General Election July 2024

[isaldiri]

valiant said:

Yep, the program raised this as well and suggested that we need to take a very long term view on what gets built and where. We need to be thinking 20-30 years in the future about where we want to to be and how to get there. Short term parliamentary thinking is no good when you want to build power stations quickly.

Unfortunately, as you alluded to, stuff gets over-politicised for short term political gain to the detriment of future generations. Just look at HS2. Years in the planning, billions spent before a shovel hits the ground only to be truncated on a political whim.

Now future connectivity is held back, opening the northern powerhouse is now a dead duck, existing infrastructure is still aging and already at capacity and future generations will now not reap the benefits.

Imagine if the Victorians had our current day planning? We’re still reaping the benefits of their foresight that simply wouldn’t happen today.

I don’t disagree in principle but realistically speaking, no politician is willing or able to contemplate anything even close to a 20-30 year window because they don’t think they will be around to reap any immediate benefits. If we’re lucky, long term is 5 years or whenever the next GE is. In most cases it’s simply to the next major poll….

[Digga]

Shutup with Brexit. After the pandemic, both Germany and Poland saw the same drop in HGV drivers, post pandemic, as UK. Did they also Brexit?

https://truckmobility-info.com/shortage-of-drivers...

For those too idle to do anything beyond shouting Brexit, here's the construction data:

[bodhi]

CivicDuties said:

We left the EU on 31/1/2020. We started closing the borders, what was it, March 2020. 6 weeks? Look at the graph, it shows people moving here until it gets to a point just before Brexit, when people would be starting to worry about being allowed to stay afterwards, so it starts to tail off right there, before Covid hit. People may have left then during Covid, but then they couldn't or didn't want to return because of Brexit.

What's throttling the number of construction workers here is your beloved Brexit and the ludicrous rest-of-world immigration system implemented since then, including such gems of policy as preventing people moving here with their families.

So despite the great unwashed voting the wrong way (in your terms) we still had an increasing number of construction workers until mid 2020 (according to that graph anyway) when something happened to make them leave - like I dunno a massive downturn in construction and an inability for them to get home.

Wonder what caused that?

Of course now that's all over and we get to set our own immigration laws, we could maybe encourage them back?

[Puzzles]

I too am a fan of garden cities. Someone told me labour were going to create new cities?

blueg33 said:

Puzzles said:

blueg33 said:

Ill build them.

How many per year can you or the uk realistically build in the next 5 years?

Obv it takes time to scale up but is there going to be an issue getting the labour and skills to build 300k odd houses a year?

My little factory can do 3000 pa, but I can set up new factories in 6 months. Factory built needs fewer specialist skills and is ultimately quicker. Labour can be a challenge but if the factory is in a populous area then generally there isnt a problem. I need circa 40 people to build 1000 houses a year and 80 or so to build 3000 from one factory.

The PLC's are also moving more towards factory production with Vistry, Bellway, Persimmon and Barratt all investing.

We can ramp up to 300k houses quite easily the issue remains planning and land availability. Factories need smooth production, land availability and the randomness of planning means that the production requirement is lumpy.

Its very inefficient to have peaks and troughs in manufacturing if we can smooth it then costs will fall and production will increase, jobs will also be more secure.

Interesting, thank you. Is the biggest hurdle there public opinion? People like bricks and mortar.

If your factory has a website, social media etc I'd be interested to have a look.

Edited by Puzzles on Tuesday 2nd July 16:24

[BikeBikeBIke]

Sway said:

It's not democracy - you've been clear you're happy for a tiny, tiny minority to block anything. Ignoring the potential majority.

Yes, because someone said there was plenty of land. If we've got plenty of land then we can have draconian planning laws allowing a tiny majority to prevent development.

Now if land is in short supply because we're insanely overpopulated maybe that isn't appropriate.

[Sway]

BikeBikeBIke said:

Sway said:

It's not democracy - you've been clear you're happy for a tiny, tiny minority to block anything. Ignoring the potential majority.

Yes, because someone said there was plenty of land. If we've got plenty of land then we can have draconian planning laws allowing a tiny majority to prevent development.

Now if land is in short supply because we're insanely overpopulated maybe that isn't appropriate.

That's palpable nonsense.

Infrastructure is needed where it's needed. Of course if there would be genuine and real damage to a unique environment or habitat, that needs to be mitigated - but a vocal minority should not be able to hold an entire region to ransom.

[blueg33]

Puzzles said:

Interesting, thank you. Is the biggest hurdle there public opinion? People like bricks and mortar.

If your factory has a website, social media etc I'd be interested to have a look.

Edited by Puzzles on Tuesday 2nd July 16:24

I'm not going to reveal the company on a public forum, but its worth googling these, one of them may be my current baby

Greencore Homes - Tiny, interesting product, no automation
EDAROTH - net carbon zero - I was involved in setting this up
Top Hat - volumetric modular
LoCal Homes - Advanced timber frame
Z-pods - interesting and niche
Space4 - brings up persimmon who own it
Matrix - haven't seen these in the flesh

Or just google MMC homes or offsite construction

You can also look at those who have gone bust (generally volumetric systems)

Ilke Homes - was the biggest, killed by planning delays and product issues
Urban Splash Haus - interesting killed by planning delays and need to grow investment
Beattie Passive -
Swan - killed by poor product
Lighthouse - killed by planning delays and product issues
BokLok - still technically alive but poor product
L&G Modular - closed down, planning delays and cost meant issues with producing volume.

[p1stonhead]

48 hours until these charlatans are kicked to the curb. How pathetic can you get. Is anything not literally depicting life right now under the Tories or not an outright lie?

https://x.com/rishisunak/status/180803190715579215...

‘Stop the Supermajority’ is a funny campaign slogan though

Everyone loves confidence eh!

Edited by p1stonhead on Tuesday 2nd July 17:01

[Rufus Stone]

p1stonhead said:

48 hours until these charlatans are kicked to the curb. How pathetic can you get. Is anything in this not an outright lie?

https://x.com/rishisunak/status/180803190715579215...

Stop the Supermajority is a funny campaign slogan though

Edited by p1stonhead on Tuesday 2nd July 16:54

That should be unlawfull.

[President Merkin]

It's pure core vote strategy, get the 70 year olds in Hampshire who've always hated Labour out to vote. It's all they have now. They're cooked.

[bitchstewie]

p1stonhead said:

48 hours until these charlatans are kicked to the curb. How pathetic can you get. Is anything not literally depicting life right now under the Tories or not an outright lie?

https://x.com/rishisunak/status/180803190715579215...

‘Stop the Supermajority’ is a funny campaign slogan though

Everyone loves confidence eh!

It's just chimps on crack at this point.

No idea what to do so begging people not to give Labour a "supermajority" and some st about having dinner with your wife and kids once a week somehow being a bad thing.

[MC Bodge]

bhstewie said:

p1stonhead said:

48 hours until these charlatans are kicked to the curb. How pathetic can you get. Is anything not literally depicting life right now under the Tories or not an outright lie?

https://x.com/rishisunak/status/180803190715579215...

‘Stop the Supermajority’ is a funny campaign slogan though

Everyone loves confidence eh!

It's just chimps on crack at this point.

No idea what to do so begging people not to give Labour a "supermajority" and some st about having dinner with your wife and kids once a week somehow being a bad thing.

48 hours and counting down.

Please don't let the Tories pull a surprise win out of the bag....

[S600BSB]

President Merkin said:

It's pure core vote strategy, get the 70 year olds in Hampshire who've always hated Labour out to vote. It's all they have now. They're cooked.

Aren’t they voting Reform now though?

[MC Bodge]

S600BSB said:

President Merkin said:

It's pure core vote strategy, get the 70 year olds in Hampshire who've always hated Labour out to vote. It's all they have now. They're cooked.

Aren’t they voting Reform now though?

They are on here.

The Tories are far too left wing for them. Apparently.

[turbobloke]

MC Bodge said:

S600BSB said:

President Merkin said:

It's pure core vote strategy, get the 70 year olds in Hampshire who've always hated Labour out to vote. It's all they have now. They're cooked.

Aren’t they voting Reform now though?

They are on here.

If they were American Dems 80+ they could be Potus.

[oyster]

BikeBikeBIke said:

oyster said:

BikeBikeBIke said:

valiant said:

Was a very good program if slightly depressing.

We desperately need growth so we have to improve productivity and we can do that by improving and investing in infrastructure. Planning is a major hurdle especially for national infrastructure like roads, rail, power, etc and we do need to streamline planning for major projects. Nimbyism is a bloody curse in this country.

Yeah. Every time I walk on a green hill I curse the NIMBY tossers in tbe past who preserved it for me.

I'm sure my great grand children will be delighted that our generation covered it in concrete so we could have slightly better material possesions crammed into smaller and smaller houses.

Unless you live in the woods in a hobbit house you're being a complete hypocrite. Your rural idyll used to be uninhabited woodland many centuries ago. Why is it ok for you to live in such beauty but not others?

I want others to have it too. I want local people to have a massive say in planning so everyone gets what they want.

Oh come on, we weren't born yesterday.

Local people having a 'massive' say in planning means just one thing - no development. You've said it yourself.
Of course there should be protections put in place to prevent complete urban sprawl and unsightly developments, but the reality is that most local people are not at all objective in their planning feedback.

[vaud]

MC Bodge said:

48 hours and counting down.

Please don't let the Tories pull a surprise win out of the bag....

Personally as someone who has generally voted Tory (not that I 100% agree with them but they have been the closest alignment)...

...I don't want them to win but nor do I want them annihilated. A super majority isn't healthy - I think we need the ability for the combined power of the opposition + a few ruling party dissenters to be able to influence primary legislation.

Need some opposition to keep the ruling party challenged.

80-100 seats is a healthy majority. Labour with 400-500 seats in total is not good for balanced government...

[hidetheelephants]

vaud said:

MC Bodge said:

48 hours and counting down.

Please don't let the Tories pull a surprise win out of the bag....

Personally as someone who has generally voted Tory (not that I 100% agree with them but they have been the closest alignment)...

...I don't want them to win but nor do I want them annihilated. A super majority isn't healthy - I think we need the ability for the combined power of the opposition + a few ruling party dissenters to be able to influence primary legislation.

Need some opposition to keep the ruling party challenged.

80-100 seats is a healthy majority. Labour with 400-500 seats in total is not good for balanced government...

It makes no difference whether it's a 1 seat majority or 200 the opposition's powers are entirely rhetorical, they have to persuade by the strength of their arguments. If the prime minister is minded they can ignore it all.

[vaud]

hidetheelephants said:

It makes no difference whether it's a 1 seat majority or 200 the opposition's powers are entirely rhetorical, they have to persuade by the strength of their arguments. If the prime minister is minded they can ignore it all.

I understand that. My point is that parties tend to listen if [b]all[b] opposition parties are against them and can vote down a bill.

[swisstoni]

I haven’t looked it up but I expect the ‘super majority’ refers to where, even if all other party’s PMs voted against a motion, Labour would have enough of their own to push anything through.

We may end up being a bit more appreciative of the House of Lords than we have been recently