Hajj Pilgrimage - 1,300 Die in Heat
Discussion
wc98 said:
My dad was involved in running the maintenance side of a Hajj operation for Chief Kabo's Kabo Air in Nigeria using 747s. Some of the stories he has are incredible. Getting shot at when their driver went straight through a check point due to the driver being out his nut chewing khat all day to stay awake for the long driving shifts. Armed escort to and from work, dead bodies floating in moat outside hotel and living on tough goat meat in some of the more interesting areas in Nigeria. Flying once on the national airline at the time between the north and south having to listen to a high pitched whistle the entire flight because the door seal on the aircraft was bust and constantly leaking pressure.
On the flight out the passengers only required one aircraft. Same passengers on the way back required an extra aircraft just for cargo, many used the pilgrimage as a shopping trip along with gallons of zam zam water. Pretty sure it wouldn't be possible to visit some of the places he worked there these days, Maiduguri being one. He did make a pile of money doing it.
The Haji out of Kano would normally have issues with cookers being used in flight. Katsina too is no fun nowOn the flight out the passengers only required one aircraft. Same passengers on the way back required an extra aircraft just for cargo, many used the pilgrimage as a shopping trip along with gallons of zam zam water. Pretty sure it wouldn't be possible to visit some of the places he worked there these days, Maiduguri being one. He did make a pile of money doing it.
Phud said:
The Haji out of Kano would normally have issues with cookers being used in flight. Katsina too is no fun now
always a man with a suitcase full of money to pay for the fuel on board as well. Think one captain got sacked for flying to Kano with not enough fuel onboard for the return flight. They had to drive up there to arrange refuelling that i think took two days due to how far it had to travel (think that was when they got shot at) despite my dad stressing to the pilots when flying north they must have enough fuel to do the return leg.I'm pretty sure that captain was mentioned on here years later as having fraudulent licence/docs and ended up in jail either here or across the pond. Some mad characters out there, especially the Russians flying all sorts of death traps they used to hire for odd jobs.
wc98 said:
always a man with a suitcase full of money to pay for the fuel on board as well. Think one captain got sacked for flying to Kano with not enough fuel onboard for the return flight. They had to drive up there to arrange refuelling that i think took two days due to how far it had to travel (think that was when they got shot at) despite my dad stressing to the pilots when flying north they must have enough fuel to do the return leg.I'm pretty sure that captain was mentioned on here years later as having fraudulent licence/docs and ended up in jail either here or across the pond. Some mad characters out there, especially the Russians flying all sorts of death traps they used to hire for odd jobs.
And thats before talking about the national carrier!!!!
Phud said:
Oh yes, however didn't matter what mode of transport, licences were really optional extras.
And thats before talking about the national carrier!!!!
After the flight with the leaky door my dad and his colleagues told the Chief they wouldn't be flying on the national or any of the local carriers. There were a load of brand new aircraft that hadn't been paid for at the far end of the ramp that had been cannibalised for parts despite never having flown after their delivery journey. And thats before talking about the national carrier!!!!
ChocolateFrog said:
If only there was something in nature that had a central column with a large canopy on the top that provides natural shade and oxygen.
They even do variations that can survive in hot/dry climates.
Seen many tree lined walkways in the Middle East offering as much shade have you?They even do variations that can survive in hot/dry climates.
768 said:
ChocolateFrog said:
If only there was something in nature that had a central column with a large canopy on the top that provides natural shade and oxygen.
They even do variations that can survive in hot/dry climates.
Seen many tree lined walkways in the Middle East offering as much shade have you?They even do variations that can survive in hot/dry climates.
CraigyMc said:
1.8 million people including a significant proportion of people at the end of their lives (health/age etc) and 1300 of them die puts a slightly different slant on the story.
It's a pilgrimage too. I've met people who've walked there through Yemen from Oman, probably 1500 miles. I'd be on my last legs by the end of that.ChocolateFrog said:
768 said:
ChocolateFrog said:
If only there was something in nature that had a central column with a large canopy on the top that provides natural shade and oxygen.
They even do variations that can survive in hot/dry climates.
Seen many tree lined walkways in the Middle East offering as much shade have you?They even do variations that can survive in hot/dry climates.
Glassman said:
Tom8 said:
I do find religion weird, that people get hooked on a sky fairy and then claim theirs is the best.
This pilgrimage business is exactly that - business. I went through Lourdes a couple of years ago so we stopped to see what it was like. Being France I thought it would be quite understated and serene, but was shocked. Think Blackpool with churches rather than a tower.
What I found worse was the people there hoping for some sort of miracle to cure them, some genuinely ill looking people hoping this magic will happen, probably just next to the gift shop that sells the fancy crosses. Huge exploitation. It was really grim.
Religion is the opium of the people...This pilgrimage business is exactly that - business. I went through Lourdes a couple of years ago so we stopped to see what it was like. Being France I thought it would be quite understated and serene, but was shocked. Think Blackpool with churches rather than a tower.
What I found worse was the people there hoping for some sort of miracle to cure them, some genuinely ill looking people hoping this magic will happen, probably just next to the gift shop that sells the fancy crosses. Huge exploitation. It was really grim.
jdw100 said:
Glassman said:
Tom8 said:
I do find religion weird, that people get hooked on a sky fairy and then claim theirs is the best.
This pilgrimage business is exactly that - business. I went through Lourdes a couple of years ago so we stopped to see what it was like. Being France I thought it would be quite understated and serene, but was shocked. Think Blackpool with churches rather than a tower.
What I found worse was the people there hoping for some sort of miracle to cure them, some genuinely ill looking people hoping this magic will happen, probably just next to the gift shop that sells the fancy crosses. Huge exploitation. It was really grim.
Religion is the opium of the people...This pilgrimage business is exactly that - business. I went through Lourdes a couple of years ago so we stopped to see what it was like. Being France I thought it would be quite understated and serene, but was shocked. Think Blackpool with churches rather than a tower.
What I found worse was the people there hoping for some sort of miracle to cure them, some genuinely ill looking people hoping this magic will happen, probably just next to the gift shop that sells the fancy crosses. Huge exploitation. It was really grim.
Yertis said:
Yes. Having visited Jeddah during (but not for) Hajj I can’t imagine what else they could do to prevent this kind of thing. The crowds are huge. There was talk of building a new rail link from Jeddah up to Mecca (Makkah) but I’ve not heard if that went anywhere.
Far fetched idea, they could admit the whole thing is a money making scheme and stop holding it.I was doing a job in Saudi that involved flying in and out weekly on Saudi Air via Jeddah.
One flight back from to London, a lot of the passengers were carrying those big plastic jerry cans full of 'holy' water, I presume.
They were struggling as they loaded them into the overhead lockers
I thought that if this aircraft hits turbulence or has a rough landing, we would all drown
One flight back from to London, a lot of the passengers were carrying those big plastic jerry cans full of 'holy' water, I presume.
They were struggling as they loaded them into the overhead lockers
I thought that if this aircraft hits turbulence or has a rough landing, we would all drown
croyde said:
I was doing a job in Saudi that involved flying in and out weekly on Saudi Air via Jeddah.
One flight back from to London, a lot of the passengers were carrying those big plastic jerry cans full of 'holy' water, I presume.
They were struggling as they loaded them into the overhead lockers
I thought that if this aircraft hits turbulence or has a rough landing, we would all drown
Zamzam water. It's from the well right beside the Kaaba and is indeed holy water.One flight back from to London, a lot of the passengers were carrying those big plastic jerry cans full of 'holy' water, I presume.
They were struggling as they loaded them into the overhead lockers
I thought that if this aircraft hits turbulence or has a rough landing, we would all drown
There was a bit of a problem a while ago when it was found that people were selling it online in the UK, it was outside the spec for UK water safety.
Blackpuddin said:
MesoForm said:
Blackpuddin said:
With all the money the Saudis have you'd think they might provide appropriate amounts of water and shelter.
I think there is an air-conditioned walkway to get to it, etc. but to limit numbers there are only a certain amount of "pilgrimage visas" allowed and they cost a few thousand each. Pilgrims from poorer areas can't afford it and go without a visa, it's these people who are suffering.I'm not excusing the organisers because if they're expecting more people they have a duty to handle it, but charging for tickets seems normal.
jdw100 said:
Glassman said:
Tom8 said:
I do find religion weird, that people get hooked on a sky fairy and then claim theirs is the best.
This pilgrimage business is exactly that - business. I went through Lourdes a couple of years ago so we stopped to see what it was like. Being France I thought it would be quite understated and serene, but was shocked. Think Blackpool with churches rather than a tower.
What I found worse was the people there hoping for some sort of miracle to cure them, some genuinely ill looking people hoping this magic will happen, probably just next to the gift shop that sells the fancy crosses. Huge exploitation. It was really grim.
Religion is the opium of the people...This pilgrimage business is exactly that - business. I went through Lourdes a couple of years ago so we stopped to see what it was like. Being France I thought it would be quite understated and serene, but was shocked. Think Blackpool with churches rather than a tower.
What I found worse was the people there hoping for some sort of miracle to cure them, some genuinely ill looking people hoping this magic will happen, probably just next to the gift shop that sells the fancy crosses. Huge exploitation. It was really grim.
Glassman said:
jdw100 said:
Glassman said:
Tom8 said:
I do find religion weird, that people get hooked on a sky fairy and then claim theirs is the best.
This pilgrimage business is exactly that - business. I went through Lourdes a couple of years ago so we stopped to see what it was like. Being France I thought it would be quite understated and serene, but was shocked. Think Blackpool with churches rather than a tower.
What I found worse was the people there hoping for some sort of miracle to cure them, some genuinely ill looking people hoping this magic will happen, probably just next to the gift shop that sells the fancy crosses. Huge exploitation. It was really grim.
Religion is the opium of the people...This pilgrimage business is exactly that - business. I went through Lourdes a couple of years ago so we stopped to see what it was like. Being France I thought it would be quite understated and serene, but was shocked. Think Blackpool with churches rather than a tower.
What I found worse was the people there hoping for some sort of miracle to cure them, some genuinely ill looking people hoping this magic will happen, probably just next to the gift shop that sells the fancy crosses. Huge exploitation. It was really grim.
wc98 said:
Glassman said:
jdw100 said:
Glassman said:
Tom8 said:
I do find religion weird, that people get hooked on a sky fairy and then claim theirs is the best.
This pilgrimage business is exactly that - business. I went through Lourdes a couple of years ago so we stopped to see what it was like. Being France I thought it would be quite understated and serene, but was shocked. Think Blackpool with churches rather than a tower.
What I found worse was the people there hoping for some sort of miracle to cure them, some genuinely ill looking people hoping this magic will happen, probably just next to the gift shop that sells the fancy crosses. Huge exploitation. It was really grim.
Religion is the opium of the people...This pilgrimage business is exactly that - business. I went through Lourdes a couple of years ago so we stopped to see what it was like. Being France I thought it would be quite understated and serene, but was shocked. Think Blackpool with churches rather than a tower.
What I found worse was the people there hoping for some sort of miracle to cure them, some genuinely ill looking people hoping this magic will happen, probably just next to the gift shop that sells the fancy crosses. Huge exploitation. It was really grim.
durbster said:
Blackpuddin said:
MesoForm said:
Blackpuddin said:
With all the money the Saudis have you'd think they might provide appropriate amounts of water and shelter.
I think there is an air-conditioned walkway to get to it, etc. but to limit numbers there are only a certain amount of "pilgrimage visas" allowed and they cost a few thousand each. Pilgrims from poorer areas can't afford it and go without a visa, it's these people who are suffering.I'm not excusing the organisers because if they're expecting more people they have a duty to handle it, but charging for tickets seems normal.
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