£1.4bn of Covid PPE Destroyed
Discussion
AB said:
I'm with these two! Someone wants to buy a s
tload of something you manufacture, what you going to do? Say no!? Of course not. Fair play to them. While everyone else was enjoying the sun on furlough, these guys were risking an awful lot in ramping up. They'll have had plenty of sleepless nights during this time. Paid off for them. Fair play.
IIRC the business in question (Full Support Healthcare) have never manufactured a single piece of PPE. They were simply a small business that had contacts and relationships with manufacturers in China. By acting as brokers/middle-men they netted ~£1bn profit on the vastly overpriced PPE.tload of something you manufacture, what you going to do? Say no!? Of course not. Fair play to them. While everyone else was enjoying the sun on furlough, these guys were risking an awful lot in ramping up. They'll have had plenty of sleepless nights during this time. Paid off for them. Fair play.Now our incompetent government at the time agreed this deal, but we shouldn't applaud it in any way. The taxpayer received incredibly bad value for money, irrespective of it now all being destroyed.
PlywoodPascal said:
Given that this was a pre-existing supplier of ppe and was already supplying the NHS, one could simply interpret this as their supply being unused because the government bought a load more than they needed, much of which was unsuitable, from dodgy feckers who somehow had their phone number.
Yes they were are a supplier to NHS Supply Chain,If NHS SC phone the company and say look we need to order x amounts of products can you help ? then yes they are entitled to accept or refuse. As one of a number of suppliers the conversation would have happend with other suppliers too.
We already had to write of a load of stock ordered a few years back pre covid for the flu pandemic which was stored in a warehouse in Liverpool.
As for the stock, I don’t know why it wasn’t used/needed ? Was it a case of someone else supplying the product from the VIP lane ?
Olivera said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Talk about being in the right place at the right time.
Sounds like a husband and wife team. Hope the rest of the employees got a nice bonus out of it.
They absolutely shafted the taxpayer with that exceedingly poor deal. IIRC the owners went overnight from run of the mill small business owners to buying up 8 figure luxury mansions worldwide.Sounds like a husband and wife team. Hope the rest of the employees got a nice bonus out of it.
Fair play to the company supplying the PPE, talk about being in the right place at the time. All nice and legal and above board.
Politicians really can't win can they, not enough PPE and they are granny killers, too much and they are wasting the taxpayers money.
People should remember the hysteria Labour and Lib Dims were wipping up all throughout this, they are equally as culpable in the whole sorry covid mess.
Politicians really can't win can they, not enough PPE and they are granny killers, too much and they are wasting the taxpayers money.
People should remember the hysteria Labour and Lib Dims were wipping up all throughout this, they are equally as culpable in the whole sorry covid mess.
Olivera said:
AB said:
I'm with these two! Someone wants to buy a stload of something you manufacture, what you going to do? Say no!? Of course not. Fair play to them. While everyone else was enjoying the sun on furlough, these guys were risking an awful lot in ramping up. They'll have had plenty of sleepless nights during this time. Paid off for them. Fair play.
IIRC the business in question (Full Support Healthcare) have never manufactured a single piece of PPE. They were simply a small business that had contacts and relationships with manufacturers in China. By acting as brokers/middle-men they netted ~£1bn profit on the vastly overpriced PPE.tload of something you manufacture, what you going to do? Say no!? Of course not. Fair play to them. While everyone else was enjoying the sun on furlough, these guys were risking an awful lot in ramping up. They'll have had plenty of sleepless nights during this time. Paid off for them. Fair play.Now our incompetent government at the time agreed this deal, but we shouldn't applaud it in any way. The taxpayer received incredibly bad value for money, irrespective of it now all being destroyed.
Not sure on the profit either ?
So is the report saying this didn’t go through the company (Ones on companies house) but through a company in Jersey ?
They are all equally culpable. Just like Brown saving the world with the banking crisis. It’s all borrowed money on a debt mountain that’s so large it’s hard to fathom anyway.
The next lot will just pile onto that mountain anyway as any
attempts to reduce it will be met with squeals of protests from anyone who might be taxed more or anyone whose benefits
might be reduced.
I’m sure Labour will examine every aspect of the Covid situation and prepare thoroughly so we aren’t affected similarly next time….
The next lot will just pile onto that mountain anyway as any
attempts to reduce it will be met with squeals of protests from anyone who might be taxed more or anyone whose benefits
might be reduced.
I’m sure Labour will examine every aspect of the Covid situation and prepare thoroughly so we aren’t affected similarly next time….
Downward said:
Olivera said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Talk about being in the right place at the right time.
Sounds like a husband and wife team. Hope the rest of the employees got a nice bonus out of it.
They absolutely shafted the taxpayer with that exceedingly poor deal. IIRC the owners went overnight from run of the mill small business owners to buying up 8 figure luxury mansions worldwide.Sounds like a husband and wife team. Hope the rest of the employees got a nice bonus out of it.
The NHS wants PPE and it uses a specialist company to source it, and it's perfectly normal for that company to make a profit regardless of NHS finances.
If it was cheaper for the NHS to source and manage the supply themselves then that's what they could/should be doing. It normally isn't so they farm it out.
Covid was an anomaly and this company delivered 100x the normal volumes at a time when the entire world was demanding PPE.
There isn't a cap on how much profit a private company should make, because they are private companies. Assuming their profit per item was the same, then they would have seen a 100x increase in profits for a short time. It would likely be more then that because their fixed costs didn't go up 100x.
They were just lucky to be in the right business at the right time.
ChocolateFrog said:
Makes you wonder what you'd do in their situation.
I don't think my morals would let me walk away with 100's of millions in profit off the back of a few phone calls.
But who knows.
When there's an uprising against millionaires, billionaires and trillionares i'll be near the front.
What makes you think it's off the back of a few phone calls. I don't think my morals would let me walk away with 100's of millions in profit off the back of a few phone calls.
But who knows.
When there's an uprising against millionaires, billionaires and trillionares i'll be near the front.
You must realise that there is a hell of a lot more to it than that, add to which you are dealing with China and in the midst of a pandemic.
LimaDelta said:
Mr Penguin said:
gotoPzero said:
Madness.
The government should have been producing this PPE not going to tiny companies to fulfil Bn £ POs.
No wonder they bought a £30M villa in barbados.
I would have done the same thing!!!
The issue is not the people running the company but that the government were just throwing money around in panic mode. Over ordering on the scales they did was insanity. The other issue is the cost to destroy all this stuff, £100m. Another company made millions off the back of getting rid of it all.
I do wonder about the UK these days.
How would the government start and ramp up production in a matter of weeks? The government should have been producing this PPE not going to tiny companies to fulfil Bn £ POs.
No wonder they bought a £30M villa in barbados.
I would have done the same thing!!!
The issue is not the people running the company but that the government were just throwing money around in panic mode. Over ordering on the scales they did was insanity. The other issue is the cost to destroy all this stuff, £100m. Another company made millions off the back of getting rid of it all.
I do wonder about the UK these days.
They went from 100 containers from China a year in 2019 to nearly 10,000 in 2020.
The government should have done more to avoid going through a 3rd party.
At the end of the day the tax payer is footing the bill for all this.
If we are paying hundreds of millions over the odds then thats wrong.
Worse is the whole lot was sold off for pennies on the pound and then dumped.
How can someone not be responsible for that.
Bluevanman said:
I don't understand why it has to be destroyed just because it's past a use by date
Sell/donate it to countries where there's a shortage who aren't bothered by a made up number on a tag
PPE is (at least now) relatively cheap, so it's a false economy for a 3rd world country to ship containers of unknown stuff halfway across the world. Sell/donate it to countries where there's a shortage who aren't bothered by a made up number on a tag
over_the_hill said:
Most medical stuff has a shelf life.
Although things like plastic aprons could be donated to schools for kids art/painting aprons
and other such recycling.
That's a very limited demand though, and *vast* quantities of the stuff, and the stuff would get binned rather than at least incinerating it means it's not landfilled.Although things like plastic aprons could be donated to schools for kids art/painting aprons
and other such recycling.
PlywoodPascal said:
Paul Dishman said:
The same number that some people think should produce drugs for the NHS instead of “Big Pharma”
there are good reasons that governments should develop/maybe even produce some drugs.the best argument is for anti bacterial medicines.
every time you use antibiotics, you increase evolutionary pressure on pathogens to evolve to become resistant.
that means that new antibiotic drugs are not going sell much, because medics will just keep them in reserve for when currently widespread drugs are fail.
the result is that there is no commercial incentive for pharmaceutical companies to make new antibiotics, because they won't sell in high numbers.
so... if you don't want people to die of antibiotic resistant infections, you need new antibiotics. but there is no point in a company making one because it costs billions and won't be sold or widely used. who should develop it, then?
there is a whole other argument that healthcare and health is a public good and so why accept at all that it's ethical to make a profit from it? But to be honest, I think we have it right in the UK. the nationalised healthcare system gives the NHS huge purchasing power so companies can make good profits from medical products without charging unethically by getting massive sales volumes. works well all round (more or less).
Edited by PlywoodPascal on Tuesday 25th June 10:42
can bet your bottom dollar that there's a lot of money going into drug research, with a slim likelihood of success. The taxpayer is better off paying for sucessful therapies and letting other people take the financial risk.
The problem over the past decade with the generic (unbranded) drug market in the UK is that the government has reduced profits made by manufacturers so much that the supply lines have become incredibly fraglle, which is why a lot of patients are having difficulties in getting medication. Brexit has exacerbated the problem, but isn't the main cause.
isaldiri said:
ATG said:
Except in the real world it often is. Mindless cynicism, like "all politicians are wkers", damages politics every bit as much as plonkers my local MP betting on the date of the election.
I'll call it less mindless cynicism but simply acceptance of reality. kers", damages politics every bit as much as plonkers my local MP betting on the date of the election.as far as this is concerned, well, you either keep large stocks and keep destroying them - ie waste, or you wait till you need them and join the scramble. While there is plenty of criticise the govt about as far as the covid related shambles is concerned, this just isn't really a big issue imo.
Olivera said:
AB said:
I'm with these two! Someone wants to buy a stload of something you manufacture, what you going to do? Say no!? Of course not. Fair play to them. While everyone else was enjoying the sun on furlough, these guys were risking an awful lot in ramping up. They'll have had plenty of sleepless nights during this time. Paid off for them. Fair play.
IIRC the business in question (Full Support Healthcare) have never manufactured a single piece of PPE. They were simply a small business that had contacts and relationships with manufacturers in China. By acting as brokers/middle-men they netted ~£1bn profit on the vastly overpriced PPE.tload of something you manufacture, what you going to do? Say no!? Of course not. Fair play to them. While everyone else was enjoying the sun on furlough, these guys were risking an awful lot in ramping up. They'll have had plenty of sleepless nights during this time. Paid off for them. Fair play.Now our incompetent government at the time agreed this deal, but we shouldn't applaud it in any way. The taxpayer received incredibly bad value for money, irrespective of it now all being destroyed.
At the time, it was a global scramble - and Chinese government pressure on internal supply for these things.
Having those contacts and relationships, and being able to organise and sort over a billion units of PPE, is simply incredible. Everyone was willing to pay whatever it took to secure it - these guys did for the UK.
Under a quid a piece landed and delivered. That's impressive.
Please name a single political party on the planet that wouldn't have signed off that contract at the time if they were in charge.
Sway said:
You're guessing on the profit.
At the time, it was a global scramble - and Chinese government pressure on internal supply for these things.
Having those contacts and relationships, and being able to organise and sort over a billion units of PPE, is simply incredible. Everyone was willing to pay whatever it took to secure it - these guys did for the UK.
Under a quid a piece landed and delivered. That's impressive.
Please name a single political party on the planet that wouldn't have signed off that contract at the time if they were in charge.
Indeed, I'm entirely guessing on the profit because thus far it's not been publicly disclosed. The small company owners blew the best part of £100m on a Caribbean Villa, several other mansions, an equestrian centre, and various other purchases mentioned in the tabloids. They also want to build 411 (!) stables for themselves: https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/ppe... I would love for more digging to be done on this deal.At the time, it was a global scramble - and Chinese government pressure on internal supply for these things.
Having those contacts and relationships, and being able to organise and sort over a billion units of PPE, is simply incredible. Everyone was willing to pay whatever it took to secure it - these guys did for the UK.
Under a quid a piece landed and delivered. That's impressive.
Please name a single political party on the planet that wouldn't have signed off that contract at the time if they were in charge.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff