Reform UK

[Dagnir]

s1962a said:

Rishi was called a by reform members, and they have racists and nazi sympathisers within their midst. Their whole premise is based on being anti Islam, and anti immigrant. Yet they had a muslim guy giving a great speech at their forum. What generalisation is false?

You're still not separating the individual from the effect of the demographic en masse.


They are separate conversations.


One is about personal characteristics and the other about an effect on society.

[119]

Reform have made a fair few gains.

There also seems to be a fair few terrified people in here.

[don'tbesilly]

[redacted]

[bitchstewie]

Vanden Saab said:

There are all sorts of nasty people connected to every party for different reasons and if the same scrutiny was shone on all parties you would see it but it seems only Reform gets this treatment.

Keep telling yourself that.

Always the victim.

[biggbn]

[redacted]

[turbobloke]

bhstewie said:

Vanden Saab said:

There are all sorts of nasty people connected to every party for different reasons and if the same scrutiny was shone on all parties you would see it but it seems only Reform gets this treatment.

Keep telling yourself that.

Always the victim.

Reform are under the microscope they all should be under.
Without similar levels of scrutiny elsewhere there's no evidence available to say VS is wrong. Hence the waffle ^

[bitchstewie]

turbobloke said:

Reform are under the microscope they all should be under.
Without similar levels of scrutiny elsewhere there's no evidence available to say VS is wrong. Hence the waffle ^

Quite right they should all be under it and they are.

Don't want to have to defend yourself from accusations you're voting for a party of racist grifters?

How about call it out when you see it and don't vote for a party literally putting them forward as candidates.

It's not hard.

[anonymous-user]

Vanden Saab said:

The whole racism thing is a load of bks

There has been some pretty funny AI generated images on social media being spread by racists. I'm not sure it's all bks

[biggbn]

bhstewie said:

Vanden Saab said:

There are all sorts of nasty people connected to every party for different reasons and if the same scrutiny was shone on all parties you would see it but it seems only Reform gets this treatment.

Keep telling yourself that.

Always the victim.

I actually agree with VS. There are undoubtedly appaling people attached, attracted to, or standing for each party, and whatever side you support, these people are loudly booed from 'tother lot in order to discredit the whole because of a small sum of its parts. Lefty/marxist/communist, terms I'm sure VS and others have never used to discredit anyone on the left, fascist, racist, bigoted, terms I'm SURE nobody on the left has used to discredit the Tories/Reform whatever. It does seem Reform is today's Bete Noire but remember the treatment Corbyn's labour got? The same scrutiny is never applied in an equitable fashion, it is always applied more to the one that frightens the establishment the most.

From a commie/lefty/Marxist...

[chrispmartha]

[redacted]

[bitchstewie]

biggbn said:

I actually agree with VS. There are undoubtedly appaling people attached, attracted to, or standing for each party, and whatever side you support, these people are loudly booed from 'tother lot in order to discredit the whole because of a small sum of its parts. Lefty/marxist/communist, terms I'm sure VS and others have never used to discredit anyone on the left, fascist, racist, bigoted, terms I'm SURE nobody on the left has used to discredit the Tories/Reform whatever. It does seem Reform is today's Bete Noire but remember the treatment Corbyn's labour got? The same scrutiny is never applied in an equitable fashion, it is always applied more to the one that frightens the establishment the most.

From a commie/lefty/Marxist...

Nasty people yes.

As a percentage? I'm comfortable we've seen far more with Reform than we have and would with the more mainstream parties.

You can only say "it's the vetting" for so long before it's entirely fair to ask why people with those views are drawn to your party like flies to st.

[biggbn]

bhstewie said:

biggbn said:

I actually agree with VS. There are undoubtedly appaling people attached, attracted to, or standing for each party, and whatever side you support, these people are loudly booed from 'tother lot in order to discredit the whole because of a small sum of its parts. Lefty/marxist/communist, terms I'm sure VS and others have never used to discredit anyone on the left, fascist, racist, bigoted, terms I'm SURE nobody on the left has used to discredit the Tories/Reform whatever. It does seem Reform is today's Bete Noire but remember the treatment Corbyn's labour got? The same scrutiny is never applied in an equitable fashion, it is always applied more to the one that frightens the establishment the most.

From a commie/lefty/Marxist...

Nasty people yes.

As a percentage? I'm comfortable we've seen far more with Reform than we have and would with the more mainstream parties.

You can only say "it's the vetting" for so long before it's entirely fair to ask why people with those views are drawn to your party like flies to st.

We've covered why earlier in the thread Stewie, VS and I disagree on my reasoning and that's cool. But, I'd suggest that many of the recent, and distant Tory policies and utterances have been equally calculated to appeal to voters of a harder line realpolitik. All parties do it...I'm afraid they ultimately don't care who votes for them because the vote of a Marxist anti semite (for arguments sake) is just as equal and valuable as that of a far right racist (again, picked to illuminate a point). At this time of year, the parties are csting their nets as wide and far as they can. Nobody checks the ideologies of the person who casts the vote only the mark on the voting card...

[President Merkin]

If there is one defining characteristic of Reform & for that matter, the Tories it is not casting their nets far and wide. If anything it's casting them very narrowly indeed.

[biggbn]

President Merkin said:

If there is one defining characteristic of Reform & for that matter, the Tories it is not casting their nets far and wide. If anything it's casting them very narrowly indeed.

Perhaps I did not use the correct terms. National service, sick note Britain, Rwanda, Royal Marines escorting immigrants back to France...this rhetoric is designed to capture disenfranchised voters who might vote for an independent or not at all because they are disgusted with the Tories ineptitude and or inability to 'deliver the country back to them'. They live all over the country and, surprisingly, can come from any demographic, so, far and wide. The populist politics is designed to re-engage the disenfranchised with rabble rousing soundbites.

[jshell]

Reform are challenging the Uniparty hegemony. THAT is why they'll see prolonged and sustained attacks from the existing cartel.

As for racism, Farage is always keen to point out that he supports properly administered immigration policies as the country has been better for contributing immigrants.

[biggbn]

jshell said:

Reform are challenging the Uniparty hegemony. THAT is why they'll see prolonged and sustained attacks from the existing cartel.

As for racism, Farage is always keen to point out that he supports properly administered immigration policies as the country has been better for contributing immigrants.

Yup, but he does also use ambiguous language that could appeal to those on the fringes. And so we go round again.

[jshell]

biggbn said:

jshell said:

Reform are challenging the Uniparty hegemony. THAT is why they'll see prolonged and sustained attacks from the existing cartel.

As for racism, Farage is always keen to point out that he supports properly administered immigration policies as the country has been better for contributing immigrants.

Yup, but he does also use ambiguous language that could appeal to those on the fringes. And so we go round again.

Thing is, many of us predicted a strong reaction to the politics of the last 15 years. And, here it comes. I didn't want it, but I completely understand it. When Orban showed that document outlining the EU's plan to import and distribute 1,000,000 migrants each year, distributing to each country based on GDP, then many people wanted to protest against that. People saw, as per the lies around the US Southern border, that this is a fairly globally planned demographic shift without explanation or justification. Those actions appeared to many to follow the so-called conspiracies of the 'Karlegi Plan' & 'Great Replacement theory'.

[tangerine_sedge]

jshell said:

Reform are challenging the Uniparty hegemony. THAT is why they'll see prolonged and sustained attacks from the existing cartel.

As for racism, Farage is always keen to point out that he supports properly administered immigration policies as the country has been better for contributing immigrants.

It's got nothing to do with First Past The Post politics (Uniparty hegemony ffs - what CT website did you dredge that up from).

It's all about the impact of the GFC->Austerity->BREXIT->Inflation doom train that the current Tory party has driven for the last 14+ years. People suffering from wage stagnation and lowering standard of living pressures, rolled the dice on BREXIT because they were led to believe that it would solve their problems. The current frustration is because that didn't actually solve anything, as the EU was never the problem. They are now believing, like desperate gamblers on a losing streak, that more dice rolling will fix things properly this time. Clue : it won't, as it's the same charlatans operating the Casino.

[tangerine_sedge]

jshell said:

Thing is, many of us predicted a strong reaction to the politics of the last 15 years. And, here it comes. I didn't want it, but I completely understand it. When Orban showed that document outlining the EU's plan to import and distribute 1,000,000 migrants each year, distributing to each country based on GDP, then many people wanted to protest against that. People saw, as per the lies around the US Southern border, that this is a fairly globally planned demographic shift without explanation or justification. Those actions appeared to many to follow the so-called conspiracies of the 'Karlegi Plan' & 'Great Replacement theory'.

The "Are all conspiracy theorists thick" thread is thataway --->

<---- The "tin foil hat makers" are thataway...

[captain_cynic]

tangerine_sedge said:

The "Are all conspiracy theorists thick" thread is thataway --->

<---- The "tin foil hat makers" are thataway...

Why am I not surprised that CTers are both Brexiteers and Reform supporters.