CV19 - Cure Worse Than The Disease? (Vol 19)
Discussion
RemarkLima said:
Apologies, read it the wrong way round. With soldiers, aren't they exempt from prosecution if they are following orders? And it's the generals, leaders and upper echelons that are prosecuted for war crimes? The rank and file are generally understood to have "just been following orders"? I'm not even an honorary member of the 58th Chairborne Division like most of the internet so not sure how this works and if there's differences for war time vs peace time etc...
no."only following orders" is famously no defence. They are obliged to refuse to perform war cimes.
grumbledoak said:
no.
"only following orders" is famously no defence. They are obliged to refuse to perform war cimes.
What if they do not know nor think what they are doing is war crimes? If a medic is giving you an injection that they believe is "safe and effective", is that different to the military unit that is told to destroy a convoy / village / town. This later turns out to be civilian and of no threat... Or was known to those giving order that it was no threat, but not to those performing the destruction?"only following orders" is famously no defence. They are obliged to refuse to perform war cimes.
My laboured point is that a nurse, who has been giving vaccines to thousands of people per year, of all kinds and all ages, is asked to give another vaccine to people. They have been told it's OK, they believe it's OK, everything is telling the everyone is all OK, why would they question it?
ETA: I do know a nurse who chose early retirement rather than give out the unapproved vaccines - but they had a choice as could retire and throw in the towel. Like many others, if you have a family to feed, the options to become limited.
Edited by RemarkLima on Tuesday 18th June 12:01
I was skeptical from the start, didn't like the way is was miraculously discovered in such a short time, then like others on here, wasn't convinced about the testing.
Blood clot stories came along quite soon and Mrs UIF has family history of blood clots so that was it.
My GP then told me not to have it. The GP practice has never done a jab, the answerphone message told you to ring some helpline for the nearest vax centre and the practice has never sent anyone I know a reminder.
Blood clot stories came along quite soon and Mrs UIF has family history of blood clots so that was it.
My GP then told me not to have it. The GP practice has never done a jab, the answerphone message told you to ring some helpline for the nearest vax centre and the practice has never sent anyone I know a reminder.
RemarkLima said:
What if they do not know nor think what they are doing is war crimes? If a medic is giving you an injection that they believe is "safe and effective", is that different to the military unit that is told to destroy a convoy / village / town. This later turns out to be civilian and of no threat... Or was known to those giving order that it was no threat, but not to those performing the destruction?
My laboured point is that a nurse, who has been giving vaccines to thousands of people per year, of all kinds and all ages, is asked to give another vaccine to people. They have been told it's OK, they believe it's OK, everything is telling the everyone is all OK, why would they question it?
ETA: I do know a nurse who chose early retirement rather than give out the unapproved vaccines - but they had a choice as could retire and throw in the towel. Like many others, if you have a family to feed, the options to become limited.
Well, they should question it, and as you know some did. My point was only that medics should not have or expect blanket immunity. No-one should get that.My laboured point is that a nurse, who has been giving vaccines to thousands of people per year, of all kinds and all ages, is asked to give another vaccine to people. They have been told it's OK, they believe it's OK, everything is telling the everyone is all OK, why would they question it?
ETA: I do know a nurse who chose early retirement rather than give out the unapproved vaccines - but they had a choice as could retire and throw in the towel. Like many others, if you have a family to feed, the options to become limited.
PRTVR said:
grumbledoak said:
RemarkLima said:
That was the point of the Milgram experiment... Just following orders is a baked in human condition. So, regardless of what people think, it's what people do.
That was the point of my last question. We do understand this, so we have explicit laws for soldiers ordered to commit war crimes. Why should we make an exception for medical staff?I was, and remain, concerned at the 'jab everyone' policy that was so vigorously pursued by the UK authorities and media. There was no good reason for healthy people under a certain age to have the vaccines, and probably little merit vaccinating those who'd had Covid-19 already.
However, I don't regret having the vaccine myself, because I'm over 60 with a reasonably serious health condition. I read what I could about the vaccine (Pfizer in my case) and concluded that the benefit outweighed the risk. I advised my wife and (adult) children that they didn't need it, but they ignored me, no doubt influenced by the pro-vaccine propaganda I just mentioned.
My circle of friends, colleagues and family extends to, I suppose, around a hundred people. I do not know of a single instance of vaccine damage in that circle, bar perhaps the odd sore arm for a couple of days. That in no way diminishes the experiences that some have described on here, but my anecdotes are just as valid as anyone else's.
Calls for prosecution of NHS staff for administering Covid-19 vaccines are fruit loopery of the highest order. For a start, the extent of vaccine damage has yet to be properly established.
However, I don't regret having the vaccine myself, because I'm over 60 with a reasonably serious health condition. I read what I could about the vaccine (Pfizer in my case) and concluded that the benefit outweighed the risk. I advised my wife and (adult) children that they didn't need it, but they ignored me, no doubt influenced by the pro-vaccine propaganda I just mentioned.
My circle of friends, colleagues and family extends to, I suppose, around a hundred people. I do not know of a single instance of vaccine damage in that circle, bar perhaps the odd sore arm for a couple of days. That in no way diminishes the experiences that some have described on here, but my anecdotes are just as valid as anyone else's.
Calls for prosecution of NHS staff for administering Covid-19 vaccines are fruit loopery of the highest order. For a start, the extent of vaccine damage has yet to be properly established.
I was one of those who was convinced I'd had COVID in December 2019 so I wasn't in a hurry to take the shot, but on the balance of probability that what I had wasn't COVID and having two doctors in the family I was convinced to go and roll my sleeves up.
I actually searched out the AZ jab for a couple of reasons - first my nephew's fiancee was involved in the production, and we had a poster on here (Wiccan of Darkness iirc) who called it the "monkey snot vaccine", which in a weird way sold it to me completely
Don't regret that - only side effect I had was feeling like I did in December 2019 the day after the first shot and some cold sweats which I discovered were me using cocodamol rather than paracetamol afterwards - and when the wife had COVID in November 2021, despite her coughing all over me all night I had zero symptoms whatsoever.
I may have caught it but I'm not the sort of person to do a test when I feel fine, so we'll never know
The booster I only had due to a work trip to Paris, where my vaccine passport was never checked, so with hindsight I wouldn't have that again. Again no side effects but I'm not a fan of unnecessary medication.
I didn't have a massive issue with the vaccines themselves - although i do feel for anyone who had an adverse reaction - the mandates and coercion round them tho were bang out of order, and hopefully will never be repeated on that scale.
I actually searched out the AZ jab for a couple of reasons - first my nephew's fiancee was involved in the production, and we had a poster on here (Wiccan of Darkness iirc) who called it the "monkey snot vaccine", which in a weird way sold it to me completely
Don't regret that - only side effect I had was feeling like I did in December 2019 the day after the first shot and some cold sweats which I discovered were me using cocodamol rather than paracetamol afterwards - and when the wife had COVID in November 2021, despite her coughing all over me all night I had zero symptoms whatsoever.
I may have caught it but I'm not the sort of person to do a test when I feel fine, so we'll never know
The booster I only had due to a work trip to Paris, where my vaccine passport was never checked, so with hindsight I wouldn't have that again. Again no side effects but I'm not a fan of unnecessary medication.
I didn't have a massive issue with the vaccines themselves - although i do feel for anyone who had an adverse reaction - the mandates and coercion round them tho were bang out of order, and hopefully will never be repeated on that scale.
andyA700 said:
r3g said:
andyA700 said:
If you are been told that you cannot go to certain places unless you have the vaccine, or that you will lose your job if you don't get vaccinated, then I would say that goes a lot further than cajoling or emotional blackmailing - it is in fact actual blackmailing and abuse.
Agreed. But people still had the choice whether to submit to their blackmail demands for an easy life, or whether to stand firm, say no and deal with whatever fall-out or inconveniences to their life that may come as a result of that.decision. Sadly, a lot of those people who took the easy path have now paid with their life or are having to live with varying scales of pain and disabilities from the vaxx damage for the rest of their lives.Every single person complicit in pushing these questionable substances should be doing life in jail imo, and that includes most of the GPs and nurses.
I will begrudgingly give the other medical staff a pass who genuinely thought they were doing the right thing with the best of intent.
You call it the "stupidest thing you've ever heard" but if the NHS was staffed with doctors and nurses with integrity who would say no when they knew the treatment they were being told to give was not right and could cause harm, rather than an NHS full of order followers and corrupt doctors receiving payment from Big Pharma for pushing their drugs and "vaccines", then you might not be in the mess you're in now. I seem to recall from your posts not long ago that the NHS have basically tossed you aside and are doing nothing to help you, nor give a single hoot that their "vaccines" have messed you up, so why you care so much about the NHS is a bit of a puzzler.
r3g said:
andyA700 said:
r3g said:
andyA700 said:
If you are been told that you cannot go to certain places unless you have the vaccine, or that you will lose your job if you don't get vaccinated, then I would say that goes a lot further than cajoling or emotional blackmailing - it is in fact actual blackmailing and abuse.
Agreed. But people still had the choice whether to submit to their blackmail demands for an easy life, or whether to stand firm, say no and deal with whatever fall-out or inconveniences to their life that may come as a result of that.decision. Sadly, a lot of those people who took the easy path have now paid with their life or are having to live with varying scales of pain and disabilities from the vaxx damage for the rest of their lives.Every single person complicit in pushing these questionable substances should be doing life in jail imo, and that includes most of the GPs and nurses.
I will begrudgingly give the other medical staff a pass who genuinely thought they were doing the right thing with the best of intent.
You call it the "stupidest thing you've ever heard" but if the NHS was staffed with doctors and nurses with integrity who would say no when they knew the treatment they were being told to give was not right and could cause harm, rather than an NHS full of order followers and corrupt doctors receiving payment from Big Pharma for pushing their drugs and "vaccines", then you might not be in the mess you're in now. I seem to recall from your posts not long ago that the NHS have basically tossed you aside and are doing nothing to help you, nor give a single hoot that their "vaccines" have messed you up, so why you care so much about the NHS is a bit of a puzzler.
.r3g said:
Getting more treatment by the same people who gave you life-long disabilities is definitely going to end well for you! /s
Trust the NHS eh.
It truly is the Idiocracy movie playing out for real.
You would look slightly more idiotic rocking up to an empty hospital having jailed all the doctors and nurses because they did what their employer recommended. Trust the NHS eh.
It truly is the Idiocracy movie playing out for real.
andyA700 said:
You said that "everyone complicit in pushing these questionable substances should be doing life in jail". That is ridiculous IMHO. We are not talking about people running death camps in Nazi Germany, we are talking about a majority of NHS staff who were simply doing their jobs, administering vaccines during a global pandemic which claimed millions of lives. I blame the politicians and the pharmaceutical companies, for their sheer corruption and greed, then and now.
I agree, I don't consider it fair to blame the doctors and nurses on the front line, who I think were trying to do their job as best they could in the circumstances, though I do consider the politicians incompetent, corrupt and greedyI will repost my post with highlighting as the thread seems to be full of people incapable of reading.
r3g said:
I will amend my statement to say that those who knew it was wrong or had deep concerns/suspicions over what they were being told, but went ahead and did it anyway "just following orders / my job is more important than me being complicit in taking someone's life" should all be in jail, and yes that starts with the government. There were huge numbers of videos on social media from nurses and doctors around the world who knew it was all BS and these vaccines were doing great harm to a lot of people, but with the exception of a few, most continued to follow their orders to intubate and suffocate the oldies and/or give them midazolam because they didn't want to lose their jobs, along with happily injecting the juice into people mutiple times despite having regular occurrences of patients collapsing at their feet or having heart attacks within minutes after administering them. They all knew what they were doing was wrong.
I will begrudgingly give the other medical staff a pass who genuinely thought they were doing the right thing with the best of intent.
You call it the "stupidest thing you've ever heard" but if the NHS was staffed with doctors and nurses with integrity who would say no when they knew the treatment they were being told to give was not right and could cause harm, rather than an NHS full of order followers and corrupt doctors receiving payment from Big Pharma for pushing their drugs and "vaccines", then you might not be in the mess you're in now. I seem to recall from your posts not long ago that the NHS have basically tossed you aside and are doing nothing to help you, nor give a single hoot that their "vaccines" have messed you up, so why you care so much about the NHS is a bit of a puzzler.
I will begrudgingly give the other medical staff a pass who genuinely thought they were doing the right thing with the best of intent.
You call it the "stupidest thing you've ever heard" but if the NHS was staffed with doctors and nurses with integrity who would say no when they knew the treatment they were being told to give was not right and could cause harm, rather than an NHS full of order followers and corrupt doctors receiving payment from Big Pharma for pushing their drugs and "vaccines", then you might not be in the mess you're in now. I seem to recall from your posts not long ago that the NHS have basically tossed you aside and are doing nothing to help you, nor give a single hoot that their "vaccines" have messed you up, so why you care so much about the NHS is a bit of a puzzler.
Boringvolvodriver said:
Since we are on the confessions of the unvaccinated..
Neither me or my partner had the Covid vaccines despite the pressure, predominantly from her work. I wasn't comfortable with the pressure being put on people to have the vaccine, how vague the benefits seemed to be yet the bullish tactics to have it. So the vaccine didn't prevent you getting it, and importantly didn't stop you spreading it, therefore I wasn't putting others at risk of catching it as if they'd had the vaccine then they're covered or as we were told it lessened the symptoms. I weighed up a very newly developed vaccine vs the likelihood of being severely affected by Covid and opted out. There were other thoughts as well but those were my main thoughts.
My other half had similar thoughts although I wouldn't have had an issue had she opted for the vaccine. She was at risk of problems at work right up until the day the NHS did a U-turn and the pressure was dropped.
Now, I know what the news told us regarding Covid deaths but I personally didn't know of anyone who died directly as a result of Covid. I knew plenty of people who'd had it, I had it twice (the second time I wouldn't have known other than testing). The daughter of my eldest is practically queuing up for every single vaccine they off, diligently has them and yet has had Covid three times and been hit hard by it. The last time according to her husband was because, 'She was 3 weeks later having the jab'. That baffled me a bit to be honest.
What I have seen first hand is a healthy builder I used have a heart attack within 4-5 hours of his jab. I have spoken with someone who had a swollen heart as a result of the jab. There are other coincidences but that's all they are that make me wonder.
Ultimately despite some (not aimed at anyone here) very sanctimonious people branding people as selfish or foolish for not having it. I don't have any regrets not having it but I am aware of several people I know who wish they hadn't.
Elysium said:
r3g said:
Getting more treatment by the same people who gave you life-long disabilities is definitely going to end well for you! /s
Trust the NHS eh.
It truly is the Idiocracy movie playing out for real.
You would look slightly more idiotic rocking up to an empty hospital having jailed all the doctors and nurses because they did what their employer recommended. Trust the NHS eh.
It truly is the Idiocracy movie playing out for real.
Big notice when you go to casualty.
HOSPITAL CLOSED UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE - STAFF ATTENDING NUREMBURG (COVID) TRIALS
r3g said:
Getting more treatment by the same people who gave you life-long disabilities is definitely going to end well for you! /s
Trust the NHS eh.
It truly is the Idiocracy movie playing out for real.
You were happy enough for the NHS to treat you when you needed it as posted on this thread Trust the NHS eh.
It truly is the Idiocracy movie playing out for real.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
There does seem to be a pattern that you hate the police, think the NHS is useless and probably numerous other spurious bull as well. Maybe you just have an issue with authority until it is benefit to you. You know those "doctors accepting back-handers from big pharma" until you need some pharmaceuticals.
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