Discussion
Amazing the stuff that gets dredged up near the end of elections by the parties with the most to loose....
Reform are "dangerous" because they've turned up with their own menu to the party and everyone is now wondering why the two main parties have fairly identical policies mainly centred around taking more money off you to spend on various things you don't care or want. Quick! Let's tell everyone they're racists so nobody starts talking about their ideas.
Reform are "dangerous" because they've turned up with their own menu to the party and everyone is now wondering why the two main parties have fairly identical policies mainly centred around taking more money off you to spend on various things you don't care or want. Quick! Let's tell everyone they're racists so nobody starts talking about their ideas.
Edited by MDMetal on Monday 1st July 23:56
skwdenyer said:
Vanden Saab said:
The most racist person I know is a Sikh, as I’ve said before.Rivenink said:
skwdenyer said:
The idea that only white people can be racist is just part of the faux-victimsation routine and is demonstrably false. Japan isn't looking at a population crises because it's got a liberal, woke, diversity friendly culture. You see a picture of a bloke who has a different skin colour and different politics and you are now conjuring up frankly blatantly racist uncle tom tropes to justify why he may have a different view of life from you.
Utter nonsense.
Shame on you both.
Edited by Ridgemont on Tuesday 2nd July 00:24
This is literally what James Cleverly was complaining about in the article I shared earlier.
Like it or not, the outgoing Conservative Govt has been one of the most diverse in our countries history. We have our first minority ethnic PM, and have had multiple Black and Asian politicians in positions of high office.
But some people on the left wing cannot seem to cope with minorities that are both successful and socially conservative.
Ethnic minorities that agree with the left need to be defended from the nasty racist right wing. The ones that disagree are not doing it properly.
This failure to accept social mobility and freedom of choice is the main reason why I have lost faith in the Labour movement. They don’t actually seem to want the poor or disadvantaged to succeed. They want them to stay reliant on the state, because their power is based on that dependency. If you are working class and / or from an ethnic minority, and you become successful, you also become the enemy. They don’t want to support you, they want to tear you down,
Like it or not, the outgoing Conservative Govt has been one of the most diverse in our countries history. We have our first minority ethnic PM, and have had multiple Black and Asian politicians in positions of high office.
But some people on the left wing cannot seem to cope with minorities that are both successful and socially conservative.
Ethnic minorities that agree with the left need to be defended from the nasty racist right wing. The ones that disagree are not doing it properly.
This failure to accept social mobility and freedom of choice is the main reason why I have lost faith in the Labour movement. They don’t actually seem to want the poor or disadvantaged to succeed. They want them to stay reliant on the state, because their power is based on that dependency. If you are working class and / or from an ethnic minority, and you become successful, you also become the enemy. They don’t want to support you, they want to tear you down,
Ridgemont said:
Rivenink said:
skwdenyer said:
The idea that only white people can be racist is just part of the faux-victimsation routine and is demonstrably false. Japan isn't looking at a population crises because it's got a liberal, woke, diversity friendly culture. You see a picture of a bloke who has a different skin colour and different politics and you are now conjuring up frankly blatantly racist uncle tom tropes to justify why he may have a different view of life from you.
Utter nonsense.
Shame on you both.
Edited by Ridgemont on Tuesday 2nd July 00:24
I’m not conjuring up tropes; I’m explaining from direct personal experience that not all racists are white. Do you disagree?
skwdenyer said:
Ridgemont said:
Rivenink said:
skwdenyer said:
The idea that only white people can be racist is just part of the faux-victimsation routine and is demonstrably false. Japan isn't looking at a population crises because it's got a liberal, woke, diversity friendly culture. You see a picture of a bloke who has a different skin colour and different politics and you are now conjuring up frankly blatantly racist uncle tom tropes to justify why he may have a different view of life from you.
Utter nonsense.
Shame on you both.
Edited by Ridgemont on Tuesday 2nd July 00:24
I’m not conjuring up tropes; I’m explaining from direct personal experience that not all racists are white. Do you disagree?
king you. I have have no idea what what that has to do with the picture of the Sikh which was posted from reform and why you decided to go into a weird old cul de sac about a racist bloke you know. Unless you are saying Sikhs are racist? But that would be idiotic no?Do you get the point now? For gods sake.
Elysium said:
This is literally what James Cleverly was complaining about in the article I shared earlier.
Like it or not, the outgoing Conservative Govt has been one of the most diverse in our countries history. We have our first minority ethnic PM, and have had multiple Black and Asian politicians in positions of high office.
But some people on the left wing cannot seem to cope with minorities that are both successful and socially conservative.
Ethnic minorities that agree with the left need to be defended from the nasty racist right wing. The ones that disagree are not doing it properly.
This failure to accept social mobility and freedom of choice is the main reason why I have lost faith in the Labour movement. They don’t actually seem to want the poor or disadvantaged to succeed. They want them to stay reliant on the state, because their power is based on that dependency. If you are working class and / or from an ethnic minority, and you become successful, you also become the enemy. They don’t want to support you, they want to tear you down,
Couldn’t agree more. It’s also why a significant section of the Hindu vote is going conservative, but it also worries me because there is an obvious balkanisation/segregated politics going on. Not good.Like it or not, the outgoing Conservative Govt has been one of the most diverse in our countries history. We have our first minority ethnic PM, and have had multiple Black and Asian politicians in positions of high office.
But some people on the left wing cannot seem to cope with minorities that are both successful and socially conservative.
Ethnic minorities that agree with the left need to be defended from the nasty racist right wing. The ones that disagree are not doing it properly.
This failure to accept social mobility and freedom of choice is the main reason why I have lost faith in the Labour movement. They don’t actually seem to want the poor or disadvantaged to succeed. They want them to stay reliant on the state, because their power is based on that dependency. If you are working class and / or from an ethnic minority, and you become successful, you also become the enemy. They don’t want to support you, they want to tear you down,
Elysium said:
This is literally what James Cleverly was complaining about in the article I shared earlier.
Like it or not, the outgoing Conservative Govt has been one of the most diverse in our countries history. We have our first minority ethnic PM, and have had multiple Black and Asian politicians in positions of high office.
But some people on the left wing cannot seem to cope with minorities that are both successful and socially conservative.
Ethnic minorities that agree with the left need to be defended from the nasty racist right wing. The ones that disagree are not doing it properly.
This failure to accept social mobility and freedom of choice is the main reason why I have lost faith in the Labour movement. They don’t actually seem to want the poor or disadvantaged to succeed. They want them to stay reliant on the state, because their power is based on that dependency. If you are working class and / or from an ethnic minority, and you become successful, you also become the enemy. They don’t want to support you, they want to tear you down,
It is hard to understand how you arrive at this conclusion. The last 14 years have destroyed social mobility, not enhanced it. The tremendous progress we experienced has been rapidly eroded. Freedom of choice to pursue education is being curtailed. Investment in schools has gone backwards. Like it or not, the outgoing Conservative Govt has been one of the most diverse in our countries history. We have our first minority ethnic PM, and have had multiple Black and Asian politicians in positions of high office.
But some people on the left wing cannot seem to cope with minorities that are both successful and socially conservative.
Ethnic minorities that agree with the left need to be defended from the nasty racist right wing. The ones that disagree are not doing it properly.
This failure to accept social mobility and freedom of choice is the main reason why I have lost faith in the Labour movement. They don’t actually seem to want the poor or disadvantaged to succeed. They want them to stay reliant on the state, because their power is based on that dependency. If you are working class and / or from an ethnic minority, and you become successful, you also become the enemy. They don’t want to support you, they want to tear you down,
The IFS recently reported that social mobility in the UK is today harder than at any point in over half a century. That situation has arrived only recently, and is getting worse, not better.
How exactly do you think this Labour “dependency” worked? My experience was that under Blair people had far more hope and support to advance.
Ridgemont said:
Good for fking you. I have have no idea what what that has to do with the picture of the Sikh which was posted from reform and why you decided to go into a weird old cul de sac about a racist bloke you know. Unless you are saying Sikhs are racist? But that would be idiotic no?
Do you get the point now? For gods sake.
I was replying to the poster who replied to the picture, not to the picture itself.king you. I have have no idea what what that has to do with the picture of the Sikh which was posted from reform and why you decided to go into a weird old cul de sac about a racist bloke you know. Unless you are saying Sikhs are racist? But that would be idiotic no?Do you get the point now? For gods sake.
skwdenyer said:
Ridgemont said:
Good for fking you. I have have no idea what what that has to do with the picture of the Sikh which was posted from reform and why you decided to go into a weird old cul de sac about a racist bloke you know. Unless you are saying Sikhs are racist? But that would be idiotic no?
Do you get the point now? For gods sake.
I was replying to the poster who replied to the picture, not to the picture itself.king you. I have have no idea what what that has to do with the picture of the Sikh which was posted from reform and why you decided to go into a weird old cul de sac about a racist bloke you know. Unless you are saying Sikhs are racist? But that would be idiotic no?Do you get the point now? For gods sake.
Excellent.
MDMetal said:
Amazing the stuff that gets dredged up near the end of elections by the parties with the most to loose....
Reform are "dangerous" because they've turned up with their own menu to the party and everyone is now wondering why the two main parties have fairly identical policies mainly centred around taking more money off you to spend on various things you don't care or want. Quick! Let's tell everyone they're racists so nobody starts talking about their ideas.
Reform are "dangerous" because they've turned up with their own menu to the party and everyone is now wondering why the two main parties have fairly identical policies mainly centred around taking more money off you to spend on various things you don't care or want. Quick! Let's tell everyone they're racists so nobody starts talking about their ideas.
MDMetal said:
Amazing the stuff that gets dredged up near the end of elections by the parties with the most to loose....
Reform are "dangerous" because they've turned up with their own menu to the party and everyone is now wondering why the two main parties have fairly identical policies mainly centred around taking more money off you to spend on various things you don't care or want. Quick! Let's tell everyone they're racists so nobody starts talking about their ideas.
hah, indeed.Reform are "dangerous" because they've turned up with their own menu to the party and everyone is now wondering why the two main parties have fairly identical policies mainly centred around taking more money off you to spend on various things you don't care or want. Quick! Let's tell everyone they're racists so nobody starts talking about their ideas.
JagLover said:
MDMetal said:
Amazing the stuff that gets dredged up near the end of elections by the parties with the most to loose....
Reform are "dangerous" because they've turned up with their own menu to the party and everyone is now wondering why the two main parties have fairly identical policies mainly centred around taking more money off you to spend on various things you don't care or want. Quick! Let's tell everyone they're racists so nobody starts talking about their ideas.
Reform are "dangerous" because they've turned up with their own menu to the party and everyone is now wondering why the two main parties have fairly identical policies mainly centred around taking more money off you to spend on various things you don't care or want. Quick! Let's tell everyone they're racists so nobody starts talking about their ideas.
Their fiscal policies make even less sense than those of the other parties, at least that's the view of the IFS and Tax Policy Associates.
It's pretty clear Reform rushed to find candidates and did an abysmal job of even basic screening. That doesn't help their image of being a sensible new alternative.
The latest reports are of more than a dozen of their candidates making fairly inappropriate comments about the monarchy. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13589851/...
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/refor...
Some great lines here
Labour and the Conservatives have each had one or two candidates say or do something stupid (out of 630), how many is it for Reform? I haven't been counting.
Some great lines here
Labour and the Conservatives have each had one or two candidates say or do something stupid (out of 630), how many is it for Reform? I haven't been counting.
rscott said:
Reform don't seem too keen to discuss the details of their policies though - especially after Farage's Royal Marines comment showed he has no idea how they would return anyone arriving by small boat.
Their fiscal policies make even less sense than those of the other parties, at least that's the view of the IFS and Tax Policy Associates.
It's pretty clear Reform rushed to find candidates and did an abysmal job of even basic screening. That doesn't help their image of being a sensible new alternative.
The latest reports are of more than a dozen of their candidates making fairly inappropriate comments about the monarchy. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13589851/...
And you think that, for example, Labour candidates never say anything like that?Their fiscal policies make even less sense than those of the other parties, at least that's the view of the IFS and Tax Policy Associates.
It's pretty clear Reform rushed to find candidates and did an abysmal job of even basic screening. That doesn't help their image of being a sensible new alternative.
The latest reports are of more than a dozen of their candidates making fairly inappropriate comments about the monarchy. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13589851/...
You think that the media report everything, in an unbiased way too?
Think about it.
Fast and Spurious said:
And you think that, for example, Labour candidates never say anything like that?
You think that the media report everything, in an unbiased way too?
Think about it.
OK, I've thought about it. Out of the daily Newspapers, The Mail, Express, Telegraph, Times & Sun are all right wing. The Independent & FT are in the middle & the Mirror is left wing. So, five vs two. Presumably then, the right biased media, motivated against Labour should be able to provide you with an equivalent stream of Labour PPC's spewing up similarly awful comments to shore up your premise. Right?You think that the media report everything, in an unbiased way too?
Think about it.
President Merkin said:
OK, I've thought about it. Out of the daily Newspapers, The Mail, Express, Telegraph, Times & Sun are all right wing. The Independent & FT are in the middle & the Mirror is left wing. So, five vs two. Presumably then, the right biased media, motivated against Labour should be able to provide you with an equivalent stream of Labour PPC's spewing up similarly awful comments to shore up your premise. Right?
What are the interests of the owners of those newspapers and their most important advertisers?We already know that Murdoch is backing Labour as he usually backs the winning side, so that is two of your "right wing" papers right there.
The Daily Mail and Telegraph seem busy trying to shore up the Tory vote, but more on the basis that they can be ready to take back power, when it is their turn to continue the agenda, than anything else.
This notion that there is an ideological motivated "right wing" press that report on the basis of their ideology seems very flawed. They pander to their readers to keep them reading and serve the money men and promote their interests.
Reform were useful in ensuring a Labour victory when they were polling at 10-15% but became too dangerous once some polls showed them at around 20%. Hence the sudden hatchet jobs, including by the supposed "right-wing" press.
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