CV19 - Cure Worse Than The Disease? (Vol 19)
Discussion
No-one has said they are '100% safe' - such a thing simply doesn't exist. As with everything it is a balance of risk. Some mistakes were made because there was no pandemic plan worth speaking of and some largely untested methods were used because everyone went into panic mode. Those countries that had a plan and that didn't react to everything had better outcomes.
dandarez said:
Elysium said:
r3g said:
BigMon said:
No one had ever said the vaccines haven't caused harm. I'd be interested to see proof of anyone having said the vaccines haven't caused harm.
Presumably trolling or some sort of wind-up? There are literally pages and pages of posts in the earlier volumes where it is a full-blown chorus of "the vaccines are 100% safe and effective, they have been fully tested and approved for use by the governments and regulatory health bodies, there is absolutely nothing to worry about, to say they are causing harm makes you an Icke-supporting swivel-eyed conspiracy theorist, who should we trust - the chief medical officer for health, or some random guy on an internet forum".Another one trying to rewrite history.
Secondly, as I have said several times ‘safe’ in a medical sense does not mean ‘harmless’
This becomes immediately apparent if you read the warnings on any packet of over the counter painkillers.
So you're saying 'SAFE' (OED) has a different meaning in medicine? That's news to me.
SAFE: - 'Free from harm or risk' 'Secure from threat of danger, harm, or loss'.
Doctors sign up to the Hippocratic Oath but 'many doctors are said to betray it these days'...
not my words, words I read not online, but in the BMJ, Nov 2021.
Everyone knows that medicines carry a risk of side effects. That means that even those medicines that are declared as safe to be sold and marketed in the UK cannot ever be described as harmless.
r3g said:
BigMon said:
Excellent.
Feel free to post some quotes then where someone on here (or make it Elysium and I as that's who you're arguing with) has said the vaccines are 100% safe and effective.
Off you pop.
I've got better things to be doing with my time. How about you go read themself to refresh your memory on how embarrassing your posts were from that period. Endless "just trust the experts... do your bit for the greater good.... safe and effective... fully tested and approved" propaganda whilst mocking the so-called CTs who predicted all this stuff years ago.Feel free to post some quotes then where someone on here (or make it Elysium and I as that's who you're arguing with) has said the vaccines are 100% safe and effective.
Off you pop.
Edited by BigMon on Thursday 13th June 18:10
Yahonza said:
No-one has said they are '100% safe' - such a thing simply doesn't exist. As with everything it is a balance of risk. Some mistakes were made because there was no pandemic plan worth speaking of and some largely untested methods were used because everyone went into panic mode. Those countries that had a plan and that didn't react to everything had better outcomes.
Are you sure about the first part? 
https://x.com/thismorning/status/13460384725665710...
I am alright Jack said:
You've only been here for 26 months so you weren't here "back then".
Elysium posted the links to some of the old threads a few months back plus it's a trivial exercise to click on a username and read their posts from that period. Quite amazing to read all the posts saying how safe the vaccines are, having passed strict tests and clinical trials etc. 
RSTurboPaul said:
It says YOU are 100% effective.No claim is being made about the effectiveness of the vaccine.
Much dancing on a head of a pin going here.
Only someone being deliberately dishonest would claim that the vaccines weren't presented as coming with only a slight and undefined risk wrapped up in a package that said they were a wonder solution that would protect the vaccinated and people they came into contact with.
I've just had a look at the leaflets in my packets of aspirin, co-codamol, ibuprofen and paracetamol. They seem a bit light (as in absent) when talking about side effects such as sudden death, conditions such as myocarditis which kill you a few weeks or months later, possible cancers or other serious consequences of taking them. You might get breathless, constipated, develop a rash or become sleepy. The emphasis is all on not exceeding the recommended dose and the action required should you have an adverse reaction is stop taking the tablets.
Remember the vaccines were introduced under emergency legislation. People can justify this however they like but what they can't reasonably do is deny that people were not given an informed choice. Why no leaflet equivalent to that in the box of aspirin?
Only someone being deliberately dishonest would claim that the vaccines weren't presented as coming with only a slight and undefined risk wrapped up in a package that said they were a wonder solution that would protect the vaccinated and people they came into contact with.
I've just had a look at the leaflets in my packets of aspirin, co-codamol, ibuprofen and paracetamol. They seem a bit light (as in absent) when talking about side effects such as sudden death, conditions such as myocarditis which kill you a few weeks or months later, possible cancers or other serious consequences of taking them. You might get breathless, constipated, develop a rash or become sleepy. The emphasis is all on not exceeding the recommended dose and the action required should you have an adverse reaction is stop taking the tablets.
Remember the vaccines were introduced under emergency legislation. People can justify this however they like but what they can't reasonably do is deny that people were not given an informed choice. Why no leaflet equivalent to that in the box of aspirin?
RSTurboPaul said:
Yahonza said:
No-one has said they are '100% safe' - such a thing simply doesn't exist. As with everything it is a balance of risk. Some mistakes were made because there was no pandemic plan worth speaking of and some largely untested methods were used because everyone went into panic mode. Those countries that had a plan and that didn't react to everything had better outcomes.
Are you sure about the first part? https://x.com/thismorning/status/13460384725665710...
Yahonza said:
RSTurboPaul said:
Yahonza said:
No-one has said they are '100% safe' - such a thing simply doesn't exist. As with everything it is a balance of risk. Some mistakes were made because there was no pandemic plan worth speaking of and some largely untested methods were used because everyone went into panic mode. Those countries that had a plan and that didn't react to everything had better outcomes.
Are you sure about the first part? https://x.com/thismorning/status/13460384725665710...
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-re...
Pfizer said:
Vaccine was 100% effective in preventing severe disease as defined by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control
and Pfizer said:
Vaccine safety now evaluated in more than 44,000 participants 16 years of age and older, with more than 12,000 vaccinated participants having at least six months follow-up after their second dose
With AZ saying: https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-rel...AZ said:
The primary analysis of the Phase III clinical trials from the UK, Brazil and South Africa, published as a preprint in The Lancet confirmed COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca is safe and effective at preventing COVID-19, with no severe cases and no hospitalisations, more than 22 days after the first dose.
Unicef: https://www.unicef.org/montenegro/en/stories/astra...WHO: https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/deta...
Following with news like:
https://news.sky.com/story/pfizer-vaccine-safe-and...
and
https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2021/03/...
You can see how it would be easy to conflate the "100% effective" with "100% safe" - don't do it for yourself remember, do it for everyone else
To state that there was no such rhetoric throughout the media and social media is allowing the fog of time to blur the mania around it all. In 2021 / 2022 saying that "these jabs may have some side effects" would (and did) have you labelled as a swivel eyed CTist
r3g said:
I am alright Jack said:
You've only been here for 26 months so you weren't here "back then".
Elysium posted the links to some of the old threads a few months back plus it's a trivial exercise to click on a username and read their posts from that period. Quite amazing to read all the posts saying how safe the vaccines are, having passed strict tests and clinical trials etc. You say it’s a trivial exercise but you haven’t been able to provide a single post to justify what you are saying.
Yahonza said:
RSTurboPaul said:
Yahonza said:
No-one has said they are '100% safe' - such a thing simply doesn't exist. As with everything it is a balance of risk. Some mistakes were made because there was no pandemic plan worth speaking of and some largely untested methods were used because everyone went into panic mode. Those countries that had a plan and that didn't react to everything had better outcomes.
Are you sure about the first part? https://x.com/thismorning/status/13460384725665710...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7chQfQ67SM
Unreal said:
Much dancing on a head of a pin going here.
Only someone being deliberately dishonest would claim that the vaccines weren't presented as coming with only a slight and undefined risk wrapped up in a package that said they were a wonder solution that would protect the vaccinated and people they came into contact with.
I've just had a look at the leaflets in my packets of aspirin, co-codamol, ibuprofen and paracetamol. They seem a bit light (as in absent) when talking about side effects such as sudden death, conditions such as myocarditis which kill you a few weeks or months later, possible cancers or other serious consequences of taking them. You might get breathless, constipated, develop a rash or become sleepy. The emphasis is all on not exceeding the recommended dose and the action required should you have an adverse reaction is stop taking the tablets.
Remember the vaccines were introduced under emergency legislation. People can justify this however they like but what they can't reasonably do is deny that people were not given an informed choice. Why no leaflet equivalent to that in the box of aspirin?
When I had the AZ vaccine in June 2021 I was given a patient safety leaflet that described the known side effects. At that time those included blood clots as it had already been withdrawn for younger people. Only someone being deliberately dishonest would claim that the vaccines weren't presented as coming with only a slight and undefined risk wrapped up in a package that said they were a wonder solution that would protect the vaccinated and people they came into contact with.
I've just had a look at the leaflets in my packets of aspirin, co-codamol, ibuprofen and paracetamol. They seem a bit light (as in absent) when talking about side effects such as sudden death, conditions such as myocarditis which kill you a few weeks or months later, possible cancers or other serious consequences of taking them. You might get breathless, constipated, develop a rash or become sleepy. The emphasis is all on not exceeding the recommended dose and the action required should you have an adverse reaction is stop taking the tablets.
Remember the vaccines were introduced under emergency legislation. People can justify this however they like but what they can't reasonably do is deny that people were not given an informed choice. Why no leaflet equivalent to that in the box of aspirin?
However, I do agree with you that we abandoned the principles of informed consent as coercion, mandates, vaccine passports and other idiocy came to light.
Elysium said:
Unreal said:
Much dancing on a head of a pin going here.
Only someone being deliberately dishonest would claim that the vaccines weren't presented as coming with only a slight and undefined risk wrapped up in a package that said they were a wonder solution that would protect the vaccinated and people they came into contact with.
I've just had a look at the leaflets in my packets of aspirin, co-codamol, ibuprofen and paracetamol. They seem a bit light (as in absent) when talking about side effects such as sudden death, conditions such as myocarditis which kill you a few weeks or months later, possible cancers or other serious consequences of taking them. You might get breathless, constipated, develop a rash or become sleepy. The emphasis is all on not exceeding the recommended dose and the action required should you have an adverse reaction is stop taking the tablets.
Remember the vaccines were introduced under emergency legislation. People can justify this however they like but what they can't reasonably do is deny that people were not given an informed choice. Why no leaflet equivalent to that in the box of aspirin?
When I had the AZ vaccine in June 2021 I was given a patient safety leaflet that described the known side effects. At that time those included blood clots as it had already been withdrawn for younger people. Only someone being deliberately dishonest would claim that the vaccines weren't presented as coming with only a slight and undefined risk wrapped up in a package that said they were a wonder solution that would protect the vaccinated and people they came into contact with.
I've just had a look at the leaflets in my packets of aspirin, co-codamol, ibuprofen and paracetamol. They seem a bit light (as in absent) when talking about side effects such as sudden death, conditions such as myocarditis which kill you a few weeks or months later, possible cancers or other serious consequences of taking them. You might get breathless, constipated, develop a rash or become sleepy. The emphasis is all on not exceeding the recommended dose and the action required should you have an adverse reaction is stop taking the tablets.
Remember the vaccines were introduced under emergency legislation. People can justify this however they like but what they can't reasonably do is deny that people were not given an informed choice. Why no leaflet equivalent to that in the box of aspirin?
However, I do agree with you that we abandoned the principles of informed consent as coercion, mandates, vaccine passports and other idiocy came to light.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-1...
Unreal said:
Yahonza said:
RSTurboPaul said:
Yahonza said:
No-one has said they are '100% safe' - such a thing simply doesn't exist. As with everything it is a balance of risk. Some mistakes were made because there was no pandemic plan worth speaking of and some largely untested methods were used because everyone went into panic mode. Those countries that had a plan and that didn't react to everything had better outcomes.
Are you sure about the first part? https://x.com/thismorning/status/13460384725665710...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7chQfQ67SM
Yahonza said:
Unreal said:
Yahonza said:
RSTurboPaul said:
Yahonza said:
No-one has said they are '100% safe' - such a thing simply doesn't exist. As with everything it is a balance of risk. Some mistakes were made because there was no pandemic plan worth speaking of and some largely untested methods were used because everyone went into panic mode. Those countries that had a plan and that didn't react to everything had better outcomes.
Are you sure about the first part? https://x.com/thismorning/status/13460384725665710...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7chQfQ67SM
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-1...
Unreal said:
Elysium said:
Unreal said:
Much dancing on a head of a pin going here.
Only someone being deliberately dishonest would claim that the vaccines weren't presented as coming with only a slight and undefined risk wrapped up in a package that said they were a wonder solution that would protect the vaccinated and people they came into contact with.
I've just had a look at the leaflets in my packets of aspirin, co-codamol, ibuprofen and paracetamol. They seem a bit light (as in absent) when talking about side effects such as sudden death, conditions such as myocarditis which kill you a few weeks or months later, possible cancers or other serious consequences of taking them. You might get breathless, constipated, develop a rash or become sleepy. The emphasis is all on not exceeding the recommended dose and the action required should you have an adverse reaction is stop taking the tablets.
Remember the vaccines were introduced under emergency legislation. People can justify this however they like but what they can't reasonably do is deny that people were not given an informed choice. Why no leaflet equivalent to that in the box of aspirin?
When I had the AZ vaccine in June 2021 I was given a patient safety leaflet that described the known side effects. At that time those included blood clots as it had already been withdrawn for younger people. Only someone being deliberately dishonest would claim that the vaccines weren't presented as coming with only a slight and undefined risk wrapped up in a package that said they were a wonder solution that would protect the vaccinated and people they came into contact with.
I've just had a look at the leaflets in my packets of aspirin, co-codamol, ibuprofen and paracetamol. They seem a bit light (as in absent) when talking about side effects such as sudden death, conditions such as myocarditis which kill you a few weeks or months later, possible cancers or other serious consequences of taking them. You might get breathless, constipated, develop a rash or become sleepy. The emphasis is all on not exceeding the recommended dose and the action required should you have an adverse reaction is stop taking the tablets.
Remember the vaccines were introduced under emergency legislation. People can justify this however they like but what they can't reasonably do is deny that people were not given an informed choice. Why no leaflet equivalent to that in the box of aspirin?
However, I do agree with you that we abandoned the principles of informed consent as coercion, mandates, vaccine passports and other idiocy came to light.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-1...
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulat...
It contains a LOT of information about side effects. Including fatal ones.
Elysium said:
r3g said:
I am alright Jack said:
You've only been here for 26 months so you weren't here "back then".
Elysium posted the links to some of the old threads a few months back plus it's a trivial exercise to click on a username and read their posts from that period. Quite amazing to read all the posts saying how safe the vaccines are, having passed strict tests and clinical trials etc. You say it’s a trivial exercise but you haven’t been able to provide a single post to justify what you are saying.
r3g said:
Elysium said:
r3g said:
I am alright Jack said:
You've only been here for 26 months so you weren't here "back then".
Elysium posted the links to some of the old threads a few months back plus it's a trivial exercise to click on a username and read their posts from that period. Quite amazing to read all the posts saying how safe the vaccines are, having passed strict tests and clinical trials etc. You say it’s a trivial exercise but you haven’t been able to provide a single post to justify what you are saying.
Elysium said:
Unreal said:
Elysium said:
Unreal said:
Much dancing on a head of a pin going here.
Only someone being deliberately dishonest would claim that the vaccines weren't presented as coming with only a slight and undefined risk wrapped up in a package that said they were a wonder solution that would protect the vaccinated and people they came into contact with.
I've just had a look at the leaflets in my packets of aspirin, co-codamol, ibuprofen and paracetamol. They seem a bit light (as in absent) when talking about side effects such as sudden death, conditions such as myocarditis which kill you a few weeks or months later, possible cancers or other serious consequences of taking them. You might get breathless, constipated, develop a rash or become sleepy. The emphasis is all on not exceeding the recommended dose and the action required should you have an adverse reaction is stop taking the tablets.
Remember the vaccines were introduced under emergency legislation. People can justify this however they like but what they can't reasonably do is deny that people were not given an informed choice. Why no leaflet equivalent to that in the box of aspirin?
When I had the AZ vaccine in June 2021 I was given a patient safety leaflet that described the known side effects. At that time those included blood clots as it had already been withdrawn for younger people. Only someone being deliberately dishonest would claim that the vaccines weren't presented as coming with only a slight and undefined risk wrapped up in a package that said they were a wonder solution that would protect the vaccinated and people they came into contact with.
I've just had a look at the leaflets in my packets of aspirin, co-codamol, ibuprofen and paracetamol. They seem a bit light (as in absent) when talking about side effects such as sudden death, conditions such as myocarditis which kill you a few weeks or months later, possible cancers or other serious consequences of taking them. You might get breathless, constipated, develop a rash or become sleepy. The emphasis is all on not exceeding the recommended dose and the action required should you have an adverse reaction is stop taking the tablets.
Remember the vaccines were introduced under emergency legislation. People can justify this however they like but what they can't reasonably do is deny that people were not given an informed choice. Why no leaflet equivalent to that in the box of aspirin?
However, I do agree with you that we abandoned the principles of informed consent as coercion, mandates, vaccine passports and other idiocy came to light.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-1...
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulat...
It contains a LOT of information about side effects. Including fatal ones.
Yahonza said:
Elysium said:
Unreal said:
Elysium said:
Unreal said:
Much dancing on a head of a pin going here.
Only someone being deliberately dishonest would claim that the vaccines weren't presented as coming with only a slight and undefined risk wrapped up in a package that said they were a wonder solution that would protect the vaccinated and people they came into contact with.
I've just had a look at the leaflets in my packets of aspirin, co-codamol, ibuprofen and paracetamol. They seem a bit light (as in absent) when talking about side effects such as sudden death, conditions such as myocarditis which kill you a few weeks or months later, possible cancers or other serious consequences of taking them. You might get breathless, constipated, develop a rash or become sleepy. The emphasis is all on not exceeding the recommended dose and the action required should you have an adverse reaction is stop taking the tablets.
Remember the vaccines were introduced under emergency legislation. People can justify this however they like but what they can't reasonably do is deny that people were not given an informed choice. Why no leaflet equivalent to that in the box of aspirin?
When I had the AZ vaccine in June 2021 I was given a patient safety leaflet that described the known side effects. At that time those included blood clots as it had already been withdrawn for younger people. Only someone being deliberately dishonest would claim that the vaccines weren't presented as coming with only a slight and undefined risk wrapped up in a package that said they were a wonder solution that would protect the vaccinated and people they came into contact with.
I've just had a look at the leaflets in my packets of aspirin, co-codamol, ibuprofen and paracetamol. They seem a bit light (as in absent) when talking about side effects such as sudden death, conditions such as myocarditis which kill you a few weeks or months later, possible cancers or other serious consequences of taking them. You might get breathless, constipated, develop a rash or become sleepy. The emphasis is all on not exceeding the recommended dose and the action required should you have an adverse reaction is stop taking the tablets.
Remember the vaccines were introduced under emergency legislation. People can justify this however they like but what they can't reasonably do is deny that people were not given an informed choice. Why no leaflet equivalent to that in the box of aspirin?
However, I do agree with you that we abandoned the principles of informed consent as coercion, mandates, vaccine passports and other idiocy came to light.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-1...
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulat...
It contains a LOT of information about side effects. Including fatal ones.
I think the one shared by Unreal is just a dumbed down ‘easy to read’ version.
This seems to be the oldest version of the patient information leaflet, from June 21, which still includes quite of info on risks:
https://web.archive.org/web/20210702111024/https:/...
Edited by Elysium on Thursday 13th June 23:01
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff