David Tennant - Kemi Badenoch

[Castrol for a knave]

handpaper said:

8.4L 154 said:

handpaper said:

captain_cynic said:

Yep, and the snowflake is trying to claim victimhood because she was called out on her bks.

No, that would involve constructing a cohesive and cogent counter-argument to the opinions she has expressed.

"You said bad things, and should shut up," isn't that.

Well it was an acceptance speech at the LGBT awards not a political debate. I'm sure if pressed DT could put up a pretty robust argument not just against her opinions but the actions and harm she has caused his family and families like his in her position in government and secretary of state for inequalities.

In which case, he should STFU until he's in a more appropriate venue.
There is a debate to be had about how to achieve the best outcome for a number of troubled and confused people, and more to be had around single-sex spaces. As you noted, an acceptance speech does not provide room for detail and nuance, but I don't think that is any excuse to substitute personal attacks.

Why?

Badenoch can and does air her views on any given political programme, and at the despatch box from time to time, so why can't an opposing view be aired in a public manner.

[captain_cynic]

Castrol for a knave said:

Why?

Badenoch can and does air her views on any given political programme, and at the despatch box from time to time, so why can't an opposing view be aired in a public manner.

Because their views can't stand up to criticism.

So they go after the person whilst trying to make themselves look like the victim.

[handpaper]

Castrol for a knave said:

Why?

Badenoch can and does air her views on any given political programme, and at the despatch box from time to time, so why can't an opposing view be aired in a public manner.

Could you please clarify the utility of the view "This person should shut up or stop existing," to a meaningful debate?

[Mr Penguin]

Castrol for a knave said:

Why?

Badenoch can and does air her views on any given political programme, and at the despatch box from time to time, so why can't an opposing view be aired in a public manner.

Saying "I wish this person didn't exist" isn't going to bring anyone to his view because it isn't a reasonable thing to say and may make people have sympathy for her.

[Hants PHer]

biggbn said:

Ah, so you're OK with the anyone who has been nominated by a constituency to air their views without any form of censure or criticism? I wonder if anyone here has criticised any elected representatives about their views before?

Of course anyone should be prepared to have their views criticised, especially those in public office such as Kemi. However, I do not consider Tennant's wish for her to "not exist" and to "shut up" as criticism. More like censure, and I strongly dislike censorship. David Tennant is an intelligent, passionate person, it appears, yet demanding that those with an opposing view "shut up" is a form of censorship and represents the opposite of intelligent debate.

That said, he was signalling his own form of virtue at an awards ceremony and such events often witness daft behaviour.

[Countdown]

Hants PHer said:

biggbn said:

Ah, so you're OK with the anyone who has been nominated by a constituency to air their views without any form of censure or criticism? I wonder if anyone here has criticised any elected representatives about their views before?

Of course anyone should be prepared to have their views criticised, especially those in public office such as Kemi. However, I do not consider Tennant's wish for her to "not exist" and to "shut up" as criticism. More like censure, and I strongly dislike censorship. David Tennant is an intelligent, passionate person, it appears, yet demanding that those with an opposing view "shut up" is a form of censorship and represents the opposite of intelligent debate.

That said, he was signalling his own form of virtue at an awards ceremony and such events often witness daft behaviour.

It’s not censorship. DT has zero ability to “censor “ Badenoch (as evidenced by her playing the “is it coz I’m a woman “ card?

I’d rather people virtue signalled like Tennant than Twunt- signalled like Badenoch, Braverman et al

[CT05 Nose Cone]

Countdown said:

CT05 Nose Cone said:

Killboy said:

So now we want a list of people who can and can't comment on politics? Lol

Seems Tennant is bang on the money here.

Or that people don't want to be lectured to by rich and immensely privileged celebrities.

People don't like having their bigotry pointed out to them.

The entertainment industry being well known as a bastion of morality.

[Hants PHer]

Countdown said:

It’s not censorship. DT has zero ability to “censor “ Badenoch (as evidenced by her playing the “is it coz I’m a woman “ card?

I’d rather people virtue signalled like Tennant than Twunt- signalled like Badenoch, Braverman et al

I agree that DT has, thankfully, zero powers of censorship. I was replying to biggbn who suggested that, more generally, censorship was acceptable for those in public office. I don't think it is, subject to the law of course.

I also agree that Kemi's response was a bit silly, in that Tennants' remarks were neither misogynistic nor racist, just daft in my opinion.

It appears that you approve of people being daft and rude (Tennant) if you agree with them. If you don't (Kemi) then you dismiss them with an insult. Got it.

[Rusty Old-Banger]

CT05 Nose Cone said:

Countdown said:

CT05 Nose Cone said:

Killboy said:

So now we want a list of people who can and can't comment on politics? Lol

Seems Tennant is bang on the money here.

Or that people don't want to be lectured to by rich and immensely privileged celebrities.

People don't like having their bigotry pointed out to them.

The entertainment industry being well known as a bastion of morality.

There's an irony in there somewhere about Dr Who, the darling child of the most darling-est of institutions, needing 60+ years to have a gay, black Doctor.

[Countdown]

CT05 Nose Cone said:

Countdown said:

CT05 Nose Cone said:

Killboy said:

So now we want a list of people who can and can't comment on politics? Lol

Seems Tennant is bang on the money here.

Or that people don't want to be lectured to by rich and immensely privileged celebrities.

People don't like having their bigotry pointed out to them.

The entertainment industry being well known as a bastion of morality.

Very similar to politicians in that respect.

[Castrol for a knave]

handpaper said:

Castrol for a knave said:

Why?

Badenoch can and does air her views on any given political programme, and at the despatch box from time to time, so why can't an opposing view be aired in a public manner.

Could you please clarify the utility of the view "This person should shut up or stop existing," to a meaningful debate?

Aside from what he said, it was in response to someone who has ample public coverage of her views, which impact upon a segment of the population.

He said his piece (whether you agree or not), on their behalf.

Is it the right place to make such a statement, maybe, maybe not? He's speaking for a group of people who are not well represented and marginalised, against an MP who centres her very being around culture wars and who receives extensive and longstanding coverage to air those views.

She should put her big girl pants on.

[Countdown]

Hants PHer said:

I agree that DT has, thankfully, zero powers of censorship. I was replying to biggbn who suggested that, more generally, censorship was acceptable for those in public office. I don't think it is, subject to the law of course.

I also agree that Kemi's response was a bit silly, in that Tennants' remarks were neither misogynistic nor racist, just daft in my opinion.

It appears that you approve of people being daft and rude (Tennant) if you agree with them. If you don't (Kemi) then you dismiss them with an insult. Got it.

I don’t think it was daft (just because he displayed a strong dislike for Badenoch doesn’t make it daft, anymore than making it racist or misogynistic or any other ism that Kemi wants to hide behind.) I agree that it was rude but that’s freedom of speech for you. He’s a private citizen, he is free to say what he likes.

[captain_cynic]

Castrol for a knave said:

Aside from what he said, it was in response to someone who has ample public coverage of her views, which impact upon a segment of the population.

He said his piece (whether you agree or not), on their behalf.

Is it the right place to make such a statement, maybe, maybe not? He's speaking for a group of people who are not well represented and marginalised, against an MP who centres her very being around culture wars and who receives extensive and longstanding coverage to air those views.

She should put her big girl pants on.

This.

By drawing attention to it, it's only amplified Tennant's sentiments.

Terrible optics for the Tories... Homophobic politician vs beloved British actor... What's she going to do for an encore, take a st through Judy Dench's letterbox?

[Hants PHer]

Countdown said:

I don’t think it was daft (just because he displayed a strong dislike for Badenoch doesn’t make it daft, anymore than making it racist or misogynistic or any other ism that Kemi wants to hide behind.) I agree that it was rude but that’s freedom of speech for you. He’s a private citizen, he is free to say what he likes.

Well we'll have to disagree then; I think he was being daft. Not his dislike for Kemi, but the "shut up" point. Supporting freedom of actions and speech while telling someone else to "shut up" is daft, because it's directly contradictory to what he was supposedly advocating. I also think that wishing that someone "doesn't exist any more" is daft for obvious reasons, but he did say he didn't wish ill of her, so I suppose that's less of an issue.

[Goaty Bill 2]

Countdown said:

BikeBikeBIke said:

What if most competent people can't take public criticism so they head straight for the private sector and live peaceful quiet lives with tons of cash.

Meanwhile only the dregs go into public service? Isn't that pretty much where we are?

We need to treat politicians with respect and pay them plenty. Then good people will want to be politicians.

You consider the current Tory party to be "competent"?

I thought he had pretty much confirmed otherwise by not having specified any party, rather just politicians, as I took it, generally.

[anonymous-user]

Lets draw this out.

The "Minister for Women and Equalities" is having a spat with some who has just won an award for being a celebrity ally at the British LGBT Awards, calling him "A rich, lefty, white male celebrity so blinded by ideology".

[5 In a Row]

Killboy said:

Lets draw this out.

The "Minister for Women and Equalities" is having a spat with some who has just won an award for being a celebrity ally at the British LGBT Awards, calling him "A rich, lefty, white male celebrity so blinded by ideology".

Quite.
Who is it that's bringing race into it.

[anonymous-user]

5 In a Row said:

Quite.
Who is it that's bringing race into it.

Race is the least funny part of it all.

[biggbn]

Hants PHer said:

Countdown said:

It’s not censorship. DT has zero ability to “censor “ Badenoch (as evidenced by her playing the “is it coz I’m a woman “ card?

I’d rather people virtue signalled like Tennant than Twunt- signalled like Badenoch, Braverman et al

I agree that DT has, thankfully, zero powers of censorship. I was replying to biggbn who suggested that, more generally, censorship was acceptable for those in public office. I don't think it is, subject to the law of course.

I also agree that Kemi's response was a bit silly, in that Tennants' remarks were neither misogynistic nor racist, just daft in my opinion.

It appears that you approve of people being daft and rude (Tennant) if you agree with them. If you don't (Kemi) then you dismiss them with an insult. Got it.

I certainly never suggested censorship was ok. Tenant has no power to censor Badenoch. It was a comment intended as a criticism of the content of her 'output' and ability. ..I'm sure I don't reqlly have to explain that, unless you think that having played a fictitious but very powerful Time Lord actually imbues Tenant with the power of censorship?

[Murph7355]

captain_cynic said:

This.

By drawing attention to it, it's only amplified Tennant's sentiments.

Terrible optics for the Tories... Homophobic politician vs beloved British actor... What's she going to do for an encore, take a st through Judy Dench's letterbox?

It shows neither of them, nor the organisations they work for/support, in an especially good light.

He'd have been much better off keeping specific people out if it. Say thanks for the award and that you'll continue fighting for the rights of people.

She'd have been much better off saying "That's not an especially nice thing to wish upon people you do not know (and I quite liked you in DrWho). For the record I take equality very seriously" (or just not bother saying anything at all).

Nobody wins in these sorts of situation. But everybody thinks they have.