Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?
Discussion
wc98 said:
Would be interested to know how small your house is and what part of the country (i'm guessing south west) you live that your energy bill is only £1000 per year. Mine is double that for a small 3 bedroom house, so only 4x required.
I just googled average UK energy price. It's a silly number. It's what, funding 8 new nuke plants a year?otolith said:
ChocolateFrog said:
turbobloke said:
JagLover said:
Hill92 said:
"The vast majority of the power system is owned by the private sector. So it will be private capital that will have to go into upgrading infrastructure. They tell us they’ve got the money to do that but they said they can’t spend it for other reasons: for things like planning and supply chain, regulation, that type of stuff."
Why are Reform and the Tories trying to get in the way of the private sector? Are they communists?
The UK resident will pay the costs regardless. If a private company is paying for it then they will want a commercial return on their investment. So your starting point is that the consumer pays, but then, as we saw with the energy price spike, the public will not accept costs at this level, so then the taxpayer pays a share as well. Why are Reform and the Tories trying to get in the way of the private sector? Are they communists?
Labour are steering a hospital pass towards the mortuary.
Seems unlikely.
President Merkin said:
Jordie Barretts sock said:
^^^^^^ is bang on the money.
what is it though? Saying the Tories didn't serve their voters without articulating what that should have been isn't illuminating. Also begs the question what is it you are agreeing with? But let's leave that for now.Jacob Rees-Mogg arrogantly lying on the front benches, the whole Covid debacle, cake or not, Barnard Castle, stand up and put your mask on, sit down and take it off, paying people to stay at home.
No Tory voters in 2019 voted for that. And rightly, the unelected PM is getting his backside handed to him.
Jordie Barretts sock said:
In 2019, thise that voted Conservative voted to get the whole Brexit thing finally boxed off. They also thought they were getting low taxation and small government. What transpired was akin to a Liberal Democrat Government making policy by social media.
Jacob Rees-Mogg arrogantly lying on the front benches, the whole Covid debacle, cake or not, Barnard Castle, stand up and put your mask on, sit down and take it off, paying people to stay at home.
No Tory voters in 2019 voted for that. And rightly, the unelected PM is getting his backside handed to him.
You cannot complain the government failed to deliver Brexit. they delivered the inevitable Brexit you were warned about but presumably, if a supporter, chose to ignore. If so, then that's mere buyer's remorse. Academic anyway, by definition, no Brexit improves the country.Jacob Rees-Mogg arrogantly lying on the front benches, the whole Covid debacle, cake or not, Barnard Castle, stand up and put your mask on, sit down and take it off, paying people to stay at home.
No Tory voters in 2019 voted for that. And rightly, the unelected PM is getting his backside handed to him.
The rest of it is what you get with a bunch of entitled Eton wasters & I happen to agree with most of it.
But the interesting part is the variation in what people say are traditional conservative values. No consensus is there?
hairykrishna said:
I just googled average UK energy price. It's a silly number. It's what, funding 8 new nuke plants a year?
It is a silly number, trouble is given admissions that the stated numbers will be much higher than that officially claimed none of us know what it will actually be. Looking at where costs increased massively for things like Scottish ferries, HS2 etc it wouldn't come as much of surprise if that's where we ended up.Might put me in a bit of a pickle. I had a plan if it got to the stage where i couldn't afford to heat the house in winter. My local SNP MP lives across the road from my dad, big wooden fence round the property, wooden framed windows, wooden doors. They were going to be the fuel for a log burner on the cold days. Now he is retiring i will have to travel much further to gather fuel from whichever clown is pushing net zero in my constituency for Labour
President Merkin said:
Jordie Barretts sock said:
In 2019, thise that voted Conservative voted to get the whole Brexit thing finally boxed off. They also thought they were getting low taxation and small government. What transpired was akin to a Liberal Democrat Government making policy by social media.
Jacob Rees-Mogg arrogantly lying on the front benches, the whole Covid debacle, cake or not, Barnard Castle, stand up and put your mask on, sit down and take it off, paying people to stay at home.
No Tory voters in 2019 voted for that. And rightly, the unelected PM is getting his backside handed to him.
You cannot complain the government failed to deliver Brexit. they delivered the inevitable Brexit you were warned about but presumably, if a supporter, chose to ignore. If so, then that's mere buyer's remorse. Academic anyway, by definition, no Brexit improves the country.Jacob Rees-Mogg arrogantly lying on the front benches, the whole Covid debacle, cake or not, Barnard Castle, stand up and put your mask on, sit down and take it off, paying people to stay at home.
No Tory voters in 2019 voted for that. And rightly, the unelected PM is getting his backside handed to him.
The rest of it is what you get with a bunch of entitled Eton wasters & I happen to agree with most of it.
But the interesting part is the variation in what people say are traditional conservative values. No consensus is there?
The Tory party, or more precisely Cameron, with Brexit was like the kid who lights a bonfire and, when it suddenly gets out of control, s
ts himself and runs off.There's no logic in calling a referendum and then quitting because of the result you'd democratically elected to follow. What came after was, from the start, utter chaos and incompetence. The most dyed in the wool Brexiter would have to admit the government gained few of the potential advantages and implemented so few changes as to make almost zero sense of leaving.
Hants PHer said:
I might vote Reform to send a message to the Tories, but not the message you suggest. I don't want the Conservative party to adopt Reform's policies, certainly not wholesale. Those policies are a real tangle of things and not wholly credible, for example the one about 5% departmental cuts right across government.
No, the message from me would be "Hello, I'm a previous Conservative voter and I'm voting Reform to signal my disapproval of your actions since 2019. Sort yourselves out and you might regain my vote next time." My assumption is that Conservative HQ will regard Reform votes as coming mostly from disaffected Tories.
For clarity, the following are all unacceptable to me: not voting, spoiling my ballot paper, voting Labour or voting LibDem.
Voting for a party much further right than the Tories will not convey the message.No, the message from me would be "Hello, I'm a previous Conservative voter and I'm voting Reform to signal my disapproval of your actions since 2019. Sort yourselves out and you might regain my vote next time." My assumption is that Conservative HQ will regard Reform votes as coming mostly from disaffected Tories.
For clarity, the following are all unacceptable to me: not voting, spoiling my ballot paper, voting Labour or voting LibDem.
Digga said:
He can and I will too.
The Tory party, or more precisely Cameron, with Brexit was like the kid who lights a bonfire and, when it suddenly gets out of control, sts himself and runs off.
There's no logic in calling a referendum and then quitting because of the result you'd democratically elected to follow. What came after was, from the start, utter chaos and incompetence. The most dyed in the wool Brexiter would have to admit the government gained few of the potential advantages and implemented so few changes as to make almost zero sense of leaving.
There are no advantages. That's the point. Suggesting there are merely marks one out as disconnected from reality. Brexiters won, just, their referendum & got what they wanted. The only point of debate is how sThe Tory party, or more precisely Cameron, with Brexit was like the kid who lights a bonfire and, when it suddenly gets out of control, s
ts himself and runs off.There's no logic in calling a referendum and then quitting because of the result you'd democratically elected to follow. What came after was, from the start, utter chaos and incompetence. The most dyed in the wool Brexiter would have to admit the government gained few of the potential advantages and implemented so few changes as to make almost zero sense of leaving.
te their Brexit would be. It could have been worse than it is but it could never be better than what went before. The argument it hasn't been implemented properly has a very familiar, communism tinged ring to itIt's a generational mistake, destined to be watered down & eventually reversed altogether.
Digga said:
The Tory party, or more precisely Cameron, with Brexit was like the kid who lights a bonfire and, when it suddenly gets out of control, sts himself and runs off.
Great analogy... could you add a bit in about telling the fire brigade not to prepare for a fire in advance as it wasn't really going to happen anyway?ts himself and runs off.President Merkin said:
There are no advantages.
I disagree. I do agree that we have not seized them yet though. President Merkin said:
That's the point. Suggesting there are merely marks one out as disconnected from reality.
Ahh, your usual rudeness again combined with you blind absolutism. President Merkin said:
Brexiters won, just, their referendum & got what they wanted.
Did they get what they wanted? How do you know? President Merkin said:
The only point of debate is how ste their Brexit would be. It could have been worse than it is but it could never be better than what went before.
In your opinion. And it just that, an opinion. te their Brexit would be. It could have been worse than it is but it could never be better than what went before.President Merkin said:
The argument it hasn't been implemented properly has a very familiar, communism tinged ring to it
and yet it is true, inconveniently for youPresident Merkin said:
It's a generational mistake, destined to be watered down & eventually reversed altogether.
Maybe, but perhaps not. I doubt we will ever rejoin. Digga said:
He can and I will too.
The Tory party, or more precisely Cameron, with Brexit was like the kid who lights a bonfire and, when it suddenly gets out of control, sts himself and runs off.
There's no logic in calling a referendum and then quitting because of the result you'd democratically elected to follow. What came after was, from the start, utter chaos and incompetence. The most dyed in the wool Brexiter would have to admit the government gained few of the potential advantages and implemented so few changes as to make almost zero sense of leaving.
For many, it was the sheer possibility of leaving the clutches of that nasty EU - where the UK could be expected to *have* to follow the desires of many other countries, even if we fundamentally disagreed with them.The Tory party, or more precisely Cameron, with Brexit was like the kid who lights a bonfire and, when it suddenly gets out of control, s
ts himself and runs off.There's no logic in calling a referendum and then quitting because of the result you'd democratically elected to follow. What came after was, from the start, utter chaos and incompetence. The most dyed in the wool Brexiter would have to admit the government gained few of the potential advantages and implemented so few changes as to make almost zero sense of leaving.
The 52% Brexit vote shouldn't have been the slightest surprise to anyone in tune with the bulk of 'ordinary people'. All the surprise and disbelief seemed to come from London/SE and businesses who just assumed that Cameron would easily win.
President Merkin said:
Digga said:
He can and I will too.
The Tory party, or more precisely Cameron, with Brexit was like the kid who lights a bonfire and, when it suddenly gets out of control, sts himself and runs off.
There's no logic in calling a referendum and then quitting because of the result you'd democratically elected to follow. What came after was, from the start, utter chaos and incompetence. The most dyed in the wool Brexiter would have to admit the government gained few of the potential advantages and implemented so few changes as to make almost zero sense of leaving.
There are no advantages. That's the point. Suggesting there are merely marks one out as disconnected from reality. Brexiters won, just, their referendum & got what they wanted. The only point of debate is how sThe Tory party, or more precisely Cameron, with Brexit was like the kid who lights a bonfire and, when it suddenly gets out of control, s
ts himself and runs off.There's no logic in calling a referendum and then quitting because of the result you'd democratically elected to follow. What came after was, from the start, utter chaos and incompetence. The most dyed in the wool Brexiter would have to admit the government gained few of the potential advantages and implemented so few changes as to make almost zero sense of leaving.
te their Brexit would be. It could have been worse than it is but it could never be better than what went before. The argument it hasn't been implemented properly has a very familiar, communism tinged ring to itIt's a generational mistake, destined to be watered down & eventually reversed altogether.
President Merkin said:
Digga said:
He can and I will too.
The Tory party, or more precisely Cameron, with Brexit was like the kid who lights a bonfire and, when it suddenly gets out of control, sts himself and runs off.
There's no logic in calling a referendum and then quitting because of the result you'd democratically elected to follow. What came after was, from the start, utter chaos and incompetence. The most dyed in the wool Brexiter would have to admit the government gained few of the potential advantages and implemented so few changes as to make almost zero sense of leaving.
There are no advantages. That's the point. Suggesting there are merely marks one out as disconnected from reality. Brexiters won, just, their referendum & got what they wanted. The only point of debate is how sThe Tory party, or more precisely Cameron, with Brexit was like the kid who lights a bonfire and, when it suddenly gets out of control, s
ts himself and runs off.There's no logic in calling a referendum and then quitting because of the result you'd democratically elected to follow. What came after was, from the start, utter chaos and incompetence. The most dyed in the wool Brexiter would have to admit the government gained few of the potential advantages and implemented so few changes as to make almost zero sense of leaving.
te their Brexit would be. It could have been worse than it is but it could never be better than what went before. The argument it hasn't been implemented properly has a very familiar, communism tinged ring to itIt's a generational mistake, destined to be watered down & eventually reversed altogether.
Removing EU laws relating to planning is just one.
Oilchange said:
EU laws still in place? Well the wording might be the same but those who enforce them might not be.
See article regarding Supreme Court Decision here:https://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/news/view/s...
the article said:
The legislation at issue in this case is the Town and Country Planning (Environmental Impact Assessment) Regulations 2017, which implemented European Union Directive 92/11/EU (the EIA directive) in the UK...
President Merkin said:
uk66fastback said:
I’ll wager not in your lifetime, pal - if ever. The EU will implode long before we would ever rejoin.
Talking of things that sound familiar...To be a Brexiter is to be a denier of gravity.
You really do need to better understand how 'the man in the street' thinks. Many on PH are in good work positions, good incomes, traditionally Conservative etc etc - but, clearly, this is quite irrelevant to others.
Much of the UK does not fall into those categories and will always fight any possibility of us coming under the control of other countries - not in my, or your, lifetimes.
President Merkin said:
uk66fastback said:
I’ll wager not in your lifetime, pal - if ever. The EU will implode long before we would ever rejoin.
Talking of things that sound familiar...To be a Brexiter is to be a denier of gravity.
Vasco said:
A denier of gravity.......
You really do need to better understand how 'the man in the street' thinks. Many on PH are in good work positions, good incomes, traditionally Conservative etc etc - but, clearly, this is quite irrelevant to others.
Much of the UK does not fall into those categories and will always fight any possibility of us coming under the control of other countries - not in my, or your, lifetimes.
Thats twice now you've brought up the man in the street in the context of a 52/48 referendum. I'm not sure you know the man in the street as much as you think. And if you do, you haven't spoken to him lately.You really do need to better understand how 'the man in the street' thinks. Many on PH are in good work positions, good incomes, traditionally Conservative etc etc - but, clearly, this is quite irrelevant to others.
Much of the UK does not fall into those categories and will always fight any possibility of us coming under the control of other countries - not in my, or your, lifetimes.
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