Scottish Politics / Independence - Vol 12
Discussion
hiccy18 said:
If they put up the same child as last time for the Scottish election I won't for them.
Painful though it is, politics up here is a two-horse race,SNP
NotSNP - a tactical vote for the candidate with the highest odds of unseating the SNP, whoever it is.
It's the electoral equivalent of lancing a boil. Do you want the poison out, or not?
Evercross said:
On its second recount I am hearing...
It was Bloafud's seat but Charles Kennedy's before that. It would be justice for the great man if it returned to the LibDems (and our prediction/hope for a single figure SNP representation would be delivered!!)
ETA - Breaking new - count has been abandoned for now so we might have to wait a while.
Why abandoned? Giving folk a break?It was Bloafud's seat but Charles Kennedy's before that. It would be justice for the great man if it returned to the LibDems (and our prediction/hope for a single figure SNP representation would be delivered!!)
ETA - Breaking new - count has been abandoned for now so we might have to wait a while.
Edited by Evercross on Friday 5th July 10:42
Rick_1138 said:
Why abandoned? Giving folk a break?
Edited out an error BTW (I am tired!!)An argument over spoiled papers I have heard.
ETA - Now being officially reported that the count will recommence tomorrow. I am surmising that the candidates and their representatives have said that too many mistakes are being made and the EOs have said it is because the staff are knackered. I know how they feel.
Edited by Evercross on Friday 5th July 10:48
Evercross said:
Rick_1138 said:
Why abandoned? Giving folk a break?
Edited out an error BTW (I am tired!!)An argument over spoiled papers I have heard.
ETA - Now being officially reported that the count will recommence tomorrow. I am surmising that the candidates and their representatives have said that too many mistakes are being made and the EOs have said it is because the staff are knackered. I know how they feel.
Edited by Evercross on Friday 5th July 10:48
I am just interested as id like to see it go to the Lib dems as a final middle finger to the SNP from this evening.
shtu said:
Evercross said:
An argument over spoiled papers I have heard.
I'd expect that they're arguing that every paper that says "Freedum for Scoatlan'" "EndTheUnion" or similar is actually an SNP vote.
It is immensely satisfying to see the SNP being punished.
However, at the risk of sounding like a killjoy, Labour will have the same problem in Government at Westminster with regard to Scotland and making a tangible difference to those voters who want and expect to see an immediate improvement as the Conservatives had. The last Labour government gave away all of the levers they now need to achieve that sort of demonstrable change to the Scottish Parliament. As a consequence they can make little headway in terms of improving services in health, education, transport or policing that voters would see. That will result in two years of disappointment for Scottish voters if they do not realise and accept that the next Holyrood election is the one that will have the greatest impact upon their daily lives. Will those voters stay the course and continue to support Labour.... or simply revert to normal and punish them for their apparent inaction between now and then? It's not a great look for Labour to have to admit there is little they can do for 2 years due to a constitutional change they enacted 25 years ago.
It's the same problem that bedevils local government elections. Many voters simply do not know/cannot see/can't be bothered to understand which level of government has control over policy in the areas that affect their daily lives and so simply use their vote as a punishment tool without considering the ramifications to themselves.
If the SNP were to suddenly find a more charismatic leader with great communication skills in the next 12 months it would be difficult to not rule out a resurgence in support for them sadly. Five years ago pundits were saying Labour were out of power for at least the next two election cycles yet look at todays results. They have won with a huge parliamentary majority that is built on 1 million votes less than Corbyn achieved. They have been aided by the failure of both the Conservatives and SNP as opposed to any real appetite for them as a government with over 2/3rds of the electorate voting for other parties. It is hardly a resounding mandate yet it is enough to let them do what they want.
However, at the risk of sounding like a killjoy, Labour will have the same problem in Government at Westminster with regard to Scotland and making a tangible difference to those voters who want and expect to see an immediate improvement as the Conservatives had. The last Labour government gave away all of the levers they now need to achieve that sort of demonstrable change to the Scottish Parliament. As a consequence they can make little headway in terms of improving services in health, education, transport or policing that voters would see. That will result in two years of disappointment for Scottish voters if they do not realise and accept that the next Holyrood election is the one that will have the greatest impact upon their daily lives. Will those voters stay the course and continue to support Labour.... or simply revert to normal and punish them for their apparent inaction between now and then? It's not a great look for Labour to have to admit there is little they can do for 2 years due to a constitutional change they enacted 25 years ago.
It's the same problem that bedevils local government elections. Many voters simply do not know/cannot see/can't be bothered to understand which level of government has control over policy in the areas that affect their daily lives and so simply use their vote as a punishment tool without considering the ramifications to themselves.
If the SNP were to suddenly find a more charismatic leader with great communication skills in the next 12 months it would be difficult to not rule out a resurgence in support for them sadly. Five years ago pundits were saying Labour were out of power for at least the next two election cycles yet look at todays results. They have won with a huge parliamentary majority that is built on 1 million votes less than Corbyn achieved. They have been aided by the failure of both the Conservatives and SNP as opposed to any real appetite for them as a government with over 2/3rds of the electorate voting for other parties. It is hardly a resounding mandate yet it is enough to let them do what they want.
shtu said:
Painful though it is, politics up here is a two-horse race,
SNP
NotSNP - a tactical vote for the candidate with the highest odds of unseating the SNP, whoever it is.
It's the electoral equivalent of lancing a boil. Do you want the poison out, or not?
I appreciate the sentiment, even though the thought I might not understand that is vaguely patronising and missing the thrust of my previous post. I, like many others, have been voting on single issues repeatedly now, whether it be Indy or Brexit, and the country is in the worst state of my working life.SNP
NotSNP - a tactical vote for the candidate with the highest odds of unseating the SNP, whoever it is.
It's the electoral equivalent of lancing a boil. Do you want the poison out, or not?
People should be voting for who they believe will be their strongest representative, not the pig with their favourite colour of rosette. If, at a Scottish election, the SNP snatch my constituency from the Conservative incumbent it will be because of their core voting for the yellow rosette not me voting for the strongest candidate.
Our democracy continues to fail to function as we keep voting for donkeys. The challenge for Labour and others is to put up strong candidates for the next Scottish election.
Evercross said:
I'm not supposed to even discuss my involvement in a count, but as this is probably the first and last time I'll do it the highlight for me was when the contents of the spoiled ballots got read out (or described!!) to the candidates (which i was determined to get within earshot of).
Thank you for your service..! I'd love to have seen the look on the Candidates faces. Still, fair play to them. It takes a lot of courage to put yourself forward like that.
is-uk said:
It is immensely satisfying to see the SNP being punished.
However, at the risk of sounding like a killjoy, Labour will have the same problem in Government at Westminster with regard to Scotland and making a tangible difference to those voters who want and expect to see an immediate improvement as the Conservatives had. The last Labour government gave away all of the levers they now need to achieve that sort of demonstrable change to the Scottish Parliament. As a consequence they can make little headway in terms of improving services in health, education, transport or policing that voters would see. That will result in two years of disappointment for Scottish voters if they do not realise and accept that the next Holyrood election is the one that will have the greatest impact upon their daily lives. Will those voters stay the course and continue to support Labour.... or simply revert to normal and punish them for their apparent inaction between now and then? It's not a great look for Labour to have to admit there is little they can do for 2 years due to a constitutional change they enacted 25 years ago.
It's the same problem that bedevils local government elections. Many voters simply do not know/cannot see/can't be bothered to understand which level of government has control over policy in the areas that affect their daily lives and so simply use their vote as a punishment tool without considering the ramifications to themselves.
If the SNP were to suddenly find a more charismatic leader with great communication skills in the next 12 months it would be difficult to not rule out a resurgence in support for them sadly. Five years ago pundits were saying Labour were out of power for at least the next two election cycles yet look at todays results. They have won with a huge parliamentary majority that is built on 1 million votes less than Corbyn achieved. They have been aided by the failure of both the Conservatives and SNP as opposed to any real appetite for them as a government with over 2/3rds of the electorate voting for other parties. It is hardly a resounding mandate yet it is enough to let them do what they want.
Really well said.However, at the risk of sounding like a killjoy, Labour will have the same problem in Government at Westminster with regard to Scotland and making a tangible difference to those voters who want and expect to see an immediate improvement as the Conservatives had. The last Labour government gave away all of the levers they now need to achieve that sort of demonstrable change to the Scottish Parliament. As a consequence they can make little headway in terms of improving services in health, education, transport or policing that voters would see. That will result in two years of disappointment for Scottish voters if they do not realise and accept that the next Holyrood election is the one that will have the greatest impact upon their daily lives. Will those voters stay the course and continue to support Labour.... or simply revert to normal and punish them for their apparent inaction between now and then? It's not a great look for Labour to have to admit there is little they can do for 2 years due to a constitutional change they enacted 25 years ago.
It's the same problem that bedevils local government elections. Many voters simply do not know/cannot see/can't be bothered to understand which level of government has control over policy in the areas that affect their daily lives and so simply use their vote as a punishment tool without considering the ramifications to themselves.
If the SNP were to suddenly find a more charismatic leader with great communication skills in the next 12 months it would be difficult to not rule out a resurgence in support for them sadly. Five years ago pundits were saying Labour were out of power for at least the next two election cycles yet look at todays results. They have won with a huge parliamentary majority that is built on 1 million votes less than Corbyn achieved. They have been aided by the failure of both the Conservatives and SNP as opposed to any real appetite for them as a government with over 2/3rds of the electorate voting for other parties. It is hardly a resounding mandate yet it is enough to let them do what they want.
Klippie said:
SNP wiped out..!!!
There must be a lot of happy faces on here this morning...this day has been long coming but it was worth it, I can't wait to hear the excuses from the muppet squad.
Swinney will now be under mega pressure from Labour to call a Scottish election following that landslide.
I think it's quite revealing - and says a lot about our electoral system (for GEs, anyway) - that this scope of change was brought about with an increase in voter share for Labour of just 1.6% and a fall of just 1.3% for the SNP.There must be a lot of happy faces on here this morning...this day has been long coming but it was worth it, I can't wait to hear the excuses from the muppet squad.
Swinney will now be under mega pressure from Labour to call a Scottish election following that landslide.
It might not take much to reverse it. We can't be complacent.
is-uk said:
As a consequence they can make little headway in terms of improving services in health, education, transport or policing that voters would see. That will result in two years of disappointment for Scottish voters if they do not realise and accept that the next Holyrood election is the one that will have the greatest impact upon their daily lives. Will those voters stay the course and continue to support Labour.... or simply revert to normal and punish them for their apparent inaction between now and then?
I'd broadly agree with that, and the above part in particular. It's an unfortunate outcome of the devolved parliaments - local elections are generally ignored as a "protest vote", especially if the party in power at Westminster has a healthy majority.Perhaps Labour will get smart about their messaging on that topic, though I wouldn't bet on it.
dxg said:
I think it's quite revealing - and says a lot about our electoral system (for GEs, anyway) - that this scope of change was brought about with an increase in voter share for Labour of just 1.6% and a fall of just 1.3% for the SNP.
It might not take much to reverse it. We can't be complacent.
Absolutely.It might not take much to reverse it. We can't be complacent.
If Labour overturn the SNP at the next Holyrood elections don't you think they will just get on with the day job of running Scotland.
The polar opposite of what the SNP are currently doing which is deliberately running Scotland into the ground to blame Westminster, division has always been their plan so they can peddle this pathetic independence nonsense.
My constituency (Inverness, Skye & West Ross-shire) won't be available till tomorrow due to "statistical discrepancies".
Beeb news link
I expect midges have bitten into the abaci.
Beeb news link
I expect midges have bitten into the abaci.
Edited by jet_noise on Friday 5th July 13:02
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