General Election July 2024

[redrabbit29]

isaldiri said:

Well, to be fair, it is almost certainly true for the Tories to be saying however much they had raised the tax burden over the years where they were in power, it would be higher yet under Labour.....

Not saying it's not true. Just saying I'm sick of them fighting on twitter like two drunken teenagers.

It's gutter politics.

None appear credible to me, none of what I've heard I like or trust. These debates are useless. As another said, why are some only including labour and conservatives?

Why are they allowed to lie with no consequences, and constantly interrupt.

These people are supposed to be trusted, mature, credible and strong leaders. I see absolutely none of it.

[wc98]

hidetheelephants said:

Marine Scotland are about as much use as an empty toilet roll is to a diahorrea sufferer. They're tucked up in bed with the fish farm giants and trawlers do what they like. I'd moan about unsafely marked pots, but it's a waste of time as the required buoy spec is unsafe and most meet it, at least the continentals put flags on theirs and the 3 mile limit is still a distant memory. But it's ok, because the govt really cares about the environment and isn't allowing corporations to fk the environment for profit.

You ever been out in a boat in the Forth ? I reckon the pots are responsible for removing between 250,000 and 500,000 immature codling every year depending on the previous years recruitment. Some areas virtually impossible to drift any distance without hitting one.

SNP also responsible for lifting the automatic 5kfine for being caught in possession of a single strand mono gill net. Not hard to see what has happened to Salmon in some areas as a result. Reinstating the 3 mile limit should be high on the agenda, most commercial fishermen i know are supportive of it but it would probably be a waste of time given lack of enforcement.

At least farmed Bass ease the pressure on UK stocks. They aren't farmed in the polluting ways of farmed Salmon,from what i could gather they are wild fry trapped at certain times in lagoons and grown on, though i don't think the numbers stack up with the amount that are sold as farmed vs what actually comes out of the farms. Lots of undersize Bass sold at markets, particularly in the south west with no one giving a st and some MP's actually supporting the people doing it.

[jdw100]

philv said:

Face it, are the uk public really going to vote in a funny little rich Indian guy?
Were a naturally prejudiced society.

I recently read Starmer is also a short chap; 5’ 8”.

Instead of voting the result could just be decided by a game of dwarf throwing or midget bowling.

[FMOB]

I was glad the Beeb allowed the 'are you two the best we have got question', there were gasps from the audience when that got asked.

Sums up where I am, they are both poor but Sunak would probably cost the country less.

[JagLover]

Yet another poll

Electoral Calculus MRP poll

Labour 450
Lib Dems 71
Cons 60
Reform 18

but I think this comment sums up this election

Electoralcalculus said:

The Conservatives are predicted to be in third place in terms of both votes and seats. That would be a disaster for them. Labour look set for a massive landslide, but with about one million fewer votes than Jeremy Corbyn got in 2017

[DeejRC]

wc98 said:

hidetheelephants said:

Marine Scotland are about as much use as an empty toilet roll is to a diahorrea sufferer. They're tucked up in bed with the fish farm giants and trawlers do what they like. I'd moan about unsafely marked pots, but it's a waste of time as the required buoy spec is unsafe and most meet it, at least the continentals put flags on theirs and the 3 mile limit is still a distant memory. But it's ok, because the govt really cares about the environment and isn't allowing corporations to fk the environment for profit.

You ever been out in a boat in the Forth ? I reckon the pots are responsible for removing between 250,000 and 500,000 immature codling every year depending on the previous years recruitment. Some areas virtually impossible to drift any distance without hitting one.

SNP also responsible for lifting the automatic 5kfine for being caught in possession of a single strand mono gill net. Not hard to see what has happened to Salmon in some areas as a result. Reinstating the 3 mile limit should be high on the agenda, most commercial fishermen i know are supportive of it but it would probably be a waste of time given lack of enforcement.

At least farmed Bass ease the pressure on UK stocks. They aren't farmed in the polluting ways of farmed Salmon,from what i could gather they are wild fry trapped at certain times in lagoons and grown on, though i don't think the numbers stack up with the amount that are sold as farmed vs what actually comes out of the farms. Lots of undersize Bass sold at markets, particularly in the south west with no one giving a st and some MP's actually supporting the people doing it.

Hmm. Not sure you are correct on plenty of under sized Bass being sold in the markets down in the SW. Well, by not sure I mean - there aren’t. Given that A) I live down here and B) fishmonger family. I have an inkling of what I’m looking at, looking for, eating and fish in general. I was born, raised and hauled up on docks.

[robemcdonald]

I dipped in and out of the debate last night.

If audience applause was the metric by which these things are measured I would say Sunak probably won.

For my part I found his general manner disrespectful. Constantly talking over the presenter and Starmer, but the audience seemed to lap it up.

The whole “I’m going to put every single immigrant on an airplane to a country that we have a deal with to take about a days worth every year” thing is pathetic, but got the biggest applause of the eventing. I can only assume the prime minister’s plan for improving mathematics hasn’t quite reached Nottingham yet.

I’m not sure the debate will cost Starmer any votes (at least not with anyone that knows 50,000 is quite a bit more than 300 anyway)

Like others have said unless Kier Starmer had £50 each way on the date Labour published their manifesto I think this is pretty much done.

I’m off to the bookies to put some money on what date Sunak is fking off to America. I’m going with 19th July.

[Bonefish Blues]

wc98 said:

Hopefully all using farmed Bass given the parlous state of UK stocks and the high chance if bought here it was caught using illegal methods due to the fact that the people charged with policing and managing our marine environment as about as effective as our politicians on a good day.

bass. Correct name usage is a rarity and is worthy of celebration

[Boom78]

A few things following watching the debate:

I wholeheartedly agree with the guy who asked are these really the best we’ve got!

Since being in power (certainly since boris days) the cons have been st, however starmer is making his ascent to no10 very hard, this should be a cakewalk, he doesn’t have answers, is vague and uninspiring. Last night was no exception.

I don’t understand why the protesters weren’t shut down/moved away. Made viewing/listening very hard. Ruined the debate. I agree we should have the right to protest but not hinder democracy in action.

Why can’t either of them provide real answers? It’s not hard; what are your tax plans? How will you fund xyz? What’s your vision on abc?

Why do they have to keep repeating/asking the names of people asking the questions? It’s insincere, you don’t really care about Dave or Karen… get on with answering!

[Bonefish Blues]

I do wonder what SKS has to do to be 'worthy'.

[Kermit power]

Digga said:

captain_cynic said:

loafer123 said:

CivicDuties said:

It's pretty relevant to the General Election, I'd say. Or, at least, it should be, but Labour and Tory want to ignore it.

And it's not about Brexit. That's over, it happened. It's about what we can do to improve GDP, that's the point I was responding to. An easy way to do that is to join the SM and CU, and I intend to vote for a party which has that in its Manifesto.

Edited by CivicDuties on Wednesday 26th June 16:49

It’s really helping the performance of those leading EU economies. /s

Still doing better than us.

It depends on what “better” means.

On certain GDP growth measures, manufacturing PMIs etc. then the UK is doing well. Now 4th largest exporter, for example.

If we look at roads, hospitals etc. etc. then we’re barely scraping our way into the OECD top ten.

This is a good example of just how difficult it can be to get to the bottom of the truth behind the stats.

BBC More or Less looked into that claim that we've risen to 4th in the export league since Brexit a couple of weeks ago, and it turns out that it's sort of true, but only if you include the export of precious metals such as gold.

Now I don't of course wish to belittle the strengths of the UK gold mining industry, but it's not the amount pulled out of the ground here that moves the needle on exports but the amount of the stuff traded in the City, which can often count as an "export" without even leaving the country.

If you strip out exports of precious metals which aren't really exports at all in the way most people think of exports, then we drop back down to something like 8th. Still a highly creditable performance for a relatively small country with a heavily services-heavy industry, but not 4th, and not something which has improved since Brexit.

[JagLover]

Kermit power said:

This is a good example of just how difficult it can be to get to the bottom of the truth behind the stats.

BBC More or Less looked into that claim that we've risen to 4th in the export league since Brexit a couple of weeks ago, and it turns out that it's sort of true, but only if you include the export of precious metals such as gold.

Now I don't of course wish to belittle the strengths of the UK gold mining industry, but it's not the amount pulled out of the ground here that moves the needle on exports but the amount of the stuff traded in the City, which can often count as an "export" without even leaving the country.

If you strip out exports of precious metals which aren't really exports at all in the way most people think of exports, then we drop back down to something like 8th. Still a highly creditable performance for a relatively small country with a heavily services-heavy industry, but not 4th, and not something which has improved since Brexit.

We also import LNG and then export it through the pipeline network. Have to strip out these factors to look at economic performance.

[Murph7355]

JagLover said:

We also import LNG and then export it through the pipeline network. Have to strip out these factors to look at economic performance.

It all depends what you want to measure.

Do these trades have economic value? Are they included for all other countries in the league tables?

This is where things get muddy. Anyone can add or subtract chunks, choose different start points etc etc to support any argument they wish to make.

The real problem is that these plums set their stalls out in stupid ways and cannot be honest when things don't turn out exactly as intended. So they all then start twisting and turning.

Partly I get it. Every last morsel is seized upon by the media and us. But they need to be better at heading that off, not constantly try to cover up.

As an example, even 8th is not a bad showing in context. A while ago my OH was noting how we don't make anything any more... She was surprised when I told her we were 8th. So it hasn't changed since Brexit. Why would it? Govt have done nothing to encourage that. But equally, despite all the FUD of the last 8yrs it hasn't gone down either.

[98elise]

Bonefish Blues said:

I do wonder what SKS has to do to be 'worthy'.

To who? He's going to win the election so he's worthy to the majority.

Personally I can't get over his support for Corbyn and how much of a clusterfk that would have been. Power at any cost.

The Tories have taxed me out of work so they won't be getting my vote.

[Tom8]

FMOB said:

I was glad the Beeb allowed the 'are you two the best we have got question', there were gasps from the audience when that got asked.

Sums up where I am, they are both poor but Sunak would probably cost the country less.

It is extremely underwhelming but then it was ever thus. Look at the choice facing the US. South Park were spot on.

With the debates it makes it all a bit presidential. It is a shame you don't get to see who will make up the cabinet. For Starmer that would be a nightmare. Lammy, Rayner, take your pick of idiotic left winger. Having said that it isn't really much better for the conservatives.

[turbobloke]

Tom8 said:

FMOB said:

I was glad the Beeb allowed the 'are you two the best we have got question', there were gasps from the audience when that got asked.

Sums up where I am, they are both poor but Sunak would probably cost the country less.

It is extremely underwhelming but then it was ever thus. Look at the choice facing the US. South Park were spot on.

With the debates it makes it all a bit presidential. It is a shame you don't get to see who will make up the cabinet. For Starmer that would be a nightmare. Lammy, Rayner, take your pick of idiotic left winger. Having said that it isn't really much better for the conservatives.

Local radio gave a summary and claimed a draw, then their vox pops said 'Rishi was more convincing' and 'Starmer still wouldn't answer the questions' which bear no relation to their summary nor to voting intent in the polls.

[SWoll]

Bonefish Blues said:

I do wonder what SKS has to do to be 'worthy'.

Nothing he can do, he's an empty suit and everyone knows it.

A tiny proportion of the Labour vote will be due to positive feelings towards him or his party, this election is all about teaching the Tories a lesson for the vast majority. The laughable thing is I really don't think they give a st.

[Garvin]

SWoll said:

Bonefish Blues said:

I do wonder what SKS has to do to be 'worthy'.

Nothing he can do, he's an empty suit and everyone knows it.

A tiny proportion of the Labour vote will be due to positive feelings towards him or his party, this election is all about teaching the Tories a lesson for the vast majority. The laughable thing is I really don't think they give a st.

Teach the Tories a lesson? Well, yes, but the electorate is also about to teach itself a huge lesson if the polls are anywhere near accurate!

[Unreal]

Garvin said:

SWoll said:

Bonefish Blues said:

I do wonder what SKS has to do to be 'worthy'.

Nothing he can do, he's an empty suit and everyone knows it.

A tiny proportion of the Labour vote will be due to positive feelings towards him or his party, this election is all about teaching the Tories a lesson for the vast majority. The laughable thing is I really don't think they give a st.

Teach the Tories a lesson? Well, yes, but the electorate is also about to teach itself a huge lesson if the polls are anywhere near accurate!

Yep. It will make the 'mistake' of voting for Brexit look about as serious as choosing the wrong TV channel to watch the news.

Having said that, I'm prepared to be surprised but I will be astonished if that Calculus poll turns out to be accurate.

Edited by Unreal on Thursday 27th June 09:51

[isaldiri]

Bonefish Blues said:

I do wonder what SKS has to do to be 'worthy'.

Offer more than ‘not being a tory’. The latter is sufficient to get him in given the pathetic shambles the conservatives are in but his certain victory has got very little to do with people believing in him personally and what he believes in - which mainly seems to be whatever that might get him up the greasy pole.