Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?

[AmyRichardson]

Reform have certainly opened things up. They've beefed up the forthcoming Labour landslide but the political dynamics of the Cons, LDs (who may both end up with a similar number of seats) and Reform will almost be more interesting. I've got an inkling that we might be living through an era akin to 1918-31.

[119]

turbobloke said:

Vasco said:

Any guess on ASLEF/RMT being the first to riot ?

There's a queue forming.

https://www.aberdeenlive.news/news/aberdeen-news/u...

Says something that they start organising riots before they have even taken office.

[skwdenyer]

768 said:

skwdenyer said:

Great. That only works if “personal responsibility” means no state social care, pension, healthcare, etc. And even then, if you want to match say US tax levels, you’d need to increase them.

People are in la la land if they think we can have a functioning modern state and far lower taxes.

Nah.

It's a balance, a spectrum and moving to no state social, healthcare or pension is obviously a very extreme shift from where we are, or where we should be. This tax burden I believe has gone too far. I'm not sure why you keep bringing up the US.

People are in la la land if they think there are no downsides to high taxes.

I keep bringing up the US because so many low-tax proponents do, from those on here to those in public life (John Redwood did it a day or so ago on X/Twitter).

Can you point to a single comparable state to the UK that has a lower overall effective tax burden?

[Rocket.]

President Merkin said:

Rocket. said:

bhstewie said:

Surprised so many people seem to want the Conservatives to become a bunch of fascist following Hitler praising Putin apologists but I suppose it takes all sorts.

No just and an actual Conservative party not some labour lite Tony Blair tribute act would be a nice

Love it. It's very telling how boiled some brains must be to have witnessed a government that shut down parliament, passed a law containing a lie to facilitate a mass deportation policy, legislated against legitimate protest, announced it was willing to break the law and pursued every single divisive cultural issue on offer & think it's all a bit Blairy lefty round here. The broken Overton window on full display.

Ah bless anyone with a different view to you right has a boiled brain

Carry on making a fool of yourself, you and the other keyboard warriors can carry on your frothing hatred for anything remotely right of centre but at the same time keep questioning how can this possibly happen?

Next week when Labour win we will get to see how Starmer and his clueless mob are pulled all over the place by shouty minorities as they start to try an introduce what you can and can't say and who can or can't be criticised, also with a bit of luck some of Rayners latest ideas of the redistribution of illegal migrants will be parked on your back door step. Also cant wait for Lammy as foreign secretary, we are in for a treat...

[Mr Penguin]

Rocket. said:

Also cant wait for Lammy as foreign secretary, we are in for a treat...

Be thankful he isn't Home Secretary

[tangerine_sedge]

turbobloke said:

JagLover said:

Hill92 said:

"The vast majority of the power system is owned by the private sector. So it will be private capital that will have to go into upgrading infrastructure. They tell us they’ve got the money to do that but they said they can’t spend it for other reasons: for things like planning and supply chain, regulation, that type of stuff."

Why are Reform and the Tories trying to get in the way of the private sector? Are they communists?

The UK resident will pay the costs regardless. If a private company is paying for it then they will want a commercial return on their investment. So your starting point is that the consumer pays, but then, as we saw with the energy price spike, the public will not accept costs at this level, so then the taxpayer pays a share as well.

There's a calculation that shows a fully Net Zero grid will cost households over £8000 per year in energy bills alone, will see if I can find it.

Labour are steering a hospital pass towards the mortuary.

I've got a spreadsheet here that can make it whatever you want. How about £20,000 more expensive? /sarcasm

[President Merkin]

Rocket. said:

Ah bless anyone with a different view to you right has a boiled brain

Carry on making a fool of yourself, you and the other keyboard warriors can carry on your frothing hatred for anything remotely right of centre but at the same time keep questioning how can this possibly happen?

Next week when Labour win we will get to see how Starmer and his clueless mob are pulled all over the place by shouty minorities as they start to try an introduce what you can and can't say and who can or can't be criticised, also with a bit of luck some of Rayners latest ideas of the redistribution of illegal migrants will be parked on your back door step. Also cant wait for Lammy as foreign secretary, we are in for a treat...

Is this an argument? I can't detect an argument.

[Rocket.]

President Merkin said:

Rocket. said:

Ah bless anyone with a different view to you right has a boiled brain

Carry on making a fool of yourself, you and the other keyboard warriors can carry on your frothing hatred for anything remotely right of centre but at the same time keep questioning how can this possibly happen?

Next week when Labour win we will get to see how Starmer and his clueless mob are pulled all over the place by shouty minorities as they start to try an introduce what you can and can't say and who can or can't be criticised, also with a bit of luck some of Rayners latest ideas of the redistribution of illegal migrants will be parked on your back door step. Also cant wait for Lammy as foreign secretary, we are in for a treat...

Is this an argument? I can't detect an argument.

Ah here comes the cavalry... No contrary to a lot of the posting on here im not looking for an argument, but I'll attempt to call out the one-sided b/s when i see it and present another view? I really just dip in here occasionally to see what nonsense is posted, to be fair to you guys you don't disappoint.

[LimmerickLad]

Rocket. said:

President Merkin said:

Rocket. said:

Ah bless anyone with a different view to you right has a boiled brain

Carry on making a fool of yourself, you and the other keyboard warriors can carry on your frothing hatred for anything remotely right of centre but at the same time keep questioning how can this possibly happen?

Next week when Labour win we will get to see how Starmer and his clueless mob are pulled all over the place by shouty minorities as they start to try an introduce what you can and can't say and who can or can't be criticised, also with a bit of luck some of Rayners latest ideas of the redistribution of illegal migrants will be parked on your back door step. Also cant wait for Lammy as foreign secretary, we are in for a treat...

Is this an argument? I can't detect an argument.

Ah here comes the cavalry... No contrary to a lot of the posting on here im not looking for an argument, but I'll attempt to call out the one-sided b/s when i see it and present another view? I really just dip in here occasionally to see what nonsense is posted, to be fair to you guys you don't disappoint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ

[Killboy]

Elysium said:

You are quoting a post in which I explained why I did not feel I could vote for Reform.

Actually, you have my apologies!

[Countdown]

JagLover said:

Rocket. said:

bhstewie said:

Surprised so many people seem to want the Conservatives to become a bunch of fascist following Hitler praising Putin apologists but I suppose it takes all sorts.

No just and an actual Conservative party not some labour lite Tony Blair tribute act would be a nice

As I see it Tories DO have the choice between an "Actual Conservative Party" (Reform) and "some Labour lite version" (Conservatives). Given current polling it looks like most Tories prefer the "labour lite version"

[captain_cynic]

Countdown said:

As I see it Tories DO have the choice between an "Actual Conservative Party" (Reform) and "some Labour lite version" (Conservatives). Given current polling it looks like most Tories prefer the "labour lite version"

British people generally want a stable economy and social equality.

Hence they're looking for a Labour without the economic baggage or a conservative without the terrible track record on both economics and social reform.

[Mr Penguin]

Countdown said:

As I see it Tories DO have the choice between an "Actual Conservative Party" (Reform) and "some Labour lite version" (Conservatives). Given current polling it looks like most Tories prefer the "labour lite version"

They are also the one most likely to be able to form a base for the next right wing government, so some may prefer Reform but will vote Conservative for pragmatic reasons.

[Digga]

Countdown said:

JagLover said:

Rocket. said:

bhstewie said:

Surprised so many people seem to want the Conservatives to become a bunch of fascist following Hitler praising Putin apologists but I suppose it takes all sorts.

No just and an actual Conservative party not some labour lite Tony Blair tribute act would be a nice

As I see it Tories DO have the choice between an "Actual Conservative Party" (Reform) and "some Labour lite version" (Conservatives). Given current polling it looks like most Tories prefer the "labour lite version"

In many respects, you are right, but some people don't get your logic.

[Vasco]

President Merkin said:

Vasco said:

Any guess on ASLEF/RMT being the first to riot ?

If you're offering odds, I'll take a bit of that hysterical action.

Betting is not an ideal pastime at present......
Would you prefer NHS or Teachers?

[ChocolateFrog]

turbobloke said:

JagLover said:

Hill92 said:

"The vast majority of the power system is owned by the private sector. So it will be private capital that will have to go into upgrading infrastructure. They tell us they’ve got the money to do that but they said they can’t spend it for other reasons: for things like planning and supply chain, regulation, that type of stuff."

Why are Reform and the Tories trying to get in the way of the private sector? Are they communists?

The UK resident will pay the costs regardless. If a private company is paying for it then they will want a commercial return on their investment. So your starting point is that the consumer pays, but then, as we saw with the energy price spike, the public will not accept costs at this level, so then the taxpayer pays a share as well.

There's a calculation that shows a fully Net Zero grid will cost households over £8000 per year in energy bills alone, will see if I can find it.

Labour are steering a hospital pass towards the mortuary.

An extra 230bn a year?

Seems unlikely.

[JagLover]

Mr Penguin said:

Countdown said:

As I see it Tories DO have the choice between an "Actual Conservative Party" (Reform) and "some Labour lite version" (Conservatives). Given current polling it looks like most Tories prefer the "labour lite version"

They are also the one most likely to be able to form a base for the next right wing government, so some may prefer Reform but will vote Conservative for pragmatic reasons.

and some are slow to change, or have other reasons. Last time I spoke to my Dad about it he was still voting Conservative and he doesn't want Blairism.

[wc98]

hairykrishna said:

Don't be silly. Energy bills aren't going up 8x.

Would be interested to know how small your house is and what part of the country (i'm guessing south west) you live that your energy bill is only £1000 per year. Mine is double that for a small 3 bedroom house, so only 4x required.

Part of me actually hopes it happens so people can see how disconnected ALL of the clowns from EVERY party have become from most of the electorate and finally understand that the entire system behind our increasingly non functioning country needs a major overhaul starting with every single person on the public payroll understanding the term public servant.

[otolith]

ChocolateFrog said:

turbobloke said:

JagLover said:

Hill92 said:

"The vast majority of the power system is owned by the private sector. So it will be private capital that will have to go into upgrading infrastructure. They tell us they’ve got the money to do that but they said they can’t spend it for other reasons: for things like planning and supply chain, regulation, that type of stuff."

Why are Reform and the Tories trying to get in the way of the private sector? Are they communists?

The UK resident will pay the costs regardless. If a private company is paying for it then they will want a commercial return on their investment. So your starting point is that the consumer pays, but then, as we saw with the energy price spike, the public will not accept costs at this level, so then the taxpayer pays a share as well.

There's a calculation that shows a fully Net Zero grid will cost households over £8000 per year in energy bills alone, will see if I can find it.

Labour are steering a hospital pass towards the mortuary.

An extra 230bn a year?

Seems unlikely.

Torygraph says the Labour plan to decarbonise the grid by 2030 will cost 15.5bn/yr. Divided by 28 million households is £554/yr.

[Elysium]

Killboy said:

Elysium said:

You are quoting a post in which I explained why I did not feel I could vote for Reform.

Actually, you have my apologies!