Reform UK

[Vasco]

bad company said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

A spokesman for Reform says there's no room for racists in the party. I assume they just put their name on a waiting list then?

The latest opinion polls Sar showing 14% support for Reform. That’s a LOT of racists.

.....but many voting for Reform have no involvement with racism. They are protesting, mainly against the Conservatives.

[President Merkin]

bad company said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

A spokesman for Reform says there's no room for racists in the party. I assume they just put their name on a waiting list then?

The latest opinion polls Sar showing 14% support for Reform. That’s a LOT of racists.

It is. Don't you think that's a shame?

You're suggesting it's all a bit overblown but within that number, you have a significant number of actual racists. I'm told regularly Reform are eyeing up 2029. Farage has an inbuilt problem taking his company masquerading as a party beyond that number without divesting it of the racist stuff. You in particular have proven to be one of the impervious to criticism Reform supporters and that's for you but I can assure you that the 10-15% range is where it's staying if it carries on in this vein. And therein lies the paradox.

It either waters down its core message, which it will never do while Farage is at the wheel or it boots him for someone less overtly distasteful and loses its charimsatic but puddle shallow driving force & goes the way of UKIP, whose current leader, I doubt anyone could name wthout looking it up.

[wc98]

DeejRC said:

And that Biggie is where you have things wrong. It was the trick Farage pulled with UKIP and the Brexit mob. He very much DOES park his tanks on Labours front yard, but it’s the old white working man’s club Labour yard. The place that modern London centric metropolitan Labour likes to pretend no longer exists or they don’t care about. Farage is very very good at it at stealing votes from the Tories and Labour.
The only reason SKS is able to ignore him atm and Labour strategists flagrantly not worry about him is a very brutal political calculation. A very good calculation tbh, it’s a properly nailed down and controller strategy. They know they will lose votes to Reform, but they can afford to because - and frankly lose a lot of them - both the Tory party and the SNP have hit the implode button. They are working to a plan that the SNP are giving them a minimum of 15-20 seats back and that the Tories are giving them 50-100 seats back by their troubles. It gives SKS huge grace to ignore Farage and “lose” those voters to him because the brutal electoral maths say the TP will be worse hit by them.
But then SKS has Mandy on hand for the job and Mandy knows wtf he is doing when it comes to political operations as opposed to the muppets who appear to be failing to do so elsewhere.

Spot on. The only person i know that will admit they are racist is a life long Labour voter and i know a fair few others that vote both Labour and SNP that will happily come out with stuff beyond the pale when they think they are in similar company. None of them would have anything to do with anything linked to Farage, he is just another stuck up southerner with delusions of grandeur to them.

Apart from the first one the others have only come to light in the last couple of years and on two occasions people have been taken aback by my reaction to things they have said to me, obviously expecting a very different response to the one they got. Pissed me right off hearing things i haven't heard for 20 plus years from people i would never have imagined would say them.
Maybe we aren't as far along the road of acceptance of all as i thought.

[bitchstewie]

Vasco said:

.....but many voting for Reform have no involvement with racism. They are protesting, mainly against the Conservatives.

By voting for and enabling candidates of the type and with the views we've seen highlighted on this thread.

[wc98]

President Merkin said:

It is. Don't you think that's a shame?

You're suggesting it's all a bit overblown but within that number, you have a significant number of actual racists. I'm told regularly Reform are eyeing up 2029. Farage has an inbuilt problem taking his company masquerading as a party beyond that number without divesting it of the racist stuff. You in particular have proven to be one of the impervious to criticism Reform supporters and that's for you but I can assure you that the 10-15% range is where it's staying if it carries on in this vein. And therein lies the paradox.

It either waters down its core message, which it will never do while Farage is at the wheel or it boots him for someone less overtly distasteful and loses its charimsatic but puddle shallow driving force & goes the way of UKIP, whose current leader, I doubt anyone could name wthout looking it up.

Trouble is all the people that voted to leave the EU have had years of being labelled racists and i think many just zone out now every time they hear or see the word racist without bothering to look and see if it might be true on a case by case basis. Bit like the boy that cried wolf , when it really did matter no one was listening anymore. There are a fair few from grass roots supporters all the way to the top of various political parties that would benefit from some introspection, they won't of course, why would they being so morally superior.

[PRTVR]

bhstewie said:

Vasco said:

.....but many voting for Reform have no involvement with racism. They are protesting, mainly against the Conservatives.

By voting for and enabling candidates of the type and with the views we've seen highlighted on this thread.

So a vote for Labour is a vote for antisemitism ?

[anonymous-user]

So the people protest voting by voting for reform, are they going to be protest voting for reform again in 2029? If they go back to their political homes I'm not sure Reform is the political force others are making it out to be.

[bitchstewie]

PRTVR said:

So a vote for Labour is a vote for antisemitism ?

If you use the logic used by many of the people on this thread who are proudly voting for Reform yes it is.

Under Corbyn that was largely true given the EHRC investigation into the party.

I've already made the point that people go all Witchfinder General when it's "the left" or Muslims being antisemitic but can't utter a word of condemnation when it's Farage or a Reform candidate.

I don't think Labour are perfect now but I think Starmer has made clear he's determined to root that filth out and he seems to be doing so.

The difference in my opinion is turning a blind eye to it and saying "nothing to with me" until your arm is forced v attempting to tackle it head on.

It comes down to who you think is attracting racists and why and who is taking it more seriously when it's pointed out.

[biggbn]

DeejRC said:

biggbn said:

turbobloke said:

Vanden Saab said:

robscot said:

Hilarious tonight at a Reform gig

Farage doing his nut, and terrible attempt to take it down

https://x.com/bydonkeys/status/1807141707571454290...

Very good, and yet more votes once the media plaster it everywhere. You guys are doing his job for him.

Sure thing, no lessons learned from the USA in 2016 or UK 2019. Same old fail from the illiberal left.

The latest Electoral Calculus / MRP polling data take is Reform 3 percentage -points (share 21%) above the Conservatives ( share 18%) corresponding to 29 seats. If Adolf's tache is flashed and predicted seats go over 30, the twist angle in some PH gussets could go critical.

Surely if the 'illiberal left' are behind this it's a masterstroke. Those likely to vote for Reform were rarely gonna vote Labour. More traction and publicity for Reform means less votes for the Tories?

And that Biggie is where you have things wrong. It was the trick Farage pulled with UKIP and the Brexit mob. He very much DOES park his tanks on Labours front yard, but it’s the old white working man’s club Labour yard. The place that modern London centric metropolitan Labour likes to pretend no longer exists or they don’t care about. Farage is very very good at it at stealing votes from the Tories and Labour.
The only reason SKS is able to ignore him atm and Labour strategists flagrantly not worry about him is a very brutal political calculation. A very good calculation tbh, it’s a properly nailed down and controller strategy. They know they will lose votes to Reform, but they can afford to because - and frankly lose a lot of them - both the Tory party and the SNP have hit the implode button. They are working to a plan that the SNP are giving them a minimum of 15-20 seats back and that the Tories are giving them 50-100 seats back by their troubles. It gives SKS huge grace to ignore Farage and “lose” those voters to him because the brutal electoral maths say the TP will be worse hit by them.
But then SKS has Mandy on hand for the job and Mandy knows wtf he is doing when it comes to political operations as opposed to the muppets who appear to be failing to do so elsewhere.

Why I said 'rarely gonna vote labour' Deej. I agree there is an overlap as you describe but in comparison to the disenfranchised Tories its much smaller

[bitchstewie]

m3jappa said:

The worlds gone fking bananas tbh.

Funnily enough the word you used to describe travellers tends to get censored on here I think you just spelt it wrong so I won't quote the whole post.

I'm going to guess that the chap calling Sunak the P word probably didn't base what he said off much more than skin colour.

You can question Islamic values just as you can question Christian or any other values but if you do it using the language we've seen used people might think there's a little more to it than simply questioning values.

The world hasn't gone bananas just because people can't say exactly what they think without consequences.

[biggbn]

bad company said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

A spokesman for Reform says there's no room for racists in the party. I assume they just put their name on a waiting list then?

The latest opinion polls Sar showing 14% support for Reform. That’s a LOT of racists.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that ALL Reform supporters are racists?

[NuckyThompson]

That’s a good point there, vote reform and be labelled a racist, although there are plenty or racists who vote for the other parties.

Is the Australian points based system in regards to immigration racist?

I do wonder how reform shake that image. If they said we want all the immigration we can get if it’s doctors, nurses, engineers and experts in renewables but not unskilled economic migrants because we’ve got plenty of unskilled people that can work here is it possible to be done without being labelled racist?

Every single party talks of ‘stop the boats’ in the sense of stop the migrants and stop the gangs profiteering never ‘let’s stop human beings dying in the channel’

[bad company]

I’m still undecided and may elect to spoil my ballot paper:-

I’m a natural and long term Conservative voter and ex party member. I generally approve of their policies but they failed to deliver on previous promises. Also some terrible leadership over the years. I’m also very dissatisfied with the local conservative candidate James Cleverly.

Labour. The policies appear ok at first glance but very worried about taxes they haven’t mentioned and could increase. Also worried about likely increased union power and loony left influence once they’re in power. Kier Starmer seems bland and uninspiring.

Lib/Dem. They’ve said they’d raise taxes which is at least honest. Ed Davey comes across as a clown to me. What on earth is he doing being photographed falling into the water. Does he really think that’ll win him votes? Also they clearly want to re join the EU. That’s a big no from me.

Reform. Some good policies imo but are they properly costed? I like Nigel Farage though, he and the party have been very badly treated by the BBC. The very biased Question Time audience being a clear example. I’m a bit put off by the numbers of racist supporters.

Green. Unelectable imo though they have my gratitude and respect for influencing the major parties to adopt some green policies.

[119]

biggbn said:

bad company said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

A spokesman for Reform says there's no room for racists in the party. I assume they just put their name on a waiting list then?

The latest opinion polls Sar showing 14% support for Reform. That’s a LOT of racists.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that ALL Reform supporters are racists?

Plenty on here seem to be.

[anonymous-user]

NuckyThompson said:

Every single party talks of ‘stop the boats’ in the sense of stop the migrants and stop the gangs profiteering never ‘let’s stop human beings dying in the channel’

Some parties' candidates say they'd slaughter immigrants arriving on small boats and have their families taken out.

[m3jappa]

bhstewie said:

m3jappa said:

The worlds gone fking bananas tbh.

Funnily enough the word you used to describe travellers tends to get censored on here I think you just spelt it wrong so I won't quote the whole post.

I'm going to guess that the chap calling Sunak the P word probably didn't base what he said off much more than skin colour.

You can question Islamic values just as you can question Christian or any other values but if you do it using the language we've seen used people might think there's a little more to it than simply questioning values.

The world hasn't gone bananas just because people can't say exactly what they think without consequences.

The thing is you can't question islamic values, thats called being islamaphobic. i don't know why? maybe because by and large muslims aren't white so its got the racist label.

I find it strange to label that racist when for example no one seems to question or have any issue with the sikhs or hindus who are by and large not white.

Calling someone a derogatory term based on their skin colour is racist and there is no need for it because that is genuinely disliking someone because of their colour or where they are from which is simply odd imo.

[Tonberry]

The desire for a reduction in immigration isn't inherently racist. There are many reasons (imagined or otherwise) why someone may want less people entering a country.

But taking issue with immigration based on the skin colour of those arriving is racist.

Racism isn't new, and we know that there are a lot of people in this country who despise ethnic minorities.

Nothing complex about it.

[119]

NuckyThompson said:

Is the Australian points based system in regards to immigration racist?

I do wonder how reform shake that image. If they said we want all the immigration we can get if it’s doctors, nurses, engineers and experts in renewables but not unskilled economic migrants because we’ve got plenty of unskilled people that can work here is it possible to be done without being labelled racist?

Yeah i seem to remember and maybe Canada only let people in if they held the type of skill they were short of?

[valiant]

bad company said:

I’m still undecided and may elect to spoil my ballot paper:-
.

Reform. Some good policies imo but are they properly costed? I like Nigel Farage though, he and the party have been very badly treated by the BBC. The very biased Question Time audience being a clear example. I’m a bit put off by the numbers of racist supporters.

.

No they haven’t. It’s just the media are finally holding them to the same scrutiny as the other parties.

Reform and Farage have had a very easy ride since they formed. They were seen as a novelty, a disruption amd given far more airtime than their polling numbers merited at the time.

Now that polling numbers have climbed and Farage decided to stand, a more critical look has been taken. So we see their fantasy manifesto torn to shreds over its costing and implementation, we see remarks Farage made in the past questioned and him asked to explain them. We see the media hold his own party to account for the failings of some of its supporters and candidates and as we saw on QT the other night, pushed on policy (like the Marines comment) where he was asked to explain in detail how he would achieve his goals.

This is nothing more than what’s asked of the other parties and if Reform wants to be seen as a major force in British politics then it must be able to stand up and explain itself and not get into a hissy fit and scream “unfair” when a question or audience appear hostile.

If Reform wants to be seen more than just a fringe party then it seriously needs to get its st together. It lacks professionalism, organisation and detail. Now that the spotlight is on them to a greater degree, it has to able to handle proper scrutiny.

[Elysium]

Killboy said:

Elysium said:

This company sold the undercover footage to Channel 4

https://www.leesorrellmedia.com/

You can see on their website that they did something similar in 2019 targeting the Brexit Party:

https://www.leesorrellmedia.com/brexit-party-under...

And in 2015 against UKIP

https://news.sky.com/story/ukip-suspends-candidate...

Edit: it is being suggested that Andrew Parker may have been brought into this by the organisation Hope Not Hate:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_not_Hate

Interesting that this group was founded by an investigative journalist from the same area as Lee Sorrel and that they have a long history of opposing UKIP and Farage.

That’s interesting. Were the racists in 2019 and 2015 also acting? Why would they get suspended for acting?

Good joke, but actually quite a good question as well.

The 2015 example exposed a racist candidate, it looks as if 2019 and 2024 are leaner pickings where they had to look to people on the fringe to find extreme views.

Obviously racism still exists in today’s society, but it has gone underground. People with these views know that they are not supposed to voice them. The easiest way to get them to reveal themselves is to convince them they are talking to someone who shares their views and that it is safe to ‘open up’.

It seems reasonably likely that the journalists responsible might use actors with undercover experience like Andrew Parker to create this impression of a safe space, I do wonder if somehow the acting found its way into the story to make it more interesting.