General Election July 2024

[Rufus Stone]

Sway said:

Generally, the high tax socialist countries with both staggeringly good public services and happy citizenry, everyone pays a big chunk. There's not really a perspective of 'who can afford to' - everyone chips in a decent percentage of whatever income they've got (yes, there's obviously progressive rates, but in some ways less progressive than what we have).

Which is fine. It's not denying someone something they have paid for becsuse they made additional provision for themselves.

[SpidersWeb]

JagLover said:

The Labour definition of working people apparently excludes people with any savings.

www.forbes.com/uk/advisor/savings/average-savings-...

Average savings by age in the UK

AGE GROUP AVERAGE SAVINGS
18 - 24 - £3,636
25 -34 - £3,748
35 - 44 - £5,714
45 - 54 - £9,402
55 - 73 - £18,245
74+ - £36,940


AGE GROUP PERCENTAGE WITH ANY FORM OF SAVINGS ACCOUNT
18-24 - 54%
25-34 - 65%
35-44 - 66%
45-54 - 69%
55-64 - 76%
65-74 - 81%
75+ - 83%

So 1/3 or working age adults have no savings account and the average amount in that account is £5k, and it is only the elderly that buck that trend.

And so to say working people excludes people with savings is just a statement of fact, as the vast majority of working people don't have any savings - yes I know that will come as a shock to the PBDs here.

[Gerradi]

pingu393 said:

Perhaps, I should have spent an extra £100 down the pub, or on fags, every month for the last 40 years

Lliving that lifestyle I doubt most would be collecting SP for long if at all...

Taxes & responsible behaviour, if people who choose to live as Pingu has outlined find they need extensive NHS treatment due to this lifestyle, then I feel that it would be fair for a tax to be applied as they chose this lifestyle...Also Sports injuries , you knw the potential risks yet chose to go hang gliding, Rugby, Horseriding etc ...
Hate me later.

[Kermit power]

irc said:

pingu393 said:

It could get very "interesting".

The only non-workers with money are pensioners and investors.

It would be political suicide to go after pensioners, so it's investors that will be targetted.

Depends. Many pensioners are well off. As NI is really just another tax why are they exempt? Get the crusties to pay NI.

Or another NI tweak would be to increase the NI rate for higher rate taxpayers. After all in Scotland higher rate taxpayers pay the full 8% rate from £43k to £50k and there hasn't been much complaint.

So rather than the current 2% make the current 8% rate up to well past £50k. There are tax rises coming and it won't just be the very richest that pay them.

I'd start by removing the tax free lump sum on the pension of anyone retiring before state pension age without having had children. That group is most able to afford it as they've not had kids, and has also most contributed to the ageing population crisis for the same reason.

[pingu393]

Kermit power said:

I'd start by removing the tax free lump sum on the pension of anyone retiring before state pension age without having had children. That group is most able to afford it as they've not had kids, and has also most contributed to the ageing population crisis for the same reason.

I can just imagine the maternity wards being full of 66 year old female tax avoiders

[Rufus Stone]

Kermit power said:

I'd start by removing the tax free lump sum on the pension of anyone retiring before state pension age without having had children. That group is most able to afford it as they've not had kids, and has also most contributed to the ageing population crisis for the same reason.

Yet reward those who fecklessley breed?

[Boringvolvodriver]

Rufus Stone said:

Your suggestion does not create a decent society. Would you like rich people to be forced to pay for their medical care too? Or perhaps pay more road tax so that poor people can pay less?

Where did I say anything about forcing? The whole point is that those who earn more should surely be expected to contribute more into the pot of money.

You could say that the rich do pay for their medical care by having private cover as well as paying tax and that those who have more money and therefore can afford bigger more expensive cars do pay more road tax already with the £40,000 threshold.

I accept that I will pay more tax than many because I have the disposable income to buy more things so will pay more VAT on the stuff that I buy. Also the more I earn, the more tax I pay.

[ChocolateFrog]

Rufus Stone said:

Kermit power said:

I'd start by removing the tax free lump sum on the pension of anyone retiring before state pension age without having had children. That group is most able to afford it as they've not had kids, and has also most contributed to the ageing population crisis for the same reason.

Yet reward those who fecklessley breed?

It's the white collar jobs that will disappear when AI becomes our new overlords. It's going to be a while before robots are unblocking your bog.

[Boringvolvodriver]

Kermit power said:

I'd start by removing the tax free lump sum on the pension of anyone retiring before state pension age without having had children. That group is most able to afford it as they've not had kids, and has also most contributed to the ageing population crisis for the same reason.

There is already talk that Labour May do away with the 25% tax free element in entirety so be careful what you wish for!

[119]

Boringvolvodriver said:

Kermit power said:

I'd start by removing the tax free lump sum on the pension of anyone retiring before state pension age without having had children. That group is most able to afford it as they've not had kids, and has also most contributed to the ageing population crisis for the same reason.

There is already talk that Labour May do away with the 25% tax free element in entirety so be careful what you wish for!

Indeed.

[Kermit power]

Rufus Stone said:

Kermit power said:

I'd start by removing the tax free lump sum on the pension of anyone retiring before state pension age without having had children. That group is most able to afford it as they've not had kids, and has also most contributed to the ageing population crisis for the same reason.

Yet reward those who fecklessley breed?

Depends. Are you happy to have an ever increasing level of immigration?

If you're not, then we need to have more kids here. Maybe if we take some of the extra tax and spend it on education, we'll be able to create a more efficient future workforce from the kids we do have?

[pingu393]

Boringvolvodriver said:

There is already talk that Labour May do away with the 25% tax free element in entirety so be careful what you wish vote for!

FTFY

[Rufus Stone]

Boringvolvodriver said:

There is already talk that Labour May do away with the 25% tax free element in entirety so be careful what you wish for!

They won't.

[Boringvolvodriver]

pingu393 said:

Boringvolvodriver said:

There is already talk that Labour May do away with the 25% tax free element in entirety so be careful what you wish vote for!

FTFY

Good point, well made!

[Kermit power]

119 said:

Boringvolvodriver said:

Kermit power said:

I'd start by removing the tax free lump sum on the pension of anyone retiring before state pension age without having had children. That group is most able to afford it as they've not had kids, and has also most contributed to the ageing population crisis for the same reason.

There is already talk that Labour May do away with the 25% tax free element in entirety so be careful what you wish for!

Indeed.

I can't see them doing that across the board. Pretty much everyone these days has a pension, so I think too many would view it as increasing income tax via the back door and it would see them out of office for another generation.

[Rufus Stone]

Kermit power said:

Depends. Are you happy to have an ever increasing level of immigration?

If you're not, then we need to have more kids here. Maybe if we take some of the extra tax and spend it on education, we'll be able to create a more efficient future workforce from the kids we do have?

Immigration is fine with me. Saves the cost of childrens education and healthcare.

[Boringvolvodriver]

Kermit power said:

119 said:

Boringvolvodriver said:

Kermit power said:

I'd start by removing the tax free lump sum on the pension of anyone retiring before state pension age without having had children. That group is most able to afford it as they've not had kids, and has also most contributed to the ageing population crisis for the same reason.

There is already talk that Labour May do away with the 25% tax free element in entirety so be careful what you wish for!

Indeed.

I can't see them doing that across the board. Pretty much everyone these days has a pension, so I think too many would view it as increasing income tax via the back door and it would see them out of office for another generation.

You have only got to remember what Brown did with personal pensions in his first budget to think that this is a possibility to generate more income into the coffers somehow

[Rufus Stone]

Boringvolvodriver said:

You have only got to remember what Brown did with personal pensions in his first budget to think that this is a possibility to generate more income into the coffers somehow

Tories have negatively impacted pensions too.

[Murph7355]

Sway said:

Generally, the high tax socialist countries with both staggeringly good public services and happy citizenry, everyone pays a big chunk. There's not really a perspective of 'who can afford to' - everyone chips in a decent percentage of whatever income they've got (yes, there's obviously progressive rates, but in some ways less progressive than what we have).

What sized populations do t hose countries have......?

[pingu393]

119 said:

Boringvolvodriver said:

Kermit power said:

I'd start by removing the tax free lump sum on the pension of anyone retiring before state pension age without having had children. That group is most able to afford it as they've not had kids, and has also most contributed to the ageing population crisis for the same reason.

There is already talk that Labour May do away with the 25% tax free element in entirety so be careful what you wish for!

Indeed.

I could see them decrease it, perhaps to 20%.

If they removed it completely, many pensions for anyone over 55 would be crystallised, before the rule came into effect. That would lead to a stock market "fluctuation", as billions of pounds were converted to cash within days.