Tories can't.
There is no reason to vote Tory. So a third of Tory voters won't show up at all and another third will vote for Reform. Only the hard core third will still vote Tory.
I don't know why the Reform haters on here are getting so excited. Labour are going to win by a country mile regardless.
If you don't like Reform, and you don't like the idea of a massive Labour majority, what the f
k do you want ?
It is unknown whether Reform would be able to deliver. But it is known that the Tories can't.
There is no reason to vote Tory. So a third of Tory voters won't show up at all and another third will vote for Reform. Only the hard core third will still vote Tory.
I don't know why the Reform haters on here are getting so excited. Labour are going to win by a country mile regardless.
If you don't like Reform, and you don't like the idea of a massive Labour majority, what the f
k do you want ?Nomme de Plum said:
We have an aging population and as a ratio of working to non working it was 4:1 many decades ago and now we are at 3:1 with a projection of 2:1 due to our overly low birth rate.
See Japan for how pear shaped their debt ratio / economy is going?
How will Reform, who advocate no additional immigration deal with a working population who will be overly burdened with tax to support those elderly non working types many who may well vote Reform?
It seems they offer simple but utterly unrealistic policies to complete problems.
Even if we manage to get many of the working age but economically inactive people back to work it will not reinstate the. Higher ratio.
At what point are you going to advocate for stopping importing people. You do know it will have to happen at some point, yes? Or are you someone who thinks it can go on indefinitely and hope it will be the next generations problem.See Japan for how pear shaped their debt ratio / economy is going?
How will Reform, who advocate no additional immigration deal with a working population who will be overly burdened with tax to support those elderly non working types many who may well vote Reform?
It seems they offer simple but utterly unrealistic policies to complete problems.
Even if we manage to get many of the working age but economically inactive people back to work it will not reinstate the. Higher ratio.
fourstardan said:
Nomme de Plum said:
We have an aging population and as a ratio of working to non working it was 4:1 many decades ago and now we are at 3:1 with a projection of 2:1 due to our overly low birth rate.
See Japan for how pear shaped their debt ratio / economy is going?
How will Reform, who advocate no additional immigration deal with a working population who will be overly burdened with tax to support those elderly non working types many who may well vote Reform?
It seems they offer simple but utterly unrealistic policies to complete problems.
Even if we manage to get many of the working age but economically inactive people back to work it will not reinstate the. Higher ratio.
Define the age of elderly non working types?See Japan for how pear shaped their debt ratio / economy is going?
How will Reform, who advocate no additional immigration deal with a working population who will be overly burdened with tax to support those elderly non working types many who may well vote Reform?
It seems they offer simple but utterly unrealistic policies to complete problems.
Even if we manage to get many of the working age but economically inactive people back to work it will not reinstate the. Higher ratio.
I’d actually find it quite amusing to see immigration stopped and then watch the unravelling of public services and much of industry within a few years.
Vanden Saab said:
Nomme de Plum said:
We have an aging population and as a ratio of working to non working it was 4:1 many decades ago and now we are at 3:1 with a projection of 2:1 due to our overly low birth rate.
See Japan for how pear shaped their debt ratio / economy is going?
How will Reform, who advocate no additional immigration deal with a working population who will be overly burdened with tax to support those elderly non working types many who may well vote Reform?
It seems they offer simple but utterly unrealistic policies to complete problems.
Even if we manage to get many of the working age but economically inactive people back to work it will not reinstate the. Higher ratio.
At what point are you going to advocate for stopping importing people. You do know it will have to happen at some point, yes? Or are you someone who thinks it can go on indefinitely or do you hope it will be the next generations problem.See Japan for how pear shaped their debt ratio / economy is going?
How will Reform, who advocate no additional immigration deal with a working population who will be overly burdened with tax to support those elderly non working types many who may well vote Reform?
It seems they offer simple but utterly unrealistic policies to complete problems.
Even if we manage to get many of the working age but economically inactive people back to work it will not reinstate the. Higher ratio.
Lack of housing and adequate services was a chosen Tory policy. We needed 3 years of Austerity post 2010 then we should have invested in our country and got stuff like the now defunct rail project, new hospitals, Nuclear power alongside the other renewables.
Not to build affordable homes was a choice and now we reap the rewards of inflated private rents and expensive property.
I’m currently at my Daughters in the states and their economy is flying and yes both the Government and the individual States do subsidise industries through various mechanisms.
Nomme de Plum said:
Currently 67 when one receives the state pension, albeit some work longer. Doesn’t really work for heavy trade workers though.
I’d actually find it quite amusing to see immigration stopped and then watch the unravelling of public services and much of industry within a few years.
About the same time that the NHS is totally reorganised and needs only a fraction of their current staffing levels......I’d actually find it quite amusing to see immigration stopped and then watch the unravelling of public services and much of industry within a few years.
Nomme de Plum said:
Of course immigration can go on indefinitely. How else would you maintain a viable working economy?
Lack of housing and adequate services was a chosen Tory policy. We needed 3 years of Austerity post 2010 then we should have invested in our country and got stuff like the now defunct rail project, new hospitals, Nuclear power alongside the other renewables.
Not to build affordable homes was a choice and now we reap the rewards of inflated private rents and expensive property.
I’m currently at my Daughters in the states and their economy is flying and yes both the Government and the individual States do subsidise industries through various mechanisms.
Of course... good grief. Lack of housing and adequate services was a chosen Tory policy. We needed 3 years of Austerity post 2010 then we should have invested in our country and got stuff like the now defunct rail project, new hospitals, Nuclear power alongside the other renewables.
Not to build affordable homes was a choice and now we reap the rewards of inflated private rents and expensive property.
I’m currently at my Daughters in the states and their economy is flying and yes both the Government and the individual States do subsidise industries through various mechanisms.
Oilchange said:
Vanden Saab said:
At what point are you going to advocate for stopping importing people.
You make them sound like cargo. 
People want completion to shop at Aldi, Lidl, Morrisons, Tescos etc but resent competition for their job probably not realising that further up the tree the competition is truly fierce but keeps one sharp.
Where I am in Iowa there are no contracts of employment as we know them. Everyone is at large and it works both ways.
Vanden Saab said:
Nomme de Plum said:
Of course immigration can go on indefinitely. How else would you maintain a viable working economy?
Lack of housing and adequate services was a chosen Tory policy. We needed 3 years of Austerity post 2010 then we should have invested in our country and got stuff like the now defunct rail project, new hospitals, Nuclear power alongside the other renewables.
Not to build affordable homes was a choice and now we reap the rewards of inflated private rents and expensive property.
I’m currently at my Daughters in the states and their economy is flying and yes both the Government and the individual States do subsidise industries through various mechanisms.
Of course... good grief. Lack of housing and adequate services was a chosen Tory policy. We needed 3 years of Austerity post 2010 then we should have invested in our country and got stuff like the now defunct rail project, new hospitals, Nuclear power alongside the other renewables.
Not to build affordable homes was a choice and now we reap the rewards of inflated private rents and expensive property.
I’m currently at my Daughters in the states and their economy is flying and yes both the Government and the individual States do subsidise industries through various mechanisms.
OddCat said:
Legacywr said:
Reform can offer whatever they like, they know they won’t get the chance to implement anything, Farage is just using the party to get himself elected to parliament.
And then what ?OddCat said:
Legacywr said:
Reform can offer whatever they like, they know they won’t get the chance to implement anything, Farage is just using the party to get himself elected to parliament.
And then what ?It would be good if a number of constituents ensured he acted on their behalf and took up local causes. I wonder how much luck they will have. Having a constituency office and holding surgeries in a bar of the local pub doesn’t quite cut it.
Nomme de Plum said:
OddCat said:
Legacywr said:
Reform can offer whatever they like, they know they won’t get the chance to implement anything, Farage is just using the party to get himself elected to parliament.
And then what ?It would be good if a number of constituents ensured he acted on their behalf and took up local causes. I wonder how much luck they will have. Having a constituency office and holding surgeries in a bar of the local pub doesn’t quite cut it.
Vanden Saab said:
Nomme de Plum said:
We have an aging population and as a ratio of working to non working it was 4:1 many decades ago and now we are at 3:1 with a projection of 2:1 due to our overly low birth rate.
See Japan for how pear shaped their debt ratio / economy is going?
How will Reform, who advocate no additional immigration deal with a working population who will be overly burdened with tax to support those elderly non working types many who may well vote Reform?
It seems they offer simple but utterly unrealistic policies to complete problems.
Even if we manage to get many of the working age but economically inactive people back to work it will not reinstate the. Higher ratio.
At what point are you going to advocate for stopping importing people. You do know it will have to happen at some point, yes? Or are you someone who thinks it can go on indefinitely and hope it will be the next generations problem.See Japan for how pear shaped their debt ratio / economy is going?
How will Reform, who advocate no additional immigration deal with a working population who will be overly burdened with tax to support those elderly non working types many who may well vote Reform?
It seems they offer simple but utterly unrealistic policies to complete problems.
Even if we manage to get many of the working age but economically inactive people back to work it will not reinstate the. Higher ratio.
In a declining birth rate, ageing population, single economic centre, high-cost economy, these fools genuinely believe that we don't need more tax-paying citizens.
The same people moaning about the NHS denying that we need foreign workers to staff it. Or banging on about the lack of trades, and how unreliable they all are whilst wanting to send all the Poles home.
The more liberal media like to portray this as a people being lied to by the right wing. Personally, I think its beyond being credulous - it's just being thick.
But sure. Nigel and his merry band of populists have the answer. Stop the boats. This rot was epitomised by the Tory Brexit negotiations: things like the ludicrous focus on fishing rights whilst completely ignoring financial services, the engine of the British economy today.
Japan is an abject lesson. And one that no one wishes to learn.
This anti-intellectual, pro-scapegoat move in politics is as dangerous as it is depressing. One of the pro-Reform folk on here got half of it right: Tribalism. I'll go further. We don't discuss policy and it's consequences. We discuss belief. Close the borders, save our culture. Make America Great Again. Le Pen winning France. All these factions have great taglines, and policies designed to appeal to people who don't think very far down the line, but can be easily scared. And that's OK, that's democracy after all. We go with the majority.
The trouble is that, as France shows, the majority are just apathetic and don't vote. That's how the crazies get in. We have successfully neutered centrist politics by addicting our populations to things and easy credit, and blame, rather than political responsibility or a thirst for knowledge. Education is tailored to the lowest achieving, and we would rather furlough people in lockdown and give contracts to our cronies than fix our school system or health service.
The Spitfires over cricket fields Johnny-Foreigner-took-my-job bunch have a long, hard retirement coming. Their champions have identified their lowbrow whimsy, isolated them, cut them off from their neighbouring economies, sowed hate and distrust and emasculated Britain's economy. And the worst of these champions are now the kernel of Reform; a party captained by the cynical, with the bigoted as their footsoldiers.
Yeah, stop the bloody boats. That's going to fix it all.
Edited by Harry Flashman on Tuesday 2nd July 21:35
valiant said:
crankedup5 said:
valiant said:
crankedup5 said:
Plenty of posts aligning Reform U.K immigration policy to racism.
Maybe not racism but maybe ill thought out nonsense perhaps? How does Nige’s policy of using the Royal Marines to land migrants back on French beaches work in practice?Do you think it’s workable or ill thought out, off the cuff nonsense?
What about those who have bought into Reform’s current ‘contract’ and are voting solely based on that? Have they been duped? Do they not realise that Reform’s policies are ‘works in progress’?
Harry Flashman said:
Vanden Saab said:
Nomme de Plum said:
We have an aging population and as a ratio of working to non working it was 4:1 many decades ago and now we are at 3:1 with a projection of 2:1 due to our overly low birth rate.
See Japan for how pear shaped their debt ratio / economy is going?
How will Reform, who advocate no additional immigration deal with a working population who will be overly burdened with tax to support those elderly non working types many who may well vote Reform?
It seems they offer simple but utterly unrealistic policies to complete problems.
Even if we manage to get many of the working age but economically inactive people back to work it will not reinstate the. Higher ratio.
At what point are you going to advocate for stopping importing people. You do know it will have to happen at some point, yes? Or are you someone who thinks it can go on indefinitely and hope it will be the next generations problem.See Japan for how pear shaped their debt ratio / economy is going?
How will Reform, who advocate no additional immigration deal with a working population who will be overly burdened with tax to support those elderly non working types many who may well vote Reform?
It seems they offer simple but utterly unrealistic policies to complete problems.
Even if we manage to get many of the working age but economically inactive people back to work it will not reinstate the. Higher ratio.
In a declining birth rate, ageing population, single economic centre, high-cost economy, these fools genuinely believe that we don't need more tax-paying citizens.
The same people moaning about the NHS denying that we need foreign workers to staff it. Or banging on about the lack of trades, and how unreliable they all are whilst wanting to send all the Poles home.
The more liberal media like to portray this as a people being lied to by the right wing. Personally, I think its beyond being credulous - it's just being thick.
But sure. Nigel and his merry band of populists have the answer. Stop the boats. This rot was epitomised by the Tory Brexit negotiations: things like the ludicrous focus on fishing rights whilst completely ignoring financial services, the engine of the British economy today.
Japan is an abject lesson. And one that no one wishes to learn.
This anti-intellectual, pro-scapegoat move in politics is as dangerous as it is depressing. One of the pro-Reform folk on here got half of it right: Tribalism. I'll go further. We don't discuss policy and it's consequences. We discuss belief. Close the borders, save our culture. Make America Great Again. Le Pen winning France. All these factions have great taglines, and policies designed to appeal to people who don't think very far down the line, but can be easily scared. And that's OK, that's democracy after all. We go with the majority.
The trouble is that, as France shows, the majority are just apathetic and don't vote. That's how the crazies get in. We have successfully neutered centrist politics by addicting our populations to things and easy credit, and blame, rather than political responsibility or a thirst for knowledge. Education is tailored to the lowest achieving, and we would rather furlough people in lockdown and give contracts to our cronies than fix our school system or health service.
The Spitfires over cricket fields Johnny-Foreigner-took-my-job bunch have a long, hard retirement coming. Their champions have identified their lowbrow whimsy, isolated them, cut them off from their neighbouring economies, sowed hate and distrust and emasculated Britain's economy. And the worst of these champions are now the kernel of Reform; a party captained by the cynical, with the bigoted as their footsoldiers.
Yeah, stop the bloody boats. That's going to fix it all.
Edited by Harry Flashman on Tuesday 2nd July 21:35
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