47th President of the United States

[g4ry13]

paulguitar said:

g4ry13 said:

You've spent 8 years of your life hating on the guy. I am under no illusion that I am going to influence your opinion in any way now.

We discussed this a bit on one of the other threads earlier. 'Hatred' makes it sound petty and personal. It is much more profound than that. What he did and continues to to the US is unforgivable.

Let's be honest, some of the stuff you guys post on there is petty and personal. Talking about his clothes, his dancing, his hands, farting, sleeping, his weight, his mouth. You sound like a bunch of bhy school girls.

g4ry13 said:

All I can say is that in terms of managing geopolitics and global safety; it has been an absolute disaster under Biden.

paulguitar said:

Do you blame Biden for Russia attacking Ukraine? if that had happened under trump, Ukraine would have received zero support and would almost certainly now be part of Russia.

Russia didn't just randomly attack Ukraine. There were events such as the retreat from Afghanistan which gave a very clear signal that USA is weak and has little appetite for military conflicts. There were also shall we say 'conveniences' in allowing things to escalate in that area.

I am also not thoroughly convinced that things are so binary and that Mr Zelensky is the heroic deity we are made to believe he is but that's for another thread.

[Mortarboard]

Afghan retreat was a trump action, was it not? Processed under bidens tenure, but well underway before he was elected.

M.

[vetrof]

Mortarboard said:

Afghan retreat was a trump action, was it not? Processed under bidens tenure, but well underway before he was elected.

M.

As I recall, Trump placed conditions on the withdrawal, but Biden didn't feel the need for those conditions to be met.

[paulguitar]

g4ry13 said:

paulguitar said:

g4ry13 said:

You've spent 8 years of your life hating on the guy. I am under no illusion that I am going to influence your opinion in any way now.

We discussed this a bit on one of the other threads earlier. 'Hatred' makes it sound petty and personal. It is much more profound than that. What he did and continues to to the US is unforgivable.

Let's be honest, some of the stuff you guys post on there is petty and personal. Talking about his clothes, his dancing, his hands, farting, sleeping, his weight, his mouth. Y

That's a bit of light relief. Let's not be under illusions here, what he's done and what he seeks to continue to do is abhorrent. His personal failings are an area for some amusement because he's preternaturally pompous.

[Byker28i]

Mortarboard said:

Afghan retreat was a trump action, was it not? Processed under bidens tenure, but well underway before he was elected.

M.

It was and he boasted there was nothing Biden could do to reverse it, and thet he'd done it deliberately on losing the election

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congre...

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/trump-claims...

But the cult won't believe evidence, prefering to believe the lies. It's why they have to claim 'hatred', 'TDS' and other suchlike, because they can't admit they were duped.

I don't think you'll find anyone claiming Biden is their preferred Dem candidate, but it is generally you'll get two terms - unless you've been an absolute disater like trump. 600,000 deaths attributed to trumps mishandling of covid, $8tn increased national debt. As he sold us policy and pardons for personal profit...

Meanwhile Bidens sorted out the mess left, despite the GOP's best efforts, the Saudi's cutting production to push oil prices up to hurt Biden etc...

So whilst it comes down to the two, it's only the truely blind think trump would be better.

Bidens is for making the US a better place, trump has multiple convictions as he only sought and still seeks to look after himself only. Defamafion, fraud, rape, more business fraud, election fraud and business fraud...

[Byker28i]

[g4ry13]

vetrof said:

Mortarboard said:

Afghan retreat was a trump action, was it not? Processed under bidens tenure, but well underway before he was elected.

M.

As I recall, Trump placed conditions on the withdrawal, but Biden didn't feel the need for those conditions to be met.

Exactly. People claim Trump did it and Biden's hands were tied.

But Biden introduced plenty of other bills in that time and took credit for it. If Biden considered it was a terrible idea, or not the right way of doing it then he had the power to hit the brakes.

[williamp]

Biden reversed loads of Trumps orders

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN29Y2QM/

And issued a new order to review all the last minute orders.

So he could have stopped the Afghan withdrawal. He could have changed it. I guess he choose not to

[hidetheelephants]

williamp said:

Biden reversed loads of Trumps orders

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN29Y2QM/

And issued a new order to review all the last minute orders.

So he could have stopped the Afghan withdrawal. He could have changed it. I guess he choose not to

He'd have been insane to reverse it, there was no objective other than "not leaving". Asking US service personnel to die because of "not leaving" is bad for morale and morally repugnant.

[paulguitar]

g4ry13 said:

I could call you a simpleton, but i'll avoid the attempt of personal insults.

I'd like to apologise for that. We all have different views on this and my frustration got the better of me.

[g4ry13]

hidetheelephants said:

williamp said:

Biden reversed loads of Trumps orders

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN29Y2QM/

And issued a new order to review all the last minute orders.

So he could have stopped the Afghan withdrawal. He could have changed it. I guess he choose not to

He'd have been insane to reverse it, there was no objective other than "not leaving". Asking US service personnel to die because of "not leaving" is bad for morale and morally repugnant.

Except they were not dying in masses. In fact, the only deaths in 2021 was in August when 13 soldiers died in a suicide bombing at Kabul airport during the shambles of an evacuation.

All that was needed was to retain a tiny military presence to prevent the utter chaos which was left behind from the retreat.

I guess it's "morally repugnant" to keep a small presence in Afghanistan but fine to have them in plenty of other countries all over the globe.

[Mortarboard]

williamp said:

So he could have stopped the Afghan withdrawal. He could have changed it. I guess he choose not to

So was trump lying then?

M.

[williamp]

Mortarboard said:

williamp said:

So he could have stopped the Afghan withdrawal. He could have changed it. I guess he choose not to

So was trump lying then?

M.

Unheard of....

[dvs_dave]

g4ry13 said:

paulguitar said:

g4ry13 said:

paulguitar said:

g4ry13 said:

That's apparently ok because with Biden you get the puppet masters running the show who are supposedly a lot more logical / rational than the bad orange man.

It's a much, much, safer proposition, yes.

In your opinion of course.

The state of geopolitics has not been this bad for a long time from my recollection.

And you seriously think things would better with the involvement of 45?

I can only base it on his presidential term. Based on that: yes.

This beggars belief. How have you become so lost as to actually think this? What alternate reality do you inhabit? Incredible.

[g4ry13]

dvs_dave said:

g4ry13 said:

paulguitar said:

g4ry13 said:

paulguitar said:

g4ry13 said:

That's apparently ok because with Biden you get the puppet masters running the show who are supposedly a lot more logical / rational than the bad orange man.

It's a much, much, safer proposition, yes.

In your opinion of course.

The state of geopolitics has not been this bad for a long time from my recollection.

And you seriously think things would better with the involvement of 45?

I can only base it on his presidential term. Based on that: yes.

This beggars belief. How have you become so lost as to actually think this? What alternate reality do you inhabit? Incredible.

go back to #45 / #46 and enjoy your echo chamber.

[dvs_dave]

g4ry13 said:

go back to #45 / #46 and enjoy your echo chamber.

Weak

What facts/reasons are you basing your opinion on that clearly demonstrates 45 was better than 46, and will subsequently make a better 47?

I’ll make it simple for you; just give us your top three.

[g4ry13]

dvs_dave said:

g4ry13 said:

go back to #45 / #46 and enjoy your echo chamber.

Weak

What facts/reasons are you basing your opinion on that clearly demonstrates 45 was better than 46, and will subsequently make a better 47?

I’ll make it simple for you; just give us your top three.

Trying to put words in my mouth there!

The facts / evidence is that #45 had 4 years and geopolitics were fairly stable. Yes....he sent a few tweets which worried a few people. But everyone played nicely.

As I previously said: The state of geopolitics has not been this bad for a long time from my recollection.

Under the watch of #46 we've had the shambles of the Afghanistan retreat, Russia / Ukraine, Iran / Israel and China have little concern about the USA.

The way I see it, the world is a more dangerous place than it was during 2017 - 2021.

That's my opinion which one doesn't actually have to base on anything to hold. I have no doubt you'll disagree and it makes little difference either way.

[hidetheelephants]

Did you miss him noising up Kim Fat the 3rd? Blowing up syrian positions? Abandoning the Kurds to the depredations of the Turks, Syrians and Russians?

[105.4]

Byker28i said:

Probably best not to bring up mental decline in the next election, because trump is getting really bad now. Slurring, stumbling, losing track

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-glitch-neurological...

Why do you do that?

I don’t know whether or not you are actually aware of this, but it’s been obvious to many for a considerable amount of time that you are not interested in balance, the truth or being objective.

You come across as lacking in sincerity and being nothing more than a propagandist.

Back when I first joined PH in 2005 / 2006 whilst looking for my first TVR, you were always helpful and knowledgeable. But something changed in you between 2011 and 2017 whilst I was on my hiatus.

My following comment comes from a place of compassion, but I do hope that you find the help you so dearly need. You have spoken before of political extremism. I hate to be the one to tell you this, but you are a political extremist. You lack empathy and understanding for those whose political viewpoints don’t match your own. When we look back through history, it isn’t those who are viewed fondly who have similar characteristics.

[Byker28i]

105.4 said:

Byker28i said:

Probably best not to bring up mental decline in the next election, because trump is getting really bad now. Slurring, stumbling, losing track

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-glitch-neurological...

Why do you do that?

I don’t know whether or not you are actually aware of this, but it’s been obvious to many for a considerable amount of time that you are not interested in balance, the truth or being objective.

You come across as lacking in sincerity and being nothing more than a propagandist.

Back when I first joined PH in 2005 / 2006 whilst looking for my first TVR, you were always helpful and knowledgeable. But something changed in you between 2011 and 2017 whilst I was on my hiatus.

My following comment comes from a place of compassion, but I do hope that you find the help you so dearly need. You have spoken before of political extremism. I hate to be the one to tell you this, but you are a political extremist. You lack empathy and understanding for those whose political viewpoints don’t match your own. When we look back through history, it isn’t those who are viewed fondly who have similar characteristics.

Really, that was in response to those claiming Biden was senile... of which there's no evidence. There is of course the fact he stutters and tries to overcome that.
As for balance, I'm always happy to discuss any point, but you'll forgive me if I provide many, many examples of trump doing what others claim. Its a standard trump tell he accuses others of doing what he does/has done.

Not sure why you picked 2011. trump started in 2015 on his quest for the WH, and many have been documenting his crimes, unethical behaviour since.because there's just so much of it. 34000 plus lies during his 4 years, ethics violations, criminal actions.

For the record I don't hate trump, I just find it incredible that with all the examples of his morals, crimes etc, that others still support him, will ignore everything he's done.




I've said many times, we're living through modern history and this is documenting it and it turns out a potus sold us out for personal profit. Unbelievable isn't it...

Still happy to discuss, in fact we had an interesting discussion in the Musk thread about Ai chips diverted from Testa to X. How else do you learn if you don't listen to others opinions. You don't have to agree with them though, as many don't about trump.
Also happy to talk TVR's

Edited by Byker28i on Friday 7th June 19:32