Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?

[biggbn]

I am alright Jack said:

bhstewie said:

Can't call out the openly racist and homophobic filth those Reform candidates come out with.

Desperately trying to make something out of saying Sunak doesn't get normal people.

Pathetic.

Nobody's "Desperately trying to make something out of saying Sunak doesn't get normal people" they are pointing out that no matter what words may be used people will interpret them differently either by accident or malice.

Forgetting how stupidly ridiculous this statement is, what do you think, "not all reform voters are racist but all racists vote reform" do you think it is "filth" or is it perfectly acceptable because the poster didn't actually call anybody a racist?

Did anyone actually suggest that IAJ?

[MDMetal]

Reform are absolutely not going to be elected so wether their ideas are costed perfectly or not is only as relevant as your views in wether the greens or the lib dems are perfectly coated (or too be honest even the Torys)

I definitely subscribe to the pendulum effect idea. Voting reform forces all parties to re-evaluate where they think the centre ground really is, it looks suspiciously like it's not where the mainstream parties think it is. If the end result is a smashed Tory party that rebuilds itself to be an actual Tory party that's a win from my POV. Things tend not to improve on their own.

[Wills2]

Watched the rally at the NEC, it's just a lot of rabble rousing and complaining (to be fair there is a lot to complain about after Brexit) but that's all he's got just like he was on the run up to the referendum, he's a political arsonist, nothing more.

[biggbn]

MDMetal said:

Reform are absolutely not going to be elected so wether their ideas are costed perfectly or not is only as relevant as your views in wether the greens or the lib dems are perfectly coated (or too be honest even the Torys)

I definitely subscribe to the pendulum effect idea. Voting reform forces all parties to re-evaluate where they think the centre ground really is, it looks suspiciously like it's not where the mainstream parties think it is. If the end result is a smashed Tory party that rebuilds itself to be an actual Tory party that's a win from my POV. Things tend not to improve on their own.

Good, fair post, although id contend that parties should all have costed manifestos. I'd love to see the Tories reform, no pun intended, as a broad church with wider appeal. They are a historically great parry, one of the most important and significant of modern times and it is sad to see the parody, actually beyond parody, they have allowed themselves to become. Still, they chose to play chess with the pigeon and not just shoo it away....

[I am alright Jack]

biggbn said:

Did anyone actually suggest that IAJ?

yes, It's been quoted a few times in this thread although not sure who said it first.

[rscott]

Farage's crowd at the NEC is quite impressive, but nothing compared to Binface's...

[biggbn]

I am alright Jack said:

biggbn said:

Did anyone actually suggest that IAJ?

yes, It's been quoted a few times in this thread although not sure who said it first.

I am surprised at that. It is obvious that some people are racist, bigoted, whatever, and no party has exclusive appeal to them. Every party will have some undesirable, for whatever reasons, characters casting a vote for them. Some court these votes more than others I feel, end of the day, every vote cast is equal.

[I am alright Jack]

biggbn said:

I am surprised at that. It is obvious that some people are racist, bigoted, whatever, and no party has exclusive appeal to them. Every party will have some undesirable, for whatever reasons, characters casting a vote for them. Some court these votes more than others I feel, end of the day, every vote cast is equal.

Yep. As Farage has only been back in the chair, so to speak, a short time it's far to early for him to have done much to clean things up, but I like to think that in time he will.

[Killboy]

rscott said:

Farage's crowd at the NEC is quite impressive, but nothing compared to Binface's...

I like Binface. I think his Manifesto is a lot better thought out than Reform's, and I've not yet seen his canvassers being accused of being massive racists either.

https://www.countbinface.com/manifesto

[smn159]

I am alright Jack said:

biggbn said:

I am surprised at that. It is obvious that some people are racist, bigoted, whatever, and no party has exclusive appeal to them. Every party will have some undesirable, for whatever reasons, characters casting a vote for them. Some court these votes more than others I feel, end of the day, every vote cast is equal.

Yep. As Farage has only been back in the chair, so to speak, a short time it's far to early for him to have done much to clean things up, but I like to think that in time he will.

Farage doesn't want to 'clean things up'. He wants to normalise racist attitudes

[biggbn]

smn159 said:

I am alright Jack said:

biggbn said:

I am surprised at that. It is obvious that some people are racist, bigoted, whatever, and no party has exclusive appeal to them. Every party will have some undesirable, for whatever reasons, characters casting a vote for them. Some court these votes more than others I feel, end of the day, every vote cast is equal.

Yep. As Farage has only been back in the chair, so to speak, a short time it's far to early for him to have done much to clean things up, but I like to think that in time he will.

Farage doesn't want to 'clean things up'. He wants to normalise racist attitudes

I think his language is calculated and is being used to attract that type of voter who will be, I'd hope, be in a minority across the board, but they all count. It also has a degree of ambiguity about it designed to give him plausible deniability when subsequently challenged. Johnson used similar tactics.
Others disagree on this, and that's cool. I've been wrong many times before!!

[uk66fastback]

smn159 said:

I am alright Jack said:

biggbn said:

I am surprised at that. It is obvious that some people are racist, bigoted, whatever, and no party has exclusive appeal to them. Every party will have some undesirable, for whatever reasons, characters casting a vote for them. Some court these votes more than others I feel, end of the day, every vote cast is equal.

Yep. As Farage has only been back in the chair, so to speak, a short time it's far to early for him to have done much to clean things up, but I like to think that in time he will.

Farage doesn't want to 'clean things up'. He wants to normalise racist attitudes

That’s just BS. The key to attracting more support for Reform is to appeal to a broader base … what has he ever said that means he wants to ‘normalise racist attitudes’ - it sounded good in your head as you typed it, but it means nothing.

[skwdenyer]

Vanden Saab said:

All those racists cheering and clapping the err Muslim speaker.

I know nothing about that specific speaker, but the most racist British person I know is a Sikh, closely followed by a variety of Muslims. That’s before we consider the likes of Patel and Braverman and whether they are or are not racist.

[MDMetal]

smn159 said:

I am alright Jack said:

biggbn said:

I am surprised at that. It is obvious that some people are racist, bigoted, whatever, and no party has exclusive appeal to them. Every party will have some undesirable, for whatever reasons, characters casting a vote for them. Some court these votes more than others I feel, end of the day, every vote cast is equal.

Yep. As Farage has only been back in the chair, so to speak, a short time it's far to early for him to have done much to clean things up, but I like to think that in time he will.

Farage doesn't want to 'clean things up'. He wants to normalise racist attitudes

Source?

[Vanden Saab]

biggbn said:

I mentioned the uncosted manifesto, indeed compared it to Corbyns uncosted one that was widely derided, yet, tumbleweed.....must be making the right kind of promises with the imaginary money?

According to the IFS all the manifestos are imaginary, with much bigger uncosted elements in those planning net zero by 2030. Not sure why Reform would be singled out tbf.

[biggbn]

Vanden Saab said:

biggbn said:

I mentioned the uncosted manifesto, indeed compared it to Corbyns uncosted one that was widely derided, yet, tumbleweed.....must be making the right kind of promises with the imaginary money?

According to the IFS all the manifestos are imaginary, with much bigger uncosted elements in those planning net zero by 2030. Not sure why Reform would be singled out tbf.

This is a thread about Reform. I did say earler that I believe all party's manifestos should be fully costed, and mentioned Corbyn's wish list..hardly singling out Reform? Perhaps you missed that bit? The whole thing is smoke and mirrors and we the people lap it up. We are complicit in the state of the political classes, not only do we condone the actions of the various parties by our silence, many of us go to great lengths to actually defend them.

[swisstoni]

All this talk about manifestos. At best they are wish lists designed to appeal to whoever the party is targeting. They are relevant right up to Thursday.

After which, the whole circus moves on regardless.

[119]

As I can’t be bothered to look, does anyone know if any historic manifesto pledges actually taken place once the party is in?

[biggbn]

119 said:

As I can’t be bothered to look, does anyone know if any historic manifesto pledges actually taken place once the party is in?

You illustrate my point succinctly and clearly. Why do we put up with these cheats and liars?

[ChocolateFrog]

TonyToniTone said:

robscot said:

Hilarious tonight at a Reform gig

Farage doing his nut, and terrible attempt to take it down

https://x.com/bydonkeys/status/1807141707571454290...

Thought they were supposed to keep that stuff until after the press have left.