Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?

[JagLover]

eharding said:

I don't particularly warm to Starmer, but unless he starts a massive hallucinogenic drug habit I can't see him screwing things up in the same way.

That is, in my view, to assume that governments become unpopular mainly due to people and not policy. In terms of policy the seeds of Labour unpopularity are already there and most of them are continuation of the same policies that made the Tories unpopular.

[JagLover]

Mortarboard said:

swisstoni said:

Do you not think a lot, if not all, this sudden success for the LibDems is down to a mass exodus of erstwhile Tory voters who just can’t vote for the current crew?

It's Reform splitting the vote.
In most areas, labour gains, in others it's the libDems.

Election calculus actually has the libdems vote going down slightly. (11.8% down to 11.1%)

M.

Yes

and has Labour getting a million fewer votes than in 2017. The main story is the implosion of the Tory vote.

[Ziplobb]

Fast and Spurious said:

Support for Putin?!
You are a bit thick.

yes was just about to post similar thank you
for clarification:
he has never said he ‘supports’ Putin - the vast majority of people who support Farage/Reform actually listen to what he says and understand that

[JagLover]

The pleading of the Tory press

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-nigel-fara...

I had a particular chuckle over the fourth paragraph. Because of course most Conservative MPs stand for none of those things and certainly do not "promote" them.

[ChocolateFrog]

Fast and Spurious said:

ChocolateFrog said:

Reform were doing the rounds locally with a car towing one of those billboard trailers and a loudspeaker.

Farage's grid plastered everywhere.

I was pleased to hear his tacit support for Putin went down like a bowl of cold sick to most people in the polls.

Edited by ChocolateFrog on Wednesday 26th June 21:29

Support for Putin?!
You are a bit thick.

"tacit"

Maybe it is you who are thick?

[ChocolateFrog]

What he said is exactly the same as the propaganda the Kremlin spouts.

He's literally parroting Putin's lines and you call me thick for calling that TACIT support.

[Elysium]

JagLover said:

The pleading of the Tory press

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-nigel-fara...

I had a particular chuckle over the fourth paragraph. Because of course most Conservative MPs stand for none of those things and certainly do not "promote" them.

The final line says it all:

The Spectator said:

The only hope left for those around Sunak is that Reform supporters will, in the end, stop short. They just can’t hate the Tories that much. Can they?

Betrayal is a powerful force in politics. It’s why the Lib Dem’s were cast into oblivion after they sold their souls to help the Conservatives form a govt in 2010.

Johnson betrayed the people who voted for him in 2019. Not just with the £200k freebie makeover of his flat, or the extraordinarily expensive takeaways from Daylesford Organics. It wasn’t the fact the ‘oven ready deal’ vanished, or the lockdowns, or the hypocrisy of Number 10 breaching its own dystopian laws. The real betrayal was a complete failure to do anything whatsoever that represented the views of Conservative voters.

After knifing Johnson in the back and ‘offing’ Liz Truss, Rishi finally got the keys to the kingdom. Then promptly did nothing, leaving us in financial and economic decline, with the highest taxation for a generation and almost nothing to show for it.

They must be punished and the people that particularly want to punish them will not vote for Starmers Labour.

[Jordie Barretts sock]

^^^^^^ is bang on the money.

[Killboy]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/25/re...

[bad company]

Elysium said:

Well who would have thought it. Turns out Labour are going to spend “hundreds of billions” on net~zero.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/26/la...

There’s an old saying about leopards & spots.

[President Merkin]

Jordie Barretts sock said:

^^^^^^ is bang on the money.

what is it though? Saying the Tories didn't serve their voters without articulating what that should have been isn't illuminating. Also begs the question what is it you are agreeing with? But let's leave that for now.

[Wills2]

Elysium said:

Johnson betrayed the people who voted for him in 2019. Not just with the £200k freebie makeover of his flat, or the extraordinarily expensive takeaways from Daylesford Organics. It wasn’t the fact the ‘oven ready deal’ vanished, or the lockdowns, or the hypocrisy of Number 10 breaching its own dystopian laws. The real betrayal was a complete failure to do anything whatsoever that represented the views of Conservative voters.

After knifing Johnson in the back and ‘offing’ Liz Truss, Rishi finally got the keys to the kingdom. Then promptly did nothing, leaving us in financial and economic decline, with the highest taxation for a generation and almost nothing to show for it.

They must be punished and the people that particularly want to punish them will not vote for Starmers Labour.

The inconvenient truth is no one was going to make a fist of Brexit. Cameron walked, May came in and was treated by everyone as a pinata, Boris just grifted and partied his way through until the inevitable happened.

Step up delusional Liz who thought as PM she would be in charge, but found out that the markets were and they had lost faith in the UK, out of those ashes came Rishi who inherited a hollowed out country, poor guy is just sat there with no levers to pull, not sure what people expect him to do.

Soon it will be Starmer's turn, our 6th PM in 8 years, that's the legacy of Brexit political instability coupled with economic and social decline.

Edited by Wills2 on Thursday 27th June 10:15

[turbobloke]

bad company said:

Elysium said:

Well who would have thought it. Turns out Labour are going to spend “hundreds of billions” on net~zero.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/26/la...

There’s an old saying about leopards & spots.

There may well be a honeymoon period, but it won't be long.

President Merkin said:

Jordie Barretts sock said:

^^^^^^ is bang on the money.

what is it though? Saying the Tories didn't serve their voters without articulating what that should have been isn't illuminating. Also begs the question what is it you are agreeing with? But let's leave that for now.

So kind of you to let us leave that for now.

[bad company]

Elysium said:

Betrayal is a powerful force in politics. It’s why the Lib Dem’s were cast into oblivion after they sold their souls to help the Conservatives form a govt in 2010.

Johnson betrayed the people who voted for him in 2019. Not just with the £200k freebie makeover of his flat, or the extraordinarily expensive takeaways from Daylesford Organics. It wasn’t the fact the ‘oven ready deal’ vanished, or the lockdowns, or the hypocrisy of Number 10 breaching its own dystopian laws. The real betrayal was a complete failure to do anything whatsoever that represented the views of Conservative voters.

After knifing Johnson in the back and ‘offing’ Liz Truss, Rishi finally got the keys to the kingdom. Then promptly did nothing, leaving us in financial and economic decline, with the highest taxation for a generation and almost nothing to show for it.

They must be punished and the people that particularly want to punish them will not vote for Starmers Labour.

I’m a natural conservative voter and former party member. Do I join in punishing them now by voting Reform or stick with the conservatives to keep out the inevitable disaster of a big majority labour government?

[President Merkin]

turbobloke said:

So kind of you to let us leave that for now.

You could try engaging in the debate, much easier just to vomit up a bit of cheap snark, clearly. Quickest on the stick to complain when it's in the other direction aren''t you?

[JagLover]

bad company said:

stick with the conservatives to keep out the inevitable disaster of a big majority labour government?

This seems to be a "bubble" preoccupation. In practical terms there is little difference between a Labour majority of 50 or 250. They will still have the votes to do anything they like.

[bad company]

JagLover said:

bad company said:

stick with the conservatives to keep out the inevitable disaster of a big majority labour government?

This seems to be a "bubble" preoccupation. In practical terms there is little difference between a Labour majority of 50 or 250. They will still have the votes to do anything they like.

Sadly true and a frightening prospect. The unions and hard left haven’t said too much in the run up to the election but lets see how long that lasts once Labour are elected.

[Jockman]

bad company said:

Sadly true and a frightening prospect. The unions and hard left haven’t said too much in the run up to the election but lets see how long that lasts once Labour are elected.

By failing to endorse the Party Manifest they’ve actually said quite a lot.

[Elysium]

bad company said:

Elysium said:

Betrayal is a powerful force in politics. It’s why the Lib Dem’s were cast into oblivion after they sold their souls to help the Conservatives form a govt in 2010.

Johnson betrayed the people who voted for him in 2019. Not just with the £200k freebie makeover of his flat, or the extraordinarily expensive takeaways from Daylesford Organics. It wasn’t the fact the ‘oven ready deal’ vanished, or the lockdowns, or the hypocrisy of Number 10 breaching its own dystopian laws. The real betrayal was a complete failure to do anything whatsoever that represented the views of Conservative voters.

After knifing Johnson in the back and ‘offing’ Liz Truss, Rishi finally got the keys to the kingdom. Then promptly did nothing, leaving us in financial and economic decline, with the highest taxation for a generation and almost nothing to show for it.

They must be punished and the people that particularly want to punish them will not vote for Starmers Labour.

I’m a natural conservative voter and former party member. Do I join in punishing them now by voting Reform or stick with the conservatives to keep out the inevitable disaster of a big majority labour government?

Your vote and your decision.

But what if you believe the conservatives have already lost?

Would you vote for Labour or the Lib Dems knowing they don’t remotely represent you?

Is there another fringe candidate that you want to support?

Would you not vote at all?

Or would you vote for Reform to send a message to the Conservatives about what you want them to become?

[Jockman]

Elysium said:

Your vote and your decision.

But what if you believe the conservatives have already lost?

Would you vote for Labour or the Lib Dems knowing they don’t remotely represent you?

Is there another fringe candidate that you want to support?

Would you not vote at all?

Or would you vote for Reform to send a message to the Conservatives about what you want them to become?

That’s a conundrum facing a lot of people I should imagine.

I had a perfect get out of jail card in 2019 as the late Frank Field was standing as an Independent. No way was I voting for BOJO the Clown.

When I’m back in the U.K. at the weekend I’ll see what’s on the postal vote card.