Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?
Discussion
biggbn said:
bad company said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
A spokesman for Reform says there's no room for racists in the party. I assume they just put their name on a waiting list then?
The latest opinion polls Sar showing 14% support for Reform. That’s a LOT of racists.NuckyThompson said:
Every single party talks of ‘stop the boats’ in the sense of stop the migrants and stop the gangs profiteering never ‘let’s stop human beings dying in the channel’
Some parties' candidates say they'd slaughter immigrants arriving on small boats and have their families taken out. b
hstewie said:
hstewie said:m3jappa said:
The worlds gone fking bananas tbh.
Funnily enough the word you used to describe travellers tends to get censored on here I think you just spelt it wrong so I won't quote the whole post.king bananas tbh. I'm going to guess that the chap calling Sunak the P word probably didn't base what he said off much more than skin colour.
You can question Islamic values just as you can question Christian or any other values but if you do it using the language we've seen used people might think there's a little more to it than simply questioning values.
The world hasn't gone bananas just because people can't say exactly what they think without consequences.
I find it strange to label that racist when for example no one seems to question or have any issue with the sikhs or hindus who are by and large not white.
Calling someone a derogatory term based on their skin colour is racist and there is no need for it because that is genuinely disliking someone because of their colour or where they are from which is simply odd imo.
The desire for a reduction in immigration isn't inherently racist. There are many reasons (imagined or otherwise) why someone may want less people entering a country.
But taking issue with immigration based on the skin colour of those arriving is racist.
Racism isn't new, and we know that there are a lot of people in this country who despise ethnic minorities.
Nothing complex about it.
But taking issue with immigration based on the skin colour of those arriving is racist.
Racism isn't new, and we know that there are a lot of people in this country who despise ethnic minorities.
Nothing complex about it.
NuckyThompson said:
Is the Australian points based system in regards to immigration racist?
I do wonder how reform shake that image. If they said we want all the immigration we can get if it’s doctors, nurses, engineers and experts in renewables but not unskilled economic migrants because we’ve got plenty of unskilled people that can work here is it possible to be done without being labelled racist?
Yeah i seem to remember and maybe Canada only let people in if they held the type of skill they were short of?I do wonder how reform shake that image. If they said we want all the immigration we can get if it’s doctors, nurses, engineers and experts in renewables but not unskilled economic migrants because we’ve got plenty of unskilled people that can work here is it possible to be done without being labelled racist?
bad company said:
I’m still undecided and may elect to spoil my ballot paper:-
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Reform. Some good policies imo but are they properly costed? I like Nigel Farage though, he and the party have been very badly treated by the BBC. The very biased Question Time audience being a clear example. I’m a bit put off by the numbers of racist supporters.
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No they haven’t. It’s just the media are finally holding them to the same scrutiny as the other parties..
Reform. Some good policies imo but are they properly costed? I like Nigel Farage though, he and the party have been very badly treated by the BBC. The very biased Question Time audience being a clear example. I’m a bit put off by the numbers of racist supporters.
.
Reform and Farage have had a very easy ride since they formed. They were seen as a novelty, a disruption amd given far more airtime than their polling numbers merited at the time.
Now that polling numbers have climbed and Farage decided to stand, a more critical look has been taken. So we see their fantasy manifesto torn to shreds over its costing and implementation, we see remarks Farage made in the past questioned and him asked to explain them. We see the media hold his own party to account for the failings of some of its supporters and candidates and as we saw on QT the other night, pushed on policy (like the Marines comment) where he was asked to explain in detail how he would achieve his goals.
This is nothing more than what’s asked of the other parties and if Reform wants to be seen as a major force in British politics then it must be able to stand up and explain itself and not get into a hissy fit and scream “unfair” when a question or audience appear hostile.
If Reform wants to be seen more than just a fringe party then it seriously needs to get its s
t together. It lacks professionalism, organisation and detail. Now that the spotlight is on them to a greater degree, it has to able to handle proper scrutiny.Killboy said:
Elysium said:
This company sold the undercover footage to Channel 4
https://www.leesorrellmedia.com/
You can see on their website that they did something similar in 2019 targeting the Brexit Party:
https://www.leesorrellmedia.com/brexit-party-under...
And in 2015 against UKIP
https://news.sky.com/story/ukip-suspends-candidate...
Edit: it is being suggested that Andrew Parker may have been brought into this by the organisation Hope Not Hate:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_not_Hate
Interesting that this group was founded by an investigative journalist from the same area as Lee Sorrel and that they have a long history of opposing UKIP and Farage.
That’s interesting. Were the racists in 2019 and 2015 also acting? Why would they get suspended for acting?https://www.leesorrellmedia.com/
You can see on their website that they did something similar in 2019 targeting the Brexit Party:
https://www.leesorrellmedia.com/brexit-party-under...
And in 2015 against UKIP
https://news.sky.com/story/ukip-suspends-candidate...
Edit: it is being suggested that Andrew Parker may have been brought into this by the organisation Hope Not Hate:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_not_Hate
Interesting that this group was founded by an investigative journalist from the same area as Lee Sorrel and that they have a long history of opposing UKIP and Farage.
The 2015 example exposed a racist candidate, it looks as if 2019 and 2024 are leaner pickings where they had to look to people on the fringe to find extreme views.
Obviously racism still exists in today’s society, but it has gone underground. People with these views know that they are not supposed to voice them. The easiest way to get them to reveal themselves is to convince them they are talking to someone who shares their views and that it is safe to ‘open up’.
It seems reasonably likely that the journalists responsible might use actors with undercover experience like Andrew Parker to create this impression of a safe space, I do wonder if somehow the acting found its way into the story to make it more interesting.
119 said:
biggbn said:
bad company said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
A spokesman for Reform says there's no room for racists in the party. I assume they just put their name on a waiting list then?
The latest opinion polls Sar showing 14% support for Reform. That’s a LOT of racists.
For clarity, tongue in cheek that last bit.....Elysium said:
Good joke, but actually quite a good question as well.
The 2015 example exposed a racist candidate, it looks as if 2019 and 2024 are leaner pickings where they had to look to people on the fringe to find extreme views.
Obviously racism still exists in today’s society, but it has gone underground. People with these views know that they are not supposed to voice them. The easiest way to get them to reveal themselves is to convince them they are talking to someone who shares their views and that it is safe to ‘open up’.
It seems reasonably likely that the journalists responsible might use actors with undercover experience like Andrew Parker to create this impression of a safe space, I do wonder if somehow the acting found its way into the story to make it more interesting.
So they've just been exposed? Good on channel 4 then.The 2015 example exposed a racist candidate, it looks as if 2019 and 2024 are leaner pickings where they had to look to people on the fringe to find extreme views.
Obviously racism still exists in today’s society, but it has gone underground. People with these views know that they are not supposed to voice them. The easiest way to get them to reveal themselves is to convince them they are talking to someone who shares their views and that it is safe to ‘open up’.
It seems reasonably likely that the journalists responsible might use actors with undercover experience like Andrew Parker to create this impression of a safe space, I do wonder if somehow the acting found its way into the story to make it more interesting.
valiant said:
No they haven’t. It’s just the media are finally holding them to the same scrutiny as the other parties.
Reform and Farage have had a very easy ride since they formed. They were seen as a novelty, a disruption amd given far more airtime than their polling numbers merited at the time.
Now that polling numbers have climbed and Farage decided to stand, a more critical look has been taken. So we see their fantasy manifesto torn to shreds over its costing and implementation, we see remarks Farage made in the past questioned and him asked to explain them. We see the media hold his own party to account for the failings of some of its supporters and candidates and as we saw on QT the other night, pushed on policy (like the Marines comment) where he was asked to explain in detail how he would achieve his goals.
This is nothing more than what’s asked of the other parties and if Reform wants to be seen as a major force in British politics then it must be able to stand up and explain itself and not get into a hissy fit and scream “unfair” when a question or audience appear hostile.
If Reform wants to be seen more than just a fringe party then it seriously needs to get its st together. It lacks professionalism, organisation and detail. Now that the spotlight is on them to a greater degree, it has to able to handle proper scrutiny.
This is obviously true. However, when Farage's fantasy worldview - let's use the marines to return people to France etc. comes under the scrutiny it merits, the instant reaction within the Reform and Farage have had a very easy ride since they formed. They were seen as a novelty, a disruption amd given far more airtime than their polling numbers merited at the time.
Now that polling numbers have climbed and Farage decided to stand, a more critical look has been taken. So we see their fantasy manifesto torn to shreds over its costing and implementation, we see remarks Farage made in the past questioned and him asked to explain them. We see the media hold his own party to account for the failings of some of its supporters and candidates and as we saw on QT the other night, pushed on policy (like the Marines comment) where he was asked to explain in detail how he would achieve his goals.
This is nothing more than what’s asked of the other parties and if Reform wants to be seen as a major force in British politics then it must be able to stand up and explain itself and not get into a hissy fit and scream “unfair” when a question or audience appear hostile.
If Reform wants to be seen more than just a fringe party then it seriously needs to get its s
t together. It lacks professionalism, organisation and detail. Now that the spotlight is on them to a greater degree, it has to able to handle proper scrutiny.m3jappa said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:m3jappa said:
The worlds gone fking bananas tbh.
Funnily enough the word you used to describe travellers tends to get censored on here I think you just spelt it wrong so I won't quote the whole post.king bananas tbh. I'm going to guess that the chap calling Sunak the P word probably didn't base what he said off much more than skin colour.
You can question Islamic values just as you can question Christian or any other values but if you do it using the language we've seen used people might think there's a little more to it than simply questioning values.
The world hasn't gone bananas just because people can't say exactly what they think without consequences.
I find it strange to label that racist when for example no one seems to question or have any issue with the sikhs or hindus who are by and large not white.
Calling someone a derogatory term based on their skin colour is racist and there is no need for it because that is genuinely disliking someone because of their colour or where they are from which is simply odd imo.
MDMetal said:
Equally trying to claim Farage is somehow Putin's chum because he wisely pointed out that giving a madman with a giant arm a reason to go to war might not be the best plan is somewhat akin to suggesting that telling your friend not to piss in the school bullys chips somehow makes him the bullys bestest chum
Brilliant ! 
Anyone who can't see this is being deliberately stupid.
Killboy said:
Elysium said:
Good joke, but actually quite a good question as well.
The 2015 example exposed a racist candidate, it looks as if 2019 and 2024 are leaner pickings where they had to look to people on the fringe to find extreme views.
Obviously racism still exists in today’s society, but it has gone underground. People with these views know that they are not supposed to voice them. The easiest way to get them to reveal themselves is to convince them they are talking to someone who shares their views and that it is safe to ‘open up’.
It seems reasonably likely that the journalists responsible might use actors with undercover experience like Andrew Parker to create this impression of a safe space, I do wonder if somehow the acting found its way into the story to make it more interesting.
So they've just been exposed? Good on channel 4 then.The 2015 example exposed a racist candidate, it looks as if 2019 and 2024 are leaner pickings where they had to look to people on the fringe to find extreme views.
Obviously racism still exists in today’s society, but it has gone underground. People with these views know that they are not supposed to voice them. The easiest way to get them to reveal themselves is to convince them they are talking to someone who shares their views and that it is safe to ‘open up’.
It seems reasonably likely that the journalists responsible might use actors with undercover experience like Andrew Parker to create this impression of a safe space, I do wonder if somehow the acting found its way into the story to make it more interesting.
119 said:
biggbn said:
bad company said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
A spokesman for Reform says there's no room for racists in the party. I assume they just put their name on a waiting list then?
The latest opinion polls Sar showing 14% support for Reform. That’s a LOT of racists.bhstewie said:
hstewie said: People are carrying on as if the actor chap is the only issue here.
Take him out of things.
There's plenty of other filth both in that video and widely reported.
Plus we have Farage saying that the electorate should still vite for 3 candidates who are no longer Reform candidates in order to show support for Reform.Take him out of things.
There's plenty of other filth both in that video and widely reported.
So encouraging people to vote for people with obnoxious views in order to show support for a party that doesn't have obnoxious views.....
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: People are carrying on as if the actor chap is the only issue here.
Take him out of things.
There's plenty of other filth both in that video and widely reported.
Because it’s a crutch to hang onto that means that everything else can’t be questioned.Take him out of things.
There's plenty of other filth both in that video and widely reported.
Besides, aren’t C4 standing by their story? All I’ve seen is Reform and some amateur armchair sleuths putting 2+2 together and making their up answers from that.
It will all come out in the end no doubt and if C4 have been duped or conspired in some funny business then they’ll have to answer for that themselves but as there’s been no definitive answer yet yelling ‘conspiracy’ at this stage is very Trumpian.
biggbn said:
Why I said 'rarely gonna vote labour' Deej. I agree there is an overlap as you describe but in comparison to the disenfranchised Tories its much smaller
Voting behaviour is a complex issue, the Tory party started their ‘blue collar Conservative’ movement over ten years ago, presumably as recognition of an old phenomenon once labelled the ‘working class Tories’. I guess Labour has the ‘Champagne Socialists’, ultimately it’s people who support a party that doesn’t actually support them I think the blue collar Conservatives are always those more likely to vote Reform than Labour, so while Labour will lose votes to Reform, the Tories will lose more. Some of the racist stuff flying around is OTT, all parties have an issue as does society at large, but Reform is a haven for them, which is why the analysis shows something like 68%. Suck it up.
OddCat said:
MDMetal said:
Equally trying to claim Farage is somehow Putin's chum because he wisely pointed out that giving a madman with a giant arm a reason to go to war might not be the best plan is somewhat akin to suggesting that telling your friend not to piss in the school bullys chips somehow makes him the bullys bestest chum
Brilliant ! Anyone who can't see this is being deliberately stupid.
I'd have thought he'd be keen on sovereign nations going their own way...
OddCat said:
MDMetal said:
Equally trying to claim Farage is somehow Putin's chum because he wisely pointed out that giving a madman with a giant arm a reason to go to war might not be the best plan is somewhat akin to suggesting that telling your friend not to piss in the school bullys chips somehow makes him the bullys bestest chum
Brilliant ! Anyone who can't see this is being deliberately stupid.
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