Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?
Discussion
turbobloke said:
DT election update circular - there's data from a Helm-Deltapoll panel of supposedly "all-important" voters who backed the Tories in 2019 which shows that one in four (24%) will now vote for Reform. 69% of those say they are unlikely to change their mind before polling day.
What does that translate to in terms of MPs for reform? Or does it just split the Con vote?JagLover said:
Hill92 said:
"The vast majority of the power system is owned by the private sector. So it will be private capital that will have to go into upgrading infrastructure. They tell us they’ve got the money to do that but they said they can’t spend it for other reasons: for things like planning and supply chain, regulation, that type of stuff."
Why are Reform and the Tories trying to get in the way of the private sector? Are they communists?
The UK resident will pay the costs regardless. If a private company is paying for it then they will want a commercial return on their investment. So your starting point is that the consumer pays, but then, as we saw with the energy price spike, the public will not accept costs at this level, so then the taxpayer pays a share as well. Why are Reform and the Tories trying to get in the way of the private sector? Are they communists?
Labour are steering a hospital pass towards the mortuary.
Elysium said:
<edited for brevity>
..........would you vote for Reform to send a message to the Conservatives about what you want them to become?
I might vote Reform to send a message to the Tories, but not the message you suggest. I don't want the Conservative party to adopt Reform's policies, certainly not wholesale. Those policies are a real tangle of things and not wholly credible, for example the one about 5% departmental cuts right across government...........would you vote for Reform to send a message to the Conservatives about what you want them to become?
No, the message from me would be "Hello, I'm a previous Conservative voter and I'm voting Reform to signal my disapproval of your actions since 2019. Sort yourselves out and you might regain my vote next time." My assumption is that Conservative HQ will regard Reform votes as coming mostly from disaffected Tories.
For clarity, the following are all unacceptable to me: not voting, spoiling my ballot paper, voting Labour or voting LibDem.
skwdenyer said:
Great. That only works if “personal responsibility” means no state social care, pension, healthcare, etc. And even then, if you want to match say US tax levels, you’d need to increase them.
People are in la la land if they think we can have a functioning modern state and far lower taxes.
Nah.People are in la la land if they think we can have a functioning modern state and far lower taxes.
It's a balance, a spectrum and moving to no state social, healthcare or pension is obviously a very extreme shift from where we are, or where we should be. This tax burden I believe has gone too far. I'm not sure why you keep bringing up the US.
People are in la la land if they think there are no downsides to high taxes.
ChocolateFrog said:
What he said is exactly the same as the propaganda the Kremlin spouts.
He's literally parroting Putin's lines and you call me thick for calling that TACIT support.
So you believe the Kremlin also said '"[The] invasion of Ukraine was immoral, outrageous and indefensible. As a champion of national sovereignty, I believe that Putin was entirely wrong to invade the sovereign nation of Ukraine," ??? He's literally parroting Putin's lines and you call me thick for calling that TACIT support.
768 said:
skwdenyer said:
Great. That only works if “personal responsibility” means no state social care, pension, healthcare, etc. And even then, if you want to match say US tax levels, you’d need to increase them.
People are in la la land if they think we can have a functioning modern state and far lower taxes.
Nah.People are in la la land if they think we can have a functioning modern state and far lower taxes.
It's a balance, a spectrum and moving to no state social, healthcare or pension is obviously a very extreme shift from where we are, or where we should be. This tax burden I believe has gone too far. I'm not sure why you keep bringing up the US.
People are in la la land if they think there are no downsides to high taxes.
Also, the link to a webpage concerning voluntary payments to government has been posted recently, and presumably is easy to find anyway. What are people so-minded waiting for, or are voluntary extra payments flooding in...
Vasco said:
Any guess on ASLEF/RMT being the first to riot ?
There's a queue forming.https://www.aberdeenlive.news/news/aberdeen-news/u...
Rocket. said:
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Surprised so many people seem to want the Conservatives to become a bunch of fascist following Hitler praising Putin apologists but I suppose it takes all sorts.
No just and an actual Conservative party not some labour lite Tony Blair tribute act would be a nice 
turbobloke said:
There's a calculation that shows a fully Net Zero grid will cost households over £8000 per year in energy bills alone, will see if I can find it.
It's not just the cost though.As I understand it there isn't enough specialist engineering capacity or deployment, or enough time to build the interconnects into the grid at this scale. It is not a 5 year task...
Rocket. said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Surprised so many people seem to want the Conservatives to become a bunch of fascist following Hitler praising Putin apologists but I suppose it takes all sorts.
No just and an actual Conservative party not some labour lite Tony Blair tribute act would be a nice Elysium said:
Yes and no.
Okay, so can't vote for other parties because they don't remotely represent you, but you can for reform because while they don't represent you you agree with some of their "contracts" - which everyone here agrees are impossible to implement (but that's okay because they don't need to)
z4RRSchris said:
im not really sure what you would cut from the public sector that isnt already st.
other than old ex tory reform voters with no mortgages and nice pensions, saying, "well we would slash the welfare bill and make poor people get off their lazy arses etc,"
Just returning to the same number of working age people on out of work benefits as in 2019 would mean 1 million fewer people on such benefits and also contributing to tax. t. other than old ex tory reform voters with no mortgages and nice pensions, saying, "well we would slash the welfare bill and make poor people get off their lazy arses etc,"
So it is actually an issue no matter how some pretend otherwise.
turbobloke said:
Which news surveyed how many people and what was the specific wording on the issue of fascism plus apologism and how were Hitler and Putin included exactly? Your post included those words plus 'so many people'.
It can't be made up, seeing yet more fantasy fiction name calling in this context is unlikely after all.
I was responding to Elysium's "Or would you vote for Reform to send a message to the Conservatives about what you want them to become?".It can't be made up, seeing yet more fantasy fiction name calling in this context is unlikely after all.
Like I said you seem to think you can vote for fascist following Hitler praising Putin apologists whilst convincing yourself you're not endorsing all that stuff by voting for them.
Dogs and fleas leaps to mind.
Killboy said:
Elysium said:
Yes and no.
Okay, so can't vote for other parties because they don't remotely represent you, but you can for reform because while they don't represent you you agree with some of their "contracts" - which everyone here agrees are impossible to implement (but that's okay because they don't need to)Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff