CV19 - Cure Worse Than The Disease? (Vol 19)

[B'stard Child]

r3g said:

Elysium said:

No. I didn’t post links to the old volumes of the thread and my posts from those volumes most definitely do not say what you claim they say.

You say it’s a trivial exercise but you haven’t been able to provide a single post to justify what you are saying.

Links/screenshiots/whatever. I don't care what pedantry you want to use. You posted the old posts with dates which enabled them to be found.

You mean these

Vol 18 – Clicky

Vol 17 – Clicky

Vol 16 – Clicky

Vol 15 – Clicky

Vol 14 – Clicky

Vol 13 – Clicky

Vol 12 – Clicky

Vol 11 – Clicky

Vol 10 – Clicky

Vol 9 – Clicky

Vol 8 – Clicky

Vol 7 – Clicky

Vol 6 – Clicky

Vol 5 – Clicky

Vol 4 – Clicky

Vol 3 – Clicky

Vol 2 – Clicky

Original thread – Clicky


If you can't even get right who posted the links to previous volumes of this topic I'm not sure I'm going to bother to read the other crap you are throwing

Elysium has probably held one of the most consistent positions throughout the pandemic and post pandemic - I might not agree with his viewpoint in some areas but I don't agree with yours either and I don't expect people to agree with mine - opinions are like that

[Elysium]

Yahonza said:

I had a look at the leaflet for the first vaccine dose that I was given at the vaccine centre. There was nothing about VITT / Guillain Barre syndrome. I could have the timings wrong (unlikely) but VITT in particular didn't emerge as an SAE until the first dose of the adenovirus based covid vaccine had been given to millions of people.

Here's a link to a paper on VITT from NEJM 2021
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa210990...

Vaccination in many areas then moved from this vaccine to an mRNA one, probably based on safety concerns.

Edited by Yahonza on Thursday 13th June 23:13

I am sure you are right. I recall the VITT issue kicked off shortly before I had my first jab. I recall feeling somewhat uncomfortable about it, but at that point we already knew the risk was mostly for younger people.

[Elysium]

B'stard Child said:

r3g said:

Elysium said:

No. I didn’t post links to the old volumes of the thread and my posts from those volumes most definitely do not say what you claim they say.

You say it’s a trivial exercise but you haven’t been able to provide a single post to justify what you are saying.

Links/screenshiots/whatever. I don't care what pedantry you want to use. You posted the old posts with dates which enabled them to be found.

You mean these

Vol 18 – Clicky

Vol 17 – Clicky

Vol 16 – Clicky

Vol 15 – Clicky

Vol 14 – Clicky

Vol 13 – Clicky

Vol 12 – Clicky

Vol 11 – Clicky

Vol 10 – Clicky

Vol 9 – Clicky

Vol 8 – Clicky

Vol 7 – Clicky

Vol 6 – Clicky

Vol 5 – Clicky

Vol 4 – Clicky

Vol 3 – Clicky

Vol 2 – Clicky

Original thread – Clicky


If you can't even get right who posted the links to previous volumes of this topic I'm not sure I'm going to bother to read the other crap you are throwing

Elysium has probably held one of the most consistent positions throughout the pandemic and post pandemic - I might not agree with his viewpoint in some areas but I don't agree with yours either and I don't expect people to agree with mine - opinions are like that

It took me less than a minute to find this post:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[andyA700]

RemarkLima said:

andyA700 said:

On 31st December 2023, I went to the local casualty with extreme lower, left side abdominal pains. They kept me in for a few hours, taking full blood tests. On 18th January 2024, I had an endoscopy, which revealed a hiatus hernia and two, very small doudenal ulcers. I have never been tested (as far as I know) for helicobactor pylori. They did take a biopsy during the endoscopy, but neither the hospital or my GP can tell me the result of that. I am also unable to get the chest X-rays which were done on the same day.

That's very odd - usually you can get your results as it's your data and you're entitled to it.

The ulcers could point to H Pylori - there was a doctor who infected himself in order to prove that ulcers aren't a result of stress, an interesting story as well: https://gutscharity.org.uk/2019/10/the-doctor-who-... - but IANAD so this is not medical advice, just a possible route to investigate.

There's a lot of H Pylori tests you can take privately so it may be worth just arranging it yourself.

Like others, I'm sorry to hear of your issues and with others... I hope you can get it sorted!

Both my GP and the hospital seem to be very reluctant to give out information nowadays, so I may have to go down the PAL's route.

[andyA700]

RSTurboPaul said:

Yahonza said:

No-one has said they are '100% safe' - such a thing simply doesn't exist. As with everything it is a balance of risk. Some mistakes were made because there was no pandemic plan worth speaking of and some largely untested methods were used because everyone went into panic mode. Those countries that had a plan and that didn't react to everything had better outcomes.

Are you sure about the first part?

https://x.com/thismorning/status/13460384725665710...

That hasn't aged well has it.?, But that is typical of what was being said at the time.

[andyA700]

Unreal said:

Yahonza said:

RSTurboPaul said:

Yahonza said:

No-one has said they are '100% safe' - such a thing simply doesn't exist. As with everything it is a balance of risk. Some mistakes were made because there was no pandemic plan worth speaking of and some largely untested methods were used because everyone went into panic mode. Those countries that had a plan and that didn't react to everything had better outcomes.

Are you sure about the first part?

https://x.com/thismorning/status/13460384725665710...

I'm not talking about TV re authoritative sources of information.

President of the United States authoritative enough?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7chQfQ67SM

And the PM and Chris Whitty. I know a couple of health workers who lost their jobs for refusing the vaccine.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56448369

[andyA700]

Unreal said:

Elysium said:

Unreal said:

Much dancing on a head of a pin going here.

Only someone being deliberately dishonest would claim that the vaccines weren't presented as coming with only a slight and undefined risk wrapped up in a package that said they were a wonder solution that would protect the vaccinated and people they came into contact with.

I've just had a look at the leaflets in my packets of aspirin, co-codamol, ibuprofen and paracetamol. They seem a bit light (as in absent) when talking about side effects such as sudden death, conditions such as myocarditis which kill you a few weeks or months later, possible cancers or other serious consequences of taking them. You might get breathless, constipated, develop a rash or become sleepy. The emphasis is all on not exceeding the recommended dose and the action required should you have an adverse reaction is stop taking the tablets.

Remember the vaccines were introduced under emergency legislation. People can justify this however they like but what they can't reasonably do is deny that people were not given an informed choice. Why no leaflet equivalent to that in the box of aspirin?

When I had the AZ vaccine in June 2021 I was given a patient safety leaflet that described the known side effects. At that time those included blood clots as it had already been withdrawn for younger people.

However, I do agree with you that we abandoned the principles of informed consent as coercion, mandates, vaccine passports and other idiocy came to light.

Well, this is what you still find if you want to know about the safety and side effects. The first paragraph sets the tone.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-1...

There we go in black and white - headaches, achy feeling etc.

[andyA700]

Elysium said:

Unreal said:

Elysium said:

Unreal said:

Much dancing on a head of a pin going here.

Only someone being deliberately dishonest would claim that the vaccines weren't presented as coming with only a slight and undefined risk wrapped up in a package that said they were a wonder solution that would protect the vaccinated and people they came into contact with.

I've just had a look at the leaflets in my packets of aspirin, co-codamol, ibuprofen and paracetamol. They seem a bit light (as in absent) when talking about side effects such as sudden death, conditions such as myocarditis which kill you a few weeks or months later, possible cancers or other serious consequences of taking them. You might get breathless, constipated, develop a rash or become sleepy. The emphasis is all on not exceeding the recommended dose and the action required should you have an adverse reaction is stop taking the tablets.

Remember the vaccines were introduced under emergency legislation. People can justify this however they like but what they can't reasonably do is deny that people were not given an informed choice. Why no leaflet equivalent to that in the box of aspirin?

When I had the AZ vaccine in June 2021 I was given a patient safety leaflet that described the known side effects. At that time those included blood clots as it had already been withdrawn for younger people.

However, I do agree with you that we abandoned the principles of informed consent as coercion, mandates, vaccine passports and other idiocy came to light.

Well, this is what you still find if you want to know about the safety and side effects. The first paragraph sets the tone.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-1...

This is more like the safety leaflet I was given:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulat...

It contains a LOT of information about side effects. Including fatal ones.

Yes, it does and it also says that it was updated in November 2023, by which time hundreds of thousands of people had been injured by jabs taken in February and March 2021. A bit like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted and emigrated to another country.

[superlightr]

Elysium said:

This is more like the safety leaflet I was given:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulat...

It contains a LOT of information about side effects. Including fatal ones.

Hang on
Yes it does BUT it still also says:

"Some cases were life-threatening or had a fatal outcome. It is important to remember the benefits of vaccination to give protection against COVID-19 still outweigh any potential risks."

risk of death still outweigh any potential risk !

for who? there is no age stratification or pre-amble as wo who should have this. what if you have had covid before you know naturally? what if you are not elderly?

[Elysium]

superlightr said:

Elysium said:

This is more like the safety leaflet I was given:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulat...

It contains a LOT of information about side effects. Including fatal ones.

Hang on
Yes it does BUT it still also says:

"Some cases were life-threatening or had a fatal outcome. It is important to remember the benefits of vaccination to give protection against COVID-19 still outweigh any potential risks."

risk of death still outweigh any potential risk !

for who? there is no age stratification or pre-amble as wo who should have this. what if you have had covid before you know naturally? what if you are not elderly?

This is the point. The implication is that the benefits outweigh the risks for anyone who can be legally offered this vaccine.

The trouble is that the risk from COVID was low for healthy people of working age and negligible for those who had previously recovered from COVID.

And that is where the problem begins. We didn't just offer the vaccine to people at lower risk. We bullied and coerced them into taking it. We somehow convinced them that they had a duty to take a vaccine they didn't need to stop infection reaching someone else who was already vaccinated.

I remember people even justifying this madness by arguing that the vaccines would not stop you catching COVID, but they could somehow stop you from spreading it. The entire concept was nonsensical.

[119]

Why are you all consistently going round in circles?

Just seem like a huge amount of effort to try and prove something to random peoples on the internet.

[119]

[redacted]

[Slagathore]

Get them on the CT thread!

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-repor...

Imagine if someone said America ran an antivax campaign to drum up interest for American vaccines.

Can see part of the motivation from a political view, but what else? So people wouldn't trust the Sinovac vaccine and increase demand in Pfizer or Moderna?

[g3org3y]

Elysium said:

Just spotted this on Twitter, which is fairly mind blowing given that Robert Redfield was director of the CDC during COVID and stood on a platform with Fauci, Trump and Biden as a champion of the US response:

https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/1798421056941601...

In summary vaccine benefits are short lived, the spike protein is immunotoxic if you get it through infection OR vaccination and these vaccines should never have been mandated.

Quite a shift in position.

Thanks for the link. Finally got round to listening to the full interview.

Very very interesting and insightful. Very much worth a listen.

[johnboy1975]

I see LA county has recently (today?) voted to end vaccine mandates. (By 13-0)

The "dirty unvaxxed" can re apply for their jobs...if they so desire

Surprised this wasn't quietly phased out about 36 18 months ago tbh (additional leeway given because the Americans were batst re mandates. No excuses whatsoever for the past 18 months though)

[r3g]

Another tragic vaxx damage case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlZ7jgMk7Q0

I know this is going to sound cruel and heartless, but fk me, he KNEW that his first AZ was the cause of him getting completely fked up so wtf did he think was going to happen when he went for a 2nd shot? I mean, on the one hand I feel for the guy, it must be absolute torture living with those problems every single day of your life with no fix coming, even more so when the doctors and consultants have washed their hands of him and aren't interested in investigating it or helping him, but on the other hand, how dumb do you have to be to get a 2nd shot of the exact same stuff that's made your life a living hell for the past 6 months? I just don't understand it.

[Slagathore]

EmailAddress said:

You believe that guys resting heartrate was 30bpm do you?

2bpm off World Record status.

10bpm lower than 28x time medal Olympian Phelps.

I've seen that guy interviewed before. I'm pretty sure he said he used to do some sort of sport/activity.

So it's not so unbelievable that he could have had a resting heart rate around that 3 years ago before illness.

Mine used to be around 30-40 and I've seen it drop below 30 when sleeping.

No Olympic athlete, just trained a lot for my sport.

Go on one of the threads in the health forum when HR is discussed and you'll see many people with resting HR in the 30s.

[andyA700]

Slagathore said:

EmailAddress said:

You believe that guys resting heartrate was 30bpm do you?

2bpm off World Record status.

10bpm lower than 28x time medal Olympian Phelps.

I've seen that guy interviewed before. I'm pretty sure he said he used to do some sort of sport/activity.

So it's not so unbelievable that he could have had a resting heart rate around that 3 years ago before illness.

Mine used to be around 30-40 and I've seen it drop below 30 when sleeping.

No Olympic athlete, just trained a lot for my sport.

Go on one of the threads in the health forum when HR is discussed and you'll see many people with resting HR in the 30s.

The same here. I did a lot of cycle racing in the 70's/80's and my HR was between 35/40. I had a small op under anaesthetic in 1980 and when I came round the nurses were a bit concerned at my very low HR because it had fallen to the 30 mark.

[Elysium]

andyA700 said:

Slagathore said:

EmailAddress said:

You believe that guys resting heartrate was 30bpm do you?

2bpm off World Record status.

10bpm lower than 28x time medal Olympian Phelps.

I've seen that guy interviewed before. I'm pretty sure he said he used to do some sort of sport/activity.

So it's not so unbelievable that he could have had a resting heart rate around that 3 years ago before illness.

Mine used to be around 30-40 and I've seen it drop below 30 when sleeping.

No Olympic athlete, just trained a lot for my sport.

Go on one of the threads in the health forum when HR is discussed and you'll see many people with resting HR in the 30s.

The same here. I did a lot of cycle racing in the 70's/80's and my HR was between 35/40. I had a small op under anaesthetic in 1980 and when I came round the nurses were a bit concerned at my very low HR because it had fallen to the 30 mark.

It does seem that harms from the vaccine were concentrated in people who were young or particularly active.

This is ironic as this group that gained the least benefit from the vaccines.

This isn’t supposition. It’s stated in the UKHSA reports and patient information leaflets.

I suspect this is why we also didn’t see a lot of adverse reactions in the first months of the vaccine roll out.

For me the question we should be asking is why we aggressively pushed these vaccines onto millions of people who didn’t need them.

The only answer at the moment is that health experts ‘hoped’ they would reduce transmission.

[Boringvolvodriver]

Elysium said:

It does seem that harms from the vaccine were concentrated in people who were young or particularly active.

This is ironic as this group that gained the least benefit from the vaccines.

This isn’t supposition. It’s stated in the UKHSA reports and patient information leaflets.

I suspect this is why we also didn’t see a lot of adverse reactions in the first months of the vaccine roll out.

For me the question we should be asking is why we aggressively pushed these vaccines onto millions of people who didn’t need them.

The only answer at the moment is that health experts ‘hoped’ they would reduce transmission.

I would have thought that by the time they started to roll out the vaccine to the younger age ranges and start with the coercion with mandates etc that they would have known or at least had some indications that it did not stop transmission.

As for the reasons then in my mind then there are two other possibilities

1. Politicians worked out that they had completely messed up the response and the only way to save face was to use the vaccine as the saviour. I.e “we have saved you all with the vaccine rollout”

2.Money may have played a part of one wants to really cynical, especially in America