Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?

[wc98]

JagLover said:

Well if they were it would be by whoever was doing the undercover footage and whoever knew what they were doing. More plausible than being signed off all the way up the organisation, so fair point.

Still big news though, if true, and perhaps the worst example of election interference I can think of.

There is no way on earth i could see channel 4 doing that, no way. I could see a group such as led by donkeys or a few others doing it. If it turns out to be the case the bloke was a plant acting out a scene i think that will be me done with voting for good and not just this election as it will be quite clear (and i am not sure it isn't the case already) that many of the issues facing this country aren't down to politicians but the electorate.

Lets face it, a large number of UK citizens voted for a Tory party led by Boris Johnson, a man that couldn't find a condom never mind his own arse with both hands, all that remains is to see how bad politicians can get before people say enough is enough and stop voting for them.

[Baroque attacks]

bhstewie said:

He said "You see that fking degenerate flag on the front bonnet? What are the old bill doing promoting that crap? They should be out catching nonces not promoting the fkers.".

Most of your post is you trying to come up with some charitable interpretation of what that filth meant.

You can have genuine concerns without calling a whole community "nonces".

It's gross.

Stop making excuses for it.

Surprised they didn’t stray into trying to use religion as an excuse tbh.

[tangerine_sedge]

C4 are denying that they hired him, or that they even knew he was an actor before filming him. The actor himself has also stated that he was never hired by C4 and has apparently been a reform activist for months...

C4 are probably very embarassed that they didn't do due diligence on his background before broadcasting (for this very reason), but I don't think that negates the content as much as Farage is understandably claiming.

There is overwhelming evidence from reform candidates and party activists through to the content of pro-reform messaging across social media to recognise that reform has a huge problem with attracting the 'wrong kind of people' to their party.

[911hope]

tangerine_sedge said:

C4 are denying that they hired him, or that they even knew he was an actor before filming him. The actor himself has also stated that he was never hired by C4 and has apparently been a reform activist for months...

C4 are probably very embarassed that they didn't do due diligence on his background before broadcasting (for this very reason), but I don't think that negates the content as much as Farage is understandably claiming.

There is overwhelming evidence from reform candidates and party activists through to the content of pro-reform messaging across social media to recognise that reform has a huge problem with attracting the 'wrong kind of people' to their party.

68% of reform fans state immigration as their top priority. Not too difficult to understand that this has a high correlation with racist attitudes.

[Blue62]

911hope said:

68% of reform fans state immigration as their top priority. Not too difficult to understand that this has a high correlation with racist attitudes.

Of course, it’s hardly a surprise but just like Brexiters not all of them are racists, but it helps if you are.

[andy43]

Anybody want to hire an actor who can do a cockney accent?
Mandy.com seems to be a genuine website with thousands of talents for rent.
This is my Mandy website search result
Andrew Parker is halfway down. Watch the video clips on his profile. One is well spoken queens English. One is the voice in the channel 4 footage - the clips titled ‘rough speaking’. Which is his real voice? If he’s not a Del Boy knock off why would he use that ‘rough speaking’ accent when he’s not in a paid part? To fit in in Clacton?

Sky have an article claiming he’s saying he got ‘goaded’ into it and was a fool.
https://news.sky.com/story/reform-canvasser-in-pm-...
Believable? I don’t think so.

Edited by andy43 on Saturday 29th June 09:07

[President Merkin]

Elections always throw up weird events. This takes the biscuit so far though. Channel four are hiring actors & making Reform look racist because the global elites are scared of Nigel taking -checks notes- Clacton.

Some of you reform boys are about twenty miles beyond absurd but the entertainment is pure gold.

[andy43]

President Merkin said:

Elections always throw up weird events. This takes the biscuit so far though. Channel four are hiring actors & making Reform look racist because the global elites are scared of Nigel taking -checks notes- Clacton.

Some of you reform boys are about twenty miles beyond absurd but the entertainment is pure gold.

It does smell a bit. The channel 4 thing not Clacton - I’ve never been.
I’ll wait and see but I’m wondering at this point whether this has lost reform votes or the exact opposite - it’ll depend if anyone can find this Parker and get him on film.

[S600BSB]

Blue62 said:

911hope said:

68% of reform fans state immigration as their top priority. Not too difficult to understand that this has a high correlation with racist attitudes.

Of course, it’s hardly a surprise but just like Brexiters not all of them are racists, but it helps if you are.

That’s fair.

[rscott]

andy43 said:

Anybody want to hire an actor who can do a cockney accent?
Mandy.com seems to be a genuine website with thousands of talents for rent.
This is my Mandy website search result
Andrew Parker is halfway down. Watch the video clips on his profile. One is well spoken queens English. One is the voice in the channel 4 footage - the clips titled ‘rough speaking’. Which is his real voice? If he’s not a Del Boy knock off why would he use that ‘rough speaking’ accent when he’s not in a paid part? To fit in in Clacton?

Sky have an article claiming he’s saying he got ‘goaded’ into it and was a fool.
https://news.sky.com/story/reform-canvasser-in-pm-...
Believable? I don’t think so.

Edited by andy43 on Saturday 29th June 09:07

His rough speaking accent is far more common in Clacton than his normal one, so perhaps he thought he'd fit in better.
I'm in the next constituency and sometimes put on my stab vest and venture over there

[andy43]

rscott said:

andy43 said:

Anybody want to hire an actor who can do a cockney accent?
Mandy.com seems to be a genuine website with thousands of talents for rent.
This is my Mandy website search result
Andrew Parker is halfway down. Watch the video clips on his profile. One is well spoken queens English. One is the voice in the channel 4 footage - the clips titled ‘rough speaking’. Which is his real voice? If he’s not a Del Boy knock off why would he use that ‘rough speaking’ accent when he’s not in a paid part? To fit in in Clacton?

Sky have an article claiming he’s saying he got ‘goaded’ into it and was a fool.
https://news.sky.com/story/reform-canvasser-in-pm-...
Believable? I don’t think so.

Edited by andy43 on Saturday 29th June 09:07

His rough speaking accent is far more common in Clacton than his normal one, so perhaps he thought he'd fit in better.
I'm in the next constituency and sometimes put on my stab vest and venture over there

It does look like there’s a stab vest under there in the footage actually…

[rscott]

Just had the leaflet through from our local Reform candidate - the only thing it tells us about him is his name. No background info, no details about what he would do for this area, just the national talking points.
It doesn't even have a picture of the candidate.

Compare that to all the others we've had. They all clearly explain who the candidate is, mention local issues they want to address and most explain their connection to the area. Reform's leaflet just talks about stopping the boats, net zero immigration and has photos of Tice and Farage.

[DaveCWK]

Can the police not just arrest this guy for what he said about Rishi (isnt that a hate crime?), & find out in interview what the truth is?

It does all really really smell.

[rscott]

andy43 said:

rscott said:

andy43 said:

Anybody want to hire an actor who can do a cockney accent?
Mandy.com seems to be a genuine website with thousands of talents for rent.
This is my Mandy website search result
Andrew Parker is halfway down. Watch the video clips on his profile. One is well spoken queens English. One is the voice in the channel 4 footage - the clips titled ‘rough speaking’. Which is his real voice? If he’s not a Del Boy knock off why would he use that ‘rough speaking’ accent when he’s not in a paid part? To fit in in Clacton?

Sky have an article claiming he’s saying he got ‘goaded’ into it and was a fool.
https://news.sky.com/story/reform-canvasser-in-pm-...
Believable? I don’t think so.

Edited by andy43 on Saturday 29th June 09:07

His rough speaking accent is far more common in Clacton than his normal one, so perhaps he thought he'd fit in better.
I'm in the next constituency and sometimes put on my stab vest and venture over there

It does look like there’s a stab vest under there in the footage actually…

Local police once said the reason we don't see any police in the rest of the Tendring area is that they're all busy trying to stop Clacton residents stabbing each other!

[turbobloke]

rscott said:

Just had the leaflet through from our local Reform candidate - the only thing it tells us about him is his name. No background info, no details about what he would do for this area, just the national talking points.
It doesn't even have a picture of the candidate.

CVs aren't usualy blessed with a picture these days, in general a photo shouldn't be included if applying for jobs throughout the UK to help prevent discrimination, MP is a UK job.

Lord Ashcroft polling feedback from voters in focus groups points to voters acting on national issues on July 4th rather than the 'local' qualitiy of a sitting candidate...it's not unusual.

[oyster]

Vanden Saab said:

oyster said:

Ridgemont said:

I have to say I won’t be voting Reform but I’m pretty appalled by the selection process for the audience on the BBC tonight.
It’s ludicrous. Multiple questioners effectively calling him a racist. The format is like watching a shooting gallery. Fairplay to him for ploughing on.

Assuming they poll 15%-20%, then 80%-85% will not support them. And I suspect a large proportion of that majority will not be ambivalent towards them.

Stands to reason that they will get a rougher ride.

You have to admire the thinking that has gone into this. By this logic the Greens at 5% would be unable to get a word in for the heckling and abuse.
Thinking that the majority of the 80% hate him just confirms your own bias. The trouble is the BBC think the same way which is why it continues to happen.
Farage knew exactly what was coming and has no doubt gained a few more voters who see it and with the C4 debacle understand what is going on. Another win for him once again enabled by those trying to do the opposite.

See the bit I've now put in bold.

My logic clearly does not apply to the Greens too. Most people are ambivalent, perhaps even sympathetic, to the Greens. Hence little heckling and abuse. Same for the Lib Dems (bar those who are not ambivalent towards them for student fees, for example).

Farage may well have garnered a few extra votes for being seen in such an entrenched and defensive position, but it will only amount to a handful of extra votes.

[andy43]

DaveCWK said:

Can the police not just arrest this guy for what he said about Rishi (isnt that a hate crime?), & find out in interview what the truth is?

It does all really really smell.

It’s the perfect hate crime for 2024.
Not just alleged hurty words, there’s video proof, motive, the whole lot. Bang to rights.
Police should have had him nicked yesterday.
Sky should have interviewed him on video.
Anyone seen anything on this in a newspaper today?
It was front and centre headlines yesterday…

[Elysium]

bhstewie said:

Elysium said:

I don’t think the person involved was using that language to describe the entire LGBTQ community. That is an extrapolation.

Although most people are entirely comfortable with gender diversity there is a widespread belief, reinforced by the Cass Review, that trans activism has gone too far.

Most of this concern is about potential harm caused to children and there have been examples of inappropriate conduct in this area, most notably in the US with quite bizzare stories of ‘drag queen story hours’ in schools.

I think that is what this person is talking about. Based specifically on the meaning of the word they have chosen.

This does not just affect reform. The conservatives have their own policies aimed at this ideology and Labour is obviously wrestling with its views on the matter. Meanwhile, at this point the pride flag for some represents a disputed political belief, which taxpayer funded organisations like the police should not be funding.

I think you are aware of this, but have chosen to ignore the nuances of the issue and instead engage in faux outrage.

If you want to understand why Reform is getting traction you need to understand these issues. This is not the territory of racists and bigots. Otherwise reasonable people feel that this is wrong and they want to be listened to. Reform are doing that.

He said "You see that fking degenerate flag on the front bonnet? What are the old bill doing promoting that crap? They should be out catching nonces not promoting the fkers.".

Most of your post is you trying to come up with some charitable interpretation of what that filth meant.

You can have genuine concerns without calling a whole community "nonces".

It's gross.

Stop making excuses for it.

I have not excused anything. I have simply said what I think this person meant.

Your interpretation of his statement fails basic comprehension. You are obviously highly committed to a particular political party and your ongoing modus operandi is to find some questionable activity and amplify it so that you can feign outrage toward the entirety of that party. You have done it with Farage and Russian disinformation. You have done it with the conservatives and betting and you are doing it again now.

Firstly, I don’t agree with this persons views or their language. I’ve already said that, but I’ve noticed that one of your other tactics is to pretend that a lack of condemnation means agreement.

So what does the statement mean?

1. Firstly, he makes no comment about the LGBTQ community. He criticises the pride flag. I get that you will probably argue that an attack on the flag is an attack on the community as a whole, but that’s a false equivalence and an obvious extrapolation.

2. He says that the police should not promote the pride flag, which is not a particularly unusual view:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/07/uk-pol...

3. He effectively says that the pride flag promotes ‘nonces’. That is a specific word for a sexual criminal, typically one whose crimes involve children.

4. You have made an illogical leap from this persons stated view that “the pride flag promotes some people who indulge in criminal sexual behaviour” to “everyone represented by the pride flag is a criminal”

The obvious question is why would anyone possibly think the pride flag promotes this sort of criminality. The answer, as I have already said, is likely to be found in some of the disquiet around trans ideology. Again this is not a particularly fringe view and it is in fact one of few dividing lines between the Conservatives and Labour in this election.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tra...

It surely cannot have escaped your notice that we have seen stories like this in recent news, which have helped fuel this disquiet:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/21148435/transgender...

The Sun said:

Transgender woman with Mike Tyson face tattoo GUILTY of raping two vulnerable mums with ‘her penis’

As I have said, if you want to understand why Reform is gaining popularity, you need to understand why people have these sort of views. I don’t think this persons comments are going to do anything at all to damage Reforms campaign.

Doubtless you will ignore that again and continue to argue that by explaining this I am somehow endorsing it,

[valiant]

DaveCWK said:

Can the police not just arrest this guy for what he said about Rishi (isnt that a hate crime?), & find out in interview what the truth is?

It does all really really smell.

Essex police are investigating whether a crime has been committed or not.

[dai1983]

Would those "providing balance*" take a few grand off a national broadcaster to say racist stuff on camera knowing it would tarnish your life and career forever with potential added police involvement?

Thought not.

• AKA excusing any reform negativity and even parroting mental conspiracy theories.

Edited by dai1983 on Saturday 29th June 09:38