Missing lad in Tenerife

[skwdenyer]

No ideas for a name said:

98elise said:

TonyToniTone said:

carl_w said:

rallycross said:

The police said 6 volunteer People turned up to help in the search today

The father has complained that none of them were English. Four Spaniards and two Germans I think.

That's not true, he said he was disappointed that not many brits had volunteered to help.

Which puts a completely different slant on it, and far more likely.

It is somewhat misleading. Apparently the authorities did NOT want a bunch of holiday makers turning up to search.
Guardia Civil said, "To be clear, they are not asking members of the public, but people from volunteer associations or qualified who are experts in the rugged terrain. The area is a rugged, rocky area, full of slopes and with a multitude of ravines, paths and roads."

Ref https://www.canarianweekly.com/posts/The-Guardia-C...

I agree with them. For my sister likewise, we reckoned for every 6 random volunteers we’d have 1 new casualty to deal with.

[WarrenB]

skwdenyer said:

iphonedyou said:

okgo said:

Are you serious! You’re asking if the police can access phone records?

This thread is fking mental.

And there I was thinking the sarcasm was visible from space. By a blind man.

The short answer is, I believe, not all of them. Phone? Surely. Snapchat / WhatsApp / FaceTime? I don’t know.

As I’ve discovered with my sister, there doesn’t appear to be after-the-event tracking of phones easily available, in case it was that sort of record being thought of.

I was thinking about this. Phone would be relatively easy to check the records, but as Snapchat, Whatsapp, Facetime, etc all use mobile data surely it'd be a lot more difficult to trace. With Snapchat and it's vanishing messages and Whatsapp with it's encryption I'm sure it'd be near impossible to investigate without having physical access to both phones.

[airsafari87]

WarrenB said:

I was thinking about this. Phone would be relatively easy to check the records, but as Snapchat, Whatsapp, Facetime, etc all use mobile data surely it'd be a lot more difficult to trace. With Snapchat and it's vanishing messages and Whatsapp with it's encryption I'm sure it'd be near impossible to investigate without having physical access to both phones.

From what I can gather from these 24 hour in police custody type programmes, as long as Snapchat for instance is still installed on the phone, the police can still recover messages.

I’m not sure about WhatsApp?

[Gareth79]

airsafari87 said:

WarrenB said:

I was thinking about this. Phone would be relatively easy to check the records, but as Snapchat, Whatsapp, Facetime, etc all use mobile data surely it'd be a lot more difficult to trace. With Snapchat and it's vanishing messages and Whatsapp with it's encryption I'm sure it'd be near impossible to investigate without having physical access to both phones.

From what I can gather from these 24 hour in police custody type programmes, as long as Snapchat for instance is still installed on the phone, the police can still recover messages.

I’m not sure about WhatsApp?

I imagine all those would rely on the phone being able to be unlocked? I don't think modern phones can have the data dumped unless unlocked. (One now wonders how long a finger's fingerprint is viable...)

[Oliver Hardy]

pingu393 said:

rallycross said:

As this happened in Tenerife would the U.K. police do any investigation at home? As in questioning his pal Lucy and the 2 guys from the air b n b who flew back to the U.K.?

If they did how would that get instigated as no crime has been committed in the U.K. ?

What was the "McCann" crime that was committed in the UK? There is precidence for investigating crimes that affect Britons, but were not committed in the UK.

Didn't the Portuguese authorities agree/accept assistance for the UK police to become involved?

[98elise]

No ideas for a name said:

98elise said:

TonyToniTone said:

carl_w said:

rallycross said:

The police said 6 volunteer People turned up to help in the search today

The father has complained that none of them were English. Four Spaniards and two Germans I think.

That's not true, he said he was disappointed that not many brits had volunteered to help.

Which puts a completely different slant on it, and far more likely.

It is somewhat misleading. Apparently the authorities did NOT want a bunch of holiday makers turning up to search.
Guardia Civil said, "To be clear, they are not asking members of the public, but people from volunteer associations or qualified who are experts in the rugged terrain. The area is a rugged, rocky area, full of slopes and with a multitude of ravines, paths and roads."

Ref https://www.canarianweekly.com/posts/The-Guardia-C...

Yes that was clear, however that doesn't explain why no British volunteers came forward with that expertise (other then it being a smaller pool of people).

[Alickadoo]

98elise said:

Yes that was clear, however that doesn't explain why no British volunteers came forward with that expertise (other then it being a smaller pool of people).

CBA?

[21TonyK]

Alickadoo said:

98elise said:

Yes that was clear, however that doesn't explain why no British volunteers came forward with that expertise (other then it being a smaller pool of people).

CBA?

The local ex-pat community is most likely older/elderly with little or no experience/desire to go hiking around a "treacherous" mountainside in the mid-day sun.

"Better to leave than to the youngsters... now... where's my Gin gone?"

[Southerner]

98elise said:

Yes that was clear, however that doesn't explain why no British volunteers came forward with that expertise (other then it being a smaller pool of people).

Perhaps the British-based search teams were conscious that it’s the start of summer and that their resources are better being used back in the UK for their own rescue requirements? Being specialist, volunteer forces I can’t imagine many of them have a huge number of spare bodies to send on jaunts to Tenerife?

[ecsrobin]

Southerner said:

Perhaps the British-based search teams were conscious that it’s the start of summer and that their resources are better being used back in the UK for their own rescue requirements? Being specialist, volunteer forces I can’t imagine many of them have a huge number of spare bodies to send on jaunts to Tenerife?

Also at this point it’s body recovery if he’s out there rather than rescuing him. Risk to rescuer is always considered.

[Southerner]

ecsrobin said:

Southerner said:

Perhaps the British-based search teams were conscious that it’s the start of summer and that their resources are better being used back in the UK for their own rescue requirements? Being specialist, volunteer forces I can’t imagine many of them have a huge number of spare bodies to send on jaunts to Tenerife?

Also at this point it’s body recovery if he’s out there rather than rescuing him. Risk to rescuer is always considered.

Yes, that too of course. I’m certain that any decent moutain rescue crew will be made of strong stuff indeed, but I wouldn’t like to say whether recovering deceased bodies in very, very warm weather is likely to be something they would go out of their way to do. I certainly wouldn’t fancy it!

[ecsrobin]

Southerner said:

Yes, that too of course. I’m certain that any decent moutain rescue crew will be made of strong stuff indeed, but I wouldn’t like to say whether recovering deceased bodies in very, very warm weather is likely to be something they would go out of their way to do. I certainly wouldn’t fancy it!

It’s not that they wouldn’t like to / want to but if you’re tied up recovering a body when the call comes for an injured person you’re unable to respond to that.

[pingu393]

ecsrobin said:

Southerner said:

Yes, that too of course. I’m certain that any decent moutain rescue crew will be made of strong stuff indeed, but I wouldn’t like to say whether recovering deceased bodies in very, very warm weather is likely to be something they would go out of their way to do. I certainly wouldn’t fancy it!

It’s not that they wouldn’t like to / want to but if you’re tied up recovering a body when the call comes for an injured person you’re unable to respond to that.

I think there have been cases in the Cairngorms where they have left a body over the winter to be collected when the weather improves, so no to risk the recoverers.

[Rusty Old-Banger]

pingu393 said:

ecsrobin said:

Southerner said:

Yes, that too of course. I’m certain that any decent moutain rescue crew will be made of strong stuff indeed, but I wouldn’t like to say whether recovering deceased bodies in very, very warm weather is likely to be something they would go out of their way to do. I certainly wouldn’t fancy it!

It’s not that they wouldn’t like to / want to but if you’re tied up recovering a body when the call comes for an injured person you’re unable to respond to that.

I think there have been cases in the Cairngorms where they have left a body over the winter to be collected when the weather improves, so no to risk the recoverers.

Yeah but that's Scotland - whereas this story involves a civilised country.

(joke!!)

[munroman]

pingu393 said:

ecsrobin said:

Southerner said:

Yes, that too of course. I’m certain that any decent moutain rescue crew will be made of strong stuff indeed, but I wouldn’t like to say whether recovering deceased bodies in very, very warm weather is likely to be something they would go out of their way to do. I certainly wouldn’t fancy it!

It’s not that they wouldn’t like to / want to but if you’re tied up recovering a body when the call comes for an injured person you’re unable to respond to that.

I think there have been cases in the Cairngorms where they have left a body over the winter to be collected when the weather improves, so no to risk the recoverers.

I think that was a case where the snowfall had been so heavy that the body was buried for months, a Mountain Rescue person checked every day, eventually they had to bring in ground penetrating radar at the end of Summer, otherwise the body would have been there over the next winter.

A few years later a guy fell down the same way, landed in a deep snowdrift, and despite leg injuries, managed to make a snow hole.
Shortly afterward he heard a thud, a dog had fallen the same way, the 2 of them huddled together for heat overnight.

Next morning they were limping out and met the Mountain Rescue guys heading in to collect the bodies!

[popegregory]

Why are they asking for volunteers when they’re sat on a £30k find him fund?

[Castrol for a knave]

munroman said:

pingu393 said:

ecsrobin said:

Southerner said:

Yes, that too of course. I’m certain that any decent moutain rescue crew will be made of strong stuff indeed, but I wouldn’t like to say whether recovering deceased bodies in very, very warm weather is likely to be something they would go out of their way to do. I certainly wouldn’t fancy it!

It’s not that they wouldn’t like to / want to but if you’re tied up recovering a body when the call comes for an injured person you’re unable to respond to that.

I think there have been cases in the Cairngorms where they have left a body over the winter to be collected when the weather improves, so no to risk the recoverers.

I think that was a case where the snowfall had been so heavy that the body was buried for months, a Mountain Rescue person checked every day, eventually they had to bring in ground penetrating radar at the end of Summer, otherwise the body would have been there over the next winter.

A few years later a guy fell down the same way, landed in a deep snowdrift, and despite leg injuries, managed to make a snow hole.
Shortly afterward he heard a thud, a dog had fallen the same way, the 2 of them huddled together for heat overnight.

Next morning they were limping out and met the Mountain Rescue guys heading in to collect the bodies!

Yep, true story, it was two lads who fell through a cornice, followed by a random dog- both were members of the YMC, not sure what club the dog was in.

[Petrus1983]

popegregory said:

Why are they asking for volunteers when they’re sat on a £30k find him fund?

I'm watching a guy on TikTok who's an experienced mountain person and is searching for Jay. He says the family are asking him almost on a daily basis if he needs money for food/accommodation - his phone broke over the weekend and they offered to replace it. He's turned it all down, but they are offering.

[popegregory]

Petrus1983 said:

popegregory said:

Why are they asking for volunteers when they’re sat on a £30k find him fund?

I'm watching a guy on TikTok who's an experienced mountain person and is searching for Jay. He says the family are asking him almost on a daily basis if he needs money for food/accommodation - his phone broke over the weekend and they offered to replace it. He's turned it all down, but they are offering.

Fair enough. You fall into the trap of believing the media hype, especially when they want to see the seeds of doubt over people’s motives.

[Rusty Old-Banger]

Petrus1983 said:

popegregory said:

Why are they asking for volunteers when they’re sat on a £30k find him fund?

I'm watching a guy on TikTok who's an experienced mountain person and is searching for Jay. He says the family are asking him almost on a daily basis if he needs money for food/accommodation - his phone broke over the weekend and they offered to replace it. He's turned it all down, but they are offering.

Don't need the ransom money if the boy has been Luca Brasi'd.