CV19 - Cure Worse Than The Disease? (Vol 19)

[RemarkLima]

alangla said:

Article in the Scotsman about how politicians on the campaign trail are oddly silent about their position on Covid, apart from Sunak talking specifically about furlough: https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/the-covid-co...

It's an interesting point - almost like just a all look away and just ignore it now (everyone has moved on anyway )

Elysium said:

I am interested in your decision to have the vaccine.

Did you feel coerced into having it for the ‘greater good’, or did you think there would be direct benefit to you?

Were you also aware that there was a risk of side effects, as is the case with most vaccines?

Do you think the side effect risk is significantly higher than we were told?

Call to order! I appreciate the reasonable line of questioning, but even armed with all the information, the pressure to get vaccinated was massive - every channel, every person "did their bit" to end the pandemic. You either did it through fear of death, did it to go on your holibobs, or the most insidious, for the good of society and the only means to end continued lockdowns.

Unless you had a supportive network sympathetic to your wishes, you would be fighting every instinct as we're hardwired to be part of a larger society.

The fact that "anti-vax" is still a thing and that "the great unvaxxed didn't help end the pandemic" is still a belief shows just how much faith was put into it all.

So it's a bit unfair to ask that question, as it's not in insolation. Did you feel coerced? Given what you now know, would you get vaccinated against Covid 19?

[Elysium]

RemarkLima said:

Elysium said:

I am interested in your decision to have the vaccine.

Did you feel coerced into having it for the ‘greater good’, or did you think there would be direct benefit to you?

Were you also aware that there was a risk of side effects, as is the case with most vaccines?

Do you think the side effect risk is significantly higher than we were told?

Call to order! I appreciate the reasonable line of questioning, but even armed with all the information, the pressure to get vaccinated was massive - every channel, every person "did their bit" to end the pandemic. You either did it through fear of death, did it to go on your holibobs, or the most insidious, for the good of society and the only means to end continued lockdowns.

Unless you had a supportive network sympathetic to your wishes, you would be fighting every instinct as we're hardwired to be part of a larger society.

The fact that "anti-vax" is still a thing and that "the great unvaxxed didn't help end the pandemic" is still a belief shows just how much faith was put into it all.

So it's a bit unfair to ask that question, as it's not in insolation. Did you feel coerced? Given what you now know, would you get vaccinated against Covid 19?

There is no ill intention, I am just trying to understand. Apologies if that seemed intrusive.

I was always opposed to the coercion because I knew people would be injured by the vaccine.

I can see three reasons why someone who was injured might be aggrieved:

1. If they would not have agreed to vaccination without the coercion

2. If they felt the harms of the vaccine were not disclosed.

3. If they feel the harms were disclosed, but are significantly worse than we are told.

The first two go hand in hand and are the reason why we have informed consent. I resent having the mRNA booster and only did because of the need to travel for work. If I had been injured by it I would see that coercion as the cause.

The third one is a bit different. And I think this is where we are seeing some change. I was never convinced the vaccines should have been given to younger healthy people and this becomes a really big issue if they were less safe for that group than was claimed.

[B'stard Child]

RemarkLima said:

alangla said:

Article in the Scotsman about how politicians on the campaign trail are oddly silent about their position on Covid, apart from Sunak talking specifically about furlough: https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/the-covid-co...

It's an interesting point - almost like just a all look away and just ignore it now (everyone has moved on anyway )

Elysium said:

I am interested in your decision to have the vaccine.

Did you feel coerced into having it for the ‘greater good’, or did you think there would be direct benefit to you?

Were you also aware that there was a risk of side effects, as is the case with most vaccines?

Do you think the side effect risk is significantly higher than we were told?

Call to order! I appreciate the reasonable line of questioning, but even armed with all the information, the pressure to get vaccinated was massive - every channel, every person "did their bit" to end the pandemic. You either did it through fear of death, did it to go on your holibobs, or the most insidious, for the good of society and the only means to end continued lockdowns.

Unless you had a supportive network sympathetic to your wishes, you would be fighting every instinct as we're hardwired to be part of a larger society.

The fact that "anti-vax" is still a thing and that "the great unvaxxed didn't help end the pandemic" is still a belief shows just how much faith was put into it all.

So it's a bit unfair to ask that question, as it's not in insolation. Did you feel coerced? Given what you now know, would you get vaccinated against Covid 19?

Agree with all of that statement - the pressure applied to people to have the vaccine was quite extreme under the circumstances - I’m glad I had covid before the introduction of vaccines as a result I didn’t feel I needed one but the peer pressure around it to “fit in” or get back to “normal” was frankly bonkers in my eyes

[alangla]

RemarkLima said:

Call to order! I appreciate the reasonable line of questioning, but even armed with all the information, the pressure to get vaccinated was massive - every channel, every person "did their bit" to end the pandemic. You either did it through fear of death, did it to go on your holibobs, or the most insidious, for the good of society and the only means to end continued lockdowns.

If you lived in Scotland, you might also have done it so you could go to the football, a concert or a nightclub, all things that younger people tend to do and that the current first minister has been quoted as saying that were targeted deliberately so as to increase vaccination rates amongst younger people.

Scotsman article said:

Asked why testing negative is not a requirement for nightclubs and other venues – as it is still possible to transmit the virus while double vaccinated – Mr Swinney said: “The policy intention here is to increase vaccination levels, that is what we’ve set out as the purpose of the exercise.

"If we increase the levels of vaccination amongst the individuals who are active in higher risk venues then we reduce the risk of transmission of the virus.

"That’s the logic behind this and the clinical argument.”

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/swinney-admits-some-scots-may-never-be-able-to-access-vaccine-passport-app-3406047

[Timothy Bucktu]

B'stard Child said:

Agree with all of that statement - the pressure applied to people to have the vaccine was quite extreme under the circumstances - I’m glad I had covid before the introduction of vaccines as a result I didn’t feel I needed one but the peer pressure around it to “fit in” or get back to “normal” was frankly bonkers in my eyes

It was a good test of character though.
If you said no, and had the common sense to hold back allowing fools to rush in first, and despite that almost overwhelming coercion...you're a good strong minded person AFAIC.

[andyA700]

Elysium said:

andyA700 said:

OddCat said:

Elysium said:

It does seem that harms from the vaccine were concentrated in people who were young or particularly active.

This is ironic as this group that gained the least benefit from the vaccines.

This isn’t supposition. It’s stated in the UKHSA reports and patient information leaflets.

I suspect this is why we also didn’t see a lot of adverse reactions in the first months of the vaccine roll out.

Question: if you'd known then what you know now, would you still have had the Covid jabs ?

The answer from me is a definite "no". I can no longer function how I would like to. I am getting absolutely no help from doctors. My experience is exactly the same as others who have been vaccine injured.

I am interested in your decision to have the vaccine.

Did you feel coerced into having it for the ‘greater good’, or did you think there would be direct benefit to you?

Were you also aware that there was a risk of side effects, as is the case with most vaccines?

Do you think the side effect risk is significantly higher than we were told?

I was in the at risk group of people and I could see the damage caused by Covid. I did have concerns about how safe the vaccdine was, but at the time of my first AZ jab in Feb 2021, the full risks were not out there. The day of the jab, I felt fine, but two weeks later started to get all my symptoms very quickly. Of course, in March 2021, the GP's were not seeing people face to face and it was virtually impossible to get telephone appointments. Itr didn't help that they were in total denial about vaccine injuries and deaths.

[andyA700]

Timothy Bucktu said:

B'stard Child said:

Agree with all of that statement - the pressure applied to people to have the vaccine was quite extreme under the circumstances - I’m glad I had covid before the introduction of vaccines as a result I didn’t feel I needed one but the peer pressure around it to “fit in” or get back to “normal” was frankly bonkers in my eyes

It was a good test of character though.
If you said no, and had the common sense to hold back allowing fools to rush in first, and despite that almost overwhelming coercion...you're a good strong minded person AFAIC.

Insulting or what?

[LeighW]

Timothy Bucktu said:

B'stard Child said:

Agree with all of that statement - the pressure applied to people to have the vaccine was quite extreme under the circumstances - I’m glad I had covid before the introduction of vaccines as a result I didn’t feel I needed one but the peer pressure around it to “fit in” or get back to “normal” was frankly bonkers in my eyes

It was a good test of character though.
If you said no, and had the common sense to hold back allowing fools to rush in first, and despite that almost overwhelming coercion...you're a good strong minded person AFAIC.

Agree. Personally I can just remember that things didn't sit right with me, and whenever I feel pushed into something, my GFYS instinct kicks in. Boy am I glad it did.

[OddCat]

Elysium said:

I didn’t want the booster at the time and I regret being bullied into having it.

By whom were you bullied and in what way ?

Bullied is a very strong word. As opposed to 'pursuaded' or 'guilt tripped' or 'cajoled' or 'emotionally blackmailed'....

[LeighW]

OddCat said:

Elysium said:

I didn’t want the booster at the time and I regret being bullied into having it.

By whom were you bullied and in what way ?

Bullied is a very strong word. As opposed to 'pursuaded' or 'guilt tripped' or 'cajoled' or 'emotionally blackmailed'....

Bullying, coercion, threats, call it what you will, it happened. Media and politicians were all at it, it was widespread and in our faces daily. You can be bullied without being physically punched in the face...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying

[PRTVR]

OddCat said:

Elysium said:

I didn’t want the booster at the time and I regret being bullied into having it.

By whom were you bullied and in what way ?

Bullied is a very strong word. As opposed to 'pursuaded' or 'guilt tripped' or 'cajoled' or 'emotionally blackmailed'....

Bullied is a good word, you want to go on holiday, only if you are vaccinated, want to keep your job , the same.

[272BHP]

PRTVR said:

Bullied is a good word, you want to go on holiday, only if you are vaccinated, want to keep your job , the same.

I agree, bullied is a perfectly suitable word for what happened.

[alangla]

I think possibly one of the other factors was the way that, as has become obvious from inquiry, the whole response became politicised and you had various politicians competing as to who could be the most “caring” etc. With the press running what were essentially comparative stats between devolved governments, you had this perverse incentive to ignore recommendations and effectively force vaccination on younger & younger groups, regardless of the benefits or risks to each group, hence why you’ve got the situation I described above with Sturgeon and Swinney basically banning the sorts of things younger folk enjoy unless they participate. Bullying is definitely the right word: “take this or you can’t go to a nightclub or gig like your friends”
Obviously there were also comparisons made internationally as well, it’s in some ways heartening that the UK government didn’t go as far as some other countries, regardless of the screeching from the press. This is particularly true of the way reopening and the dropping of the face mask regulations happened far more quickly in England than in many other countries.

[OddCat]

272BHP said:

PRTVR said:

Bullied is a good word, you want to go on holiday, only if you are vaccinated, want to keep your job , the same.

I agree, bullied is a perfectly suitable word for what happened.

I agree in the main although some people were 'bullied' by family members who were acting like the Covid Stazi.

I was just interested in Elysium's individual experience.

Also, not everyone reacts the same way to bullying. My (ex) boss who was ex army, and who therefore tends to follow without question orders from those in authority, said he'd pin me down himself if he got chance so I could be injected. I did point out to him that this might be more difficult than he thought with a biro buried six inches into his eye.

I get how the jab averse felt. I was one and I think we all roughly felt the same. I also prettymuch know how the jab zealots felt who were all excited and righteous about it. What interests me is how the hesitant made the decision to jump either way.

[r3g]

LeighW said:

Agree. Personally I can just remember that things didn't sit right with me, and whenever I feel pushed into something, my GFYS instinct kicks in. Boy am I glad it did.

Same for me leighw. I won't be forced into doing something I don't want to do and especially not when the orders are coming from authority figures who nearly always have an agenda that's not for my benefit, regardless of how they choose to dress it up. As we can now see, the jab con was a classic example.

[andyA700]

OddCat said:

Elysium said:

I didn’t want the booster at the time and I regret being bullied into having it.

By whom were you bullied and in what way ?

Bullied is a very strong word. As opposed to 'pursuaded' or 'guilt tripped' or 'cajoled' or 'emotionally blackmailed'....

If you are been told that you cannot go to certain places unless you have the vaccine, or that you will lose your job if you don't get vaccinated, then I would say that goes a lot further than cajoling or emotional blackmailing - it is in fact actual blackmailing and abuse.

[r3g]

andyA700 said:

If you are been told that you cannot go to certain places unless you have the vaccine, or that you will lose your job if you don't get vaccinated, then I would say that goes a lot further than cajoling or emotional blackmailing - it is in fact actual blackmailing and abuse.

Agreed. But people still had the choice whether to submit to their blackmail demands for an easy life, or whether to stand firm, say no and deal with whatever fall-out or inconveniences to their life that may come as a result of that.decision. Sadly, a lot of those people who took the easy path have now paid with their life or are having to live with varying scales of pain and disabilities from the vaxx damage for the rest of their lives.

Every single person complicit in pushing these questionable substances should be doing life in jail imo, and that includes most of the GPs and nurses.

[foreright]

r3g said:

andyA700 said:

If you are been told that you cannot go to certain places unless you have the vaccine, or that you will lose your job if you don't get vaccinated, then I would say that goes a lot further than cajoling or emotional blackmailing - it is in fact actual blackmailing and abuse.

Agreed. But people still had the choice whether to submit to their blackmail demands for an easy life, or whether to stand firm, say no and deal with whatever fall-out or inconveniences to their life that may come as a result of that.decision. Sadly, a lot of those people who took the easy path have now paid with their life or are having to live with varying scales of pain and disabilities from the vaxx damage for the rest of their lives.

Every single person complicit in pushing these questionable substances should be doing life in jail imo, and that includes most of the GPs and nurses.

I'm not sure that many people would have lost their job over their principles when it really came to it. I'm a "filthy unvaxed" (and so is my wife) but was under quite some pressure from my company to get the vaccine at one point - mostly because I was travelling a bit. I have a medical condition (overactive immune system related) and the hospital / consultants could not / would not commit as to how the vaccines would interact with the drugs I'm taking and ultimately stated that it was my choice. I was lucky that my work decided against forcing me to travel to places that would have required a vaccination as I was most likely not willing to lose my job over it when it really came to it.

I did almost lose my relationship with my parents over the whole thing though as they were very much vaccine zealots and we didn't speak for nearly a year due to disagreements over the whole thing. It's taken quite some time to get that vaguely back on track for the sake of our children seeing their grandparents but that relationship is still pretty broken.

I agree with that last point that there should be consequences for the people who clearly lied about the efficacy of these vaccines and the other measures taken but obviously we'll be waiting "some time" for that.

[LeighW]

foreright said:

I did almost lose my relationship with my parents over the whole thing though as they were very much vaccine zealots and we didn't speak for nearly a year due to disagreements over the whole thing. It's taken quite some time to get that vaguely back on track for the sake of our children seeing their grandparents but that relationship is still pretty broken.

I agree with that last point that there should be consequences for the people who clearly lied about the efficacy of these vaccines and the other measures taken but obviously we'll be waiting "some time" for that.

My wife and I have friends (in hindsight, I should use the term 'friends' loosely) who definitely distanced us once we refused to jab up, we were literally the only ones out of the group who avoided it. It bothered my wife more than me, but we're both very glad we stuck to our guns. I will add that some of those friends now have health issues that may or may not be coincidental, but they've definitely changed their tune with us of late, now being almost overly friendly.

[The Selfish Gene]

I lost about 6 'friends' over my stance -

My missus was pregnant during Covid so no fking way was she going to inject that poison. Obviously I never would have either anyway, but certainly wouldn't have if she didn't - one for all and all for one etc.

Now I have a very healthy unvaccinated missus, a very healthy 2.5 year old (completely V free) and I've never been healthier myself.

I have no idea how the 6 'friends' got on - and I don't give a fk.