Now Gordon wants your organs

[scorp]

So when the NHS evaluates whether its cost-effective to treat me in my old age, they will also consider the value of my organs. Hmmm.

[claypigeon60]

10 Pence Short said:

It isn't for the state to assume ownership of bits of me. It's for me to make the proactive choice.

+1

It's MY body, not the Government's. They spend every minute of every day dreaming up new ways of categorizing, tracking and taxing us.

I currently carry the card because I do basically believe in and support organ donation but if they bring in "presumed consent" I will opt out (even though I wouldn't trust the bureaucratic bunglers to even do that right)

[walm]

mark69sheer said:

ewenm said:

I don't have an objection to this. It's not like I need my organs after death.

I would be mortified to know that should my wife ever die before me her body inside her coffin looked like the inside of an abbatoirs offal scrap heap.

It's a total lack of respect for the dead.

It should always be an opt IN situation.

This is perhaps the most ridiculous comment so far.

You don't mind her rotting away?
How long will you insist on waiting before permitting decomposition to take its course?
What if she wanted to donate her organs?
Why not recommend she opts out?
Her body inside her skin will look like the aforementioned even when she is alive - who cares?
Respect for the dead is totally different to respect for a dead person's body.

[mark69sheer]

Yes but opt in opt out . We are presumably trusting another govt database here.... and we know how accurate they are..

[Mars]

superlightr said:

Another loss of basic human rights.


what next e-tags at birth?

Human rights for dead people?

[tinman0]

Bing o said:

tinman0 said:

Bing o said:

Practically State ownership of your organs now - when will we say enough is enough?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7729009.stm

Yeah, we've done this one on PH before, and although I agree with you, you are in for a bumpy thread Prepare to be murdered by the keyboard warriors.

I just want to make my own choices in life rather than have the state still interfere when I'm dead.

Trouble is that everyone sees the opt out as your out clause, rather than seeing that it should remain an opt in system, which is what the report today backed. As I said, I'm with you; the state should not stake a claim to your organs on your death. Plus the whole "brain dead" thing isn't exactly as clear cut as people want to make out either.

[Bing o]

tinman0 said:

Plus the whole "brain dead" thing isn't exactly as clear cut as people want to make out either.

Our PM Is walking proof of that....

[captainzep]

Gordon can have mine.

After I nailed the fecking Eastenders theme tune I felt my work was done.

Edited by captainzep on Monday 17th November 13:43

Edited by captainzep on Monday 17th November 13:51

[elster]

mark69sheer said:

Yes but opt in opt out . We are presumably trusting another govt database here.... and we know how accurate they are..

They are all pretty acurate.

Or do you mean the outside contractors that they are forced to used being terrible with databases.

I can't believe there are people on here who would rather see someone die, than give up their organs after death.

And the person or people who say if it is opt out they will, surely that is just cutting your nose off to spite your face. Especially if it was your own family that needed the organ.

[ewenm]

walm said:

mark69sheer said:

ewenm said:

I don't have an objection to this. It's not like I need my organs after death.

I would be mortified to know that should my wife ever die before me her body inside her coffin looked like the inside of an abbatoirs offal scrap heap.

It's a total lack of respect for the dead.

It should always be an opt IN situation.

This is perhaps the most ridiculous comment so far.

You don't mind her rotting away?
How long will you insist on waiting before permitting decomposition to take its course?
What if she wanted to donate her organs?
Why not recommend she opts out?
Her body inside her skin will look like the aforementioned even when she is alive - who cares?

Respect for the dead is totally different to respect for a dead person's body.

Exactly. Respect for the dead is not to do with the material remains but your memories of their life. For example, we've scattered my dad's and grandad's ashes. The location of the ashes is irrelevant to my respect for their lives.

[mondeoman]

Gun said:

Great idea, there are too many people waiting, and dying, on the transplant list.

Fine, let them die and give their organs to someone.

[claypigeon60]

elster said:

And the person or people who say if it is opt out they will, surely that is just cutting your nose off to spite your face. Especially if it was your own family that needed the organ.

If one objects on principle to the government assuming ownership of your body, what other option is available?

[elster]

mondeoman said:

Gun said:

Great idea, there are too many people waiting, and dying, on the transplant list.

Fine, let them die and give their organs to someone.

You wouldn't say that if it was you, your wife, your child laid there waiting for a transplant

[Herman Toothrot]

mark69sheer said:

I would be mortified to know that should my wife ever die before me her body inside her coffin looked like the inside of an abbatoirs offal scrap heap.

It's a total lack of respect for the dead.

Nonsense.

Corneas - eye sockets are padded and eyelids closed
Skin - only taken from back and back of legs so cannot be seen
Bone from hips and thighs replaced with plastic prosthetics and cuts in skin from removal stitched back up.
Internal organs, cuts in skin stitched back up.

Due to not wanting any bacterial contamination the body it throughly cleaned prior to collection so will be looking cleaner than if no collection took place.

Body goes with the undertakers as if not touched and in a state that they can still have an open coffin if the family wishes.

For info legally if you have given written consent to donate organs when alive i.e. signed a donor form, legally thats good enough, family don't have to be asked and advise from Human Tissue Authority says if family objects they should be told Legally the deceased wishes are given priority.

Anyway presumed consent wasn't taken up. Mainly I think because the isn't a system in place that would be capable of making all the required collections anyway, think how many people you'd need in around the country to make the collections. Also the Government has always had a skewed respect for minorities, so if a minority don't like the idea they they get their way and influence everyone else.

[Smart roadster]

Why all the fuss, the idea was rejected so all the "goverment want my body" people are getting there knickers in a twist over nothing.

Oh and Mondeoman = t**t.

[Mars]

mondeoman said:

Gun said:

Great idea, there are too many people waiting, and dying, on the transplant list.

Fine, let them die and give their organs to someone.

You obviously don't know anyone on that waiting list do you?

[Asterix]

I have an old Casio VL Tone he can have - I've mastered 'Blue Monday' and 'She's a Model' on it so I have no further use.

Edited by Asterix on Monday 17th November 13:58

[mark69sheer]

Herman Toothrot said:

mark69sheer said:

I would be mortified to know that should my wife ever die before me her body inside her coffin looked like the inside of an abbatoirs offal scrap heap.

It's a total lack of respect for the dead.

Nonsense.

Corneas - eye sockets are padded and eyelids closed
Skin - only taken from back and back of legs so cannot be seen
Bone from hips and thighs replaced with plastic prosthetics and cuts in skin from removal stitched back up.
Internal organs, cuts in skin stitched back up.

Due to not wanting any bacterial contamination the body it throughly cleaned prior to collection so will be looking cleaner than if no collection took place.

Body goes with the undertakers as if not touched and in a state that they can still have an open coffin if the family wishes.

For info legally if you have given written consent to donate organs when alive i.e. signed a donor form, legally thats good enough, family don't have to be asked and advise from Human Tissue Authority says if family objects they should be told Legally the deceased wishes are given priority.

Anyway presumed consent wasn't taken up. Mainly I think because the isn't a system in place that would be capable of making all the required collections anyway, think how many people you'd need in around the country to make the collections. Also the Government has always had a skewed respect for minorities, so if a minority don't like the idea they they get their way and influence everyone else.

The liverpool babies scandal didn't present babies as you describe some parents buried empty bleedin coffins.

Edited by mark69sheer on Monday 17th November 14:12

[elster]

mark69sheer said:

Herman Toothrot said:

mark69sheer said:

I would be mortified to know that should my wife ever die before me her body inside her coffin looked like the inside of an abbatoirs offal scrap heap.

It's a total lack of respect for the dead.

Nonsense.

Corneas - eye sockets are padded and eyelids closed
Skin - only taken from back and back of legs so cannot be seen
Bone from hips and thighs replaced with plastic prosthetics and cuts in skin from removal stitched back up.
Internal organs, cuts in skin stitched back up.

Due to not wanting any bacterial contamination the body it throughly cleaned prior to collection so will be looking cleaner than if no collection took place.

Body goes with the undertakers as if not touched and in a state that they can still have an open coffin if the family wishes.

For info legally if you have given written consent to donate organs when alive i.e. signed a donor form, legally thats good enough, family don't have to be asked and advise from Human Tissue Authority says if family objects they should be told Legally the deceased wishes are given priority.

Anyway presumed consent wasn't taken up. Mainly I think because the isn't a system in place that would be capable of making all the required collections anyway, think how many people you'd need in around the country to make the collections. Also the Government has always had a skewed respect for minorities, so if a minority don't like the idea they they get their way and influence everyone else.

The liverpool babies scandal didn't present babies as you describe some parents buried empty bleedin coffins.

Edited by mark69sheer on Monday 17th November 14:12

So when your wife has organ failure, you just want her to die? due to lack of organs available to transplant.

[dilbert]

Asterix said:

I have an old Casio VL Tone he can have - I've mastered 'Blue Monday' and 'She's a Model' on it so I have no further use.

Edited by Asterix on Monday 17th November 13:58

It's the churches I really worry about.


ETA They just said on the radio news that the plans have been abandoned.

Edited by dilbert on Monday 17th November 14:17