Macron calls a national election

[hidetheelephants]

Kermit power said:

Read their 22 point mission statement and then see if you can figure out how you'd implement it without leaving the EU.

That's a given, but it would take at least one term in office to boil the frog and persuade the populace that they're "very sorry but in order to deliver the desired change we need Frexit". Until then it's a "secret".

[the-photographer]

JagLover said:

the-photographer said:

Some national exceptions to the trend, Denmark moving left,

Denmark isn't really an exception as the ruling Social Democrats have taken a tough line on illegal migration and effectively left no political space for a "populist" right wing party.

https://www.politico.eu/article/denmark-migration-...

Interesting, you can have your cake and eat it (policy wise)

[Gecko1978]

ukwill said:

Will be interesting to see how the predominantly London-centric Pro-Remain #FBPE Twitter echo chamber handle their beloved Europe turning into a seething mass of "bigoted, racist Gammons".

No one replied to this yet. It's a solid point seems to me democracy os a double edged sword tell people you want to empower then, then get results you don't like Brexit, Far right etc.

[mwstewart]

86 said:

Europe moving to the right big time. People fed up with immigration

Yes, I suspect that's the reason.

86 said:

meanwhile we are moving left and Starmer will open the floodgates

Moving to the left most likely, but the floodgates have been open since Blair was in power.

[768]

JagLover said:

the-photographer said:

Some national exceptions to the trend, Denmark moving left,

Denmark isn't really an exception as the ruling Social Democrats have taken a tough line on illegal migration and effectively left no political space for a "populist" right wing party.

https://www.politico.eu/article/denmark-migration-...

There's a lesson there for Starmer. I can't see him taking it, largely because he doesn't need to now. I think we've been isolated from some of the pressures on Europe, but we may well be a few steps behind on the same path, if we're not already with Reform's surge.

[soupdragon1]

Vasco said:

soupdragon1 said:

Macron needs to win.

The divide and conquer of Europe has strong momentum now and Macron, arguably Europe's greatest current leader, is worried.

There are huge amounts wrong with the EU and indeed in France, but having unhappy people is a natural byproduct of democracy, and some people are losing sight of that.

European countries in isolation are simply weak when measured against the behemoths like USA and China. We need that frame of reference.

The French have voted their views on the European parliament and want their voices heard in that forum but I think they get the nuances at play and will think differently on a national level. At least, that's what Macron is hoping for.

Macron as 'Europe's greatest leader' will be giving many people a good laugh !!

Yeah, I had to ask myself what I was saying while I was typing that, however, when you actually look at the list of leaders sans Merkel....who else?

I think that Macron is spot on with Russia/Ukraine and is showing leadership on that front. When looking at the hot topics in EU politics, the war is right up there and Macron looks like the decisive one, well, at least amongst his peers anyway.

Migration is another hot topic and lets get real here, if Ukraine loses, there are still a hell of a lot of people in Ukraine who might want to leave, and guess where they'll be headed...

We're all Europeans, but will we just tell the Ukraine refugees to FRO? Where will they go? And who will the Russians go for next if they take Ukraine? I fully get the immigration issues across Europe but I also recognise the potential for it to get a whole lot worse, and we need to be tuned into that IMO. I think Macron is.

[President Merkin]

I agree on Macron, he has been leading on Ukraine & Russia. The perennial issue with these elections is they tell us very little about the direction of Europe. People vote on local issues on a whim, there is no such thing as a continent wide European polity however much the excitable right wish it were so for their own various self justifcations. Pro Europeans ought to acknowledge this too, for the same reasons.

[isaldiri]

soupdragon1 said:

Yeah, I had to ask myself what I was saying while I was typing that, however, when you actually look at the list of leaders sans Merkel....who else?

Well, it's more a case it would be awfully difficult to call any of europe's current leaders 'great' by any stretch of imagination. Macron probably is the most significant leader at the moment given Scholz is a bit of a mess and less keen to get into grandiose BS like Macron so it's easier for the french to try to hog the power base in europe than under in previous years under Merkel. Doesn't qualify him as being 'europe's greatest current leader' all the same though....

[ATG]

Beati Dogu said:

Belgium's Prime Minister Alex De Croo has also resigned after his party lost out in the EU elections. He’s another globalist WEF droid,

Globalist WEF droid = someone who understands economics, doesn't believe in fairies or the divine right to be given free st by the cosmos or other taxpayers.

[soupdragon1]

Kermit power said:

hidetheelephants said:

leef44 said:

isaldiri said:

ambuletz said:

As someone who doesn't really follow politics can someone explain why his actions are a big deal? (in like 2 sentences).

There is quite a lot of concern that the 'wrong' people might get voted in and Macron should never have given 'the people' the chance to make that wrong choice....

Isn't he just saying "look, if this is what you really want they let's put it to a vote because I cannot be your president if you don't support staying in the EU"

He's dumber than he looks if that's the case as they binned Frexit as a policy.

Read their 22 point mission statement and then see if you can figure out how you'd implement it without leaving the EU.

Its funny what can happen when people are given the opportunity to vote.

In Ireland, there is certainly an uplift in the right wing discussions, Ireland is full etc. We've had Connor McGregor and then Elon Musk coming in behind him, throwing their weight to the cause.

This time was a dual election, European elections and the council elections.

'The people of Ireland have spoken!!!' is the cry on twitter this weekend. To add some flavour, we're talking about some anti immigration candidates winning seats in the local council elections.

I think it underlines that the electorate will vote for soundbites and/or to making a political statement regardless of the fact that it contradicts the overall ethos of the election and manifestos, with Irelands voters being a prime example - voting for people who are going to change immigration policy from a seat at their local council table just doesn't make any sense

In summary, I think its absolutely fair to partly label the French snap election as pro EU/Anti EU. Not in its entirety of course, but certainly as a pointer on the longer term direction of travel. The French are brave enough to protest vote for the European parliament, but Macron is banking on common sense prevailing when it comes to national government.

[ATG]

vaud said:

stuckmojo said:

Getragdogleg said:

Does Globalism really help anyone except those who make lot of money from it ?

no

It depends how you define globalism.

Does free trade between peer nations tempered by a commonly agreed and stable set of trade treaties boost all participants standard of living? Yes, and the evidence is completely overwhelming. It also works for nations that aren't peers, e.g. look at the staggering growth of what we used to consider to be developing economies in Asia.

What globalism exposes is individual country's domestic economic fantasies about how normal reality doesn't apply to them. If you hide behind a protectionist wall you can sometimes sustain the fantasy for longer, hence why the populist bullstters like Le Pen, Farage, Trump, etc always call for isolation, but it is staggeringly economically inefficient and always eventually unravels. You can only delay your appointment with hard truths for so long.

[soupdragon1]

isaldiri said:

soupdragon1 said:

Yeah, I had to ask myself what I was saying while I was typing that, however, when you actually look at the list of leaders sans Merkel....who else?

Well, it's more a case it would be awfully difficult to call any of europe's current leaders 'great' by any stretch of imagination. Macron probably is the most significant leader at the moment given Scholz is a bit of a mess and less keen to get into grandiose BS like Macron so it's easier for the french to try to hog the power base in europe than under in previous years under Merkel. Doesn't qualify him as being 'europe's greatest current leader' all the same though....

Yeah, I think your choice of words are better to be fair. Most significant leader rather that greatest leader is probably a better description of where my head is at

Kind of scary when you look around the key leaders in the world today. Trump and Biden being a perfect example. I still can't believe the USA is going to choose between those 2 in November. Like voting for a right hook to the head or an uppercut to the jaw.

[Blue62]

President Merkin said:

I agree on Macron, he has been leading on Ukraine & Russia. The perennial issue with these elections is they tell us very little about the direction of Europe. People vote on local issues on a whim, there is no such thing as a continent wide European polity however much the excitable right wish it were so for their own various self justifcations. Pro Europeans ought to acknowledge this too, for the same reasons.

Bang on, but it’s a straw to grasp. The interesting point for me is the direction these so called ‘far right’ parties are going in, they’re not seemingly economically on the right, if anything they’re more traditionally on the left. Certainly their policies on culture and identity (immigration) are traditionally right wing, but I think a lot of people in the U.K. will be surprised at what may be coming along.

[Murph7355]

soupdragon1 said:

....
In summary, I think its absolutely fair to partly label the French snap election as pro EU/Anti EU. Not in its entirety of course, but certainly as a pointer on the longer term direction of travel. The French are brave enough to protest vote for the European parliament, but Macron is banking on common sense prevailing when it comes to national government.

What is "common sense" in this context?

Sticking with the status quo and letting Macron do what he wants?

This is part of the problem. People are spiking the EU vote because they feel like they are not being listened to by any of the political layers they are subjected to.

If Macron wins this and takes it as carte blanche to keep doing what he has been, the right will gain more momentum and soon the big "surprise" will be people like Macron getting kicked in the bawbag.

That will be the time to worry, and the status quo lovers will be shocked.

If he wins, he needs to realise he will have done so by the skin of his teeth, no matter what the result. And he needs to start listening to why the people are upset enough to make a mockery of the EU voting. Current politicians seem incapable of doing this... Even making unholy coalitions in some countries simply to ostracise the right wingers people voted for. This is a massive, massive mistake IMO. But gets dismissed as "ah but the people saw sense".... Hmmmmm.

Will also lead to very interesting times with the EU parliament if more states vote this way. An EU layer choc-full of right wing parties who typically aren't fans of the EU. Worked well for the UK.

[Wills2]

All of this including what we have seen in the UK is down to a lack of political understanding around immigration and what the population thinks about it, you cannot import millions of people who either don't want to or can't integrate into the local culture, creating large separate communities either by want or need.

It's a recipe for trouble in any country and gives rise to these single issue parties stoking fear and resentment, the main centrist parties need to get a grip on the situation, you only have to look at the northern mill towns in the UK to see it is not a recipe for success and I'm sure there are plenty of places in the EU going the same way.

I note that Poland (under Tusk) does not have this far right issue, I wonder why.

It is also an issue of our own making, our constant meddling in other countries affairs, the way we collapsed Libya turning it into a failed state on the shores of the Mediterranean, the fallout out in Syria from the Iraqi war and ISIS, our politicians finger prints are on it all, they act with impunity and everyone suffers.




.

Edited by Wills2 on Monday 10th June 11:58

[jshell]

Leo Varadkar, the ex-PM of Ireland tried to apply democracy and it smacked him in the mouth too. Failed to read the room, tried to re-define 'family' and the people said GTFOH! https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/21/why-has-l...

Peope are becoming sick of the illusion of democratic choice and will vote more and more to the extremes to get away from the Uni-parties.

This has been predictable as the 4 seasons.

[jshell]

soupdragon1 said:

I think that Macron is spot on with Russia/Ukraine and is showing leadership on that front.

Is that why he turned-tail when his threatening policies against Russia earned him a humiliating slapdown? https://www.yahoo.com/news/france-accuses-russia-i...

[President Merkin]

jshell said:

Is that why he turned-tail when his threatening policies against Russia earned him a humiliating slapdown? https://www.yahoo.com/news/france-accuses-russia-i...

The article states the opposite of what you do. fk the Russians, let them cry away.

[Vasco]

Wombat3 said:

Kermit power said:

The question is whether the leopard has changed its spots or just put a coat on?

Their manifesto doesn't look a million miles further to the extreme than Reform UK's, but look at how they've arrived there.

As far as I'm aware, there is no suggestion that Farage has ever been a member of a Far Right party. I could easily believe that his personal private views are probably somewhat more centrist, but he's nothing if not a showman, and projecting populism is proving a good way of winning support.

Marine Le Pen, on the other hand? She has pulled the public image of her party (and herself) dramatically back from the extreme thanks to the populist agenda, but I really don't believe that her private views have changed one bit........

You mean a bit like Starmer then?

Yes, indeed.

I'm going to look forward to how Starmer copes with the Trade Unions.

[Vasco]

768 said:

JagLover said:

the-photographer said:

Some national exceptions to the trend, Denmark moving left,

Denmark isn't really an exception as the ruling Social Democrats have taken a tough line on illegal migration and effectively left no political space for a "populist" right wing party.

https://www.politico.eu/article/denmark-migration-...

There's a lesson there for Starmer. I can't see him taking it, largely because he doesn't need to now. I think we've been isolated from some of the pressures on Europe, but we may well be a few steps behind on the same path, if we're not already with Reform's surge.

Luckily, with Reform now being led by Farage, his adoration for Trump should make people here have second thoughts on whether to cast their vote in that direction.