Macron calls a national election
Discussion
86 said:
Europe moving to the right big time. People fed up with immigration meanwhile we are moving left and Starmer will open the floodgates
Oh yes, the Conservatives have done such an excellent job of shielding us from uncontrolled immigration and it's negative effects, haven't they?
They've pissed down your leg whilst telling you it's raining.
You've been had.
Conned.
Scammed.
Mugged right off.
105.4 said:
The biggest surprise to me in all of this is that Marie le Pen is ’far-right’
The terms far left and far right are bandied about without care imo. I mean my line in the sand for far left is someone like Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge. Far right? The Nazi party.Is that too simplistic? Is that wrong?
I don't see anyone on any side being as extreme as those two examples. So is it right to be sticking "far" in front of these things when just "left" and "right" wing will do.
Otispunkmeyer said:
The terms far left and far right are bandied about without care imo. I mean my line in the sand for far left is someone like Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge. Far right? The Nazi party.
Is that too simplistic? Is that wrong?
I don't see anyone on any side being as extreme as those two examples. So is it right to be sticking "far" in front of these things when just "left" and "right" wing will do.
It is contextual but she is pretty far right compared to the last few decades of Western European politics.Is that too simplistic? Is that wrong?
I don't see anyone on any side being as extreme as those two examples. So is it right to be sticking "far" in front of these things when just "left" and "right" wing will do.
hidetheelephants said:
leef44 said:
isaldiri said:
ambuletz said:
As someone who doesn't really follow politics can someone explain why his actions are a big deal? (in like 2 sentences).
There is quite a lot of concern that the 'wrong' people might get voted in and Macron should never have given 'the people' the chance to make that wrong choice....It's been obvious for years that the French people wanted a change from their historic parties that Macron was never going to deliver, despite his election slogans. Le Pen has been the only candidate offering it, but the establishment has successfully used the "far right" portrayal to block her.
Does Macron want to win, or does he want her to win? There seems to be a lot of sudden "change" going on. Why now?
Does Macron want to win, or does he want her to win? There seems to be a lot of sudden "change" going on. Why now?
Otispunkmeyer said:
The terms far left and far right are bandied about without care imo. I mean my line in the sand for far left is someone like Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge. Far right? The Nazi party.
Is that too simplistic? Is that wrong?
I don't see anyone on any side being as extreme as those two examples. So is it right to be sticking "far" in front of these things when just "left" and "right" wing will do.
No it is not simplistic and wrong. Is that too simplistic? Is that wrong?
I don't see anyone on any side being as extreme as those two examples. So is it right to be sticking "far" in front of these things when just "left" and "right" wing will do.
In reality many of the policies of the "far-right" European parties would have been those of the mainstream centre-right a generation ago, plus often some more centrist and left wing economic policies as they often appeal more to working class voters than those parties did.
The problem with modern politics is that globalism is defined as the norm and any alternative is automatically called extreme.
JagLover said:
No it is not simplistic and wrong.
In reality many of the policies of the "far-right" European parties would have been those of the mainstream centre-right a generation ago, plus often some more centrist and left wing economic policies as they often appeal more to working class voters than those parties did.
The problem with modern politics is that globalism is defined as the norm and any alternative is automatically called extreme.
Do you allow the same for the parties that get called far-left/communist/Marxist etc. that espouse policies that were mainstream on the left a generation ago, and often still are in some parts of Europe?In reality many of the policies of the "far-right" European parties would have been those of the mainstream centre-right a generation ago, plus often some more centrist and left wing economic policies as they often appeal more to working class voters than those parties did.
The problem with modern politics is that globalism is defined as the norm and any alternative is automatically called extreme.
Personally I don't think judging the political spectrum of today by versions of the political spectrum of the past is really valid. Saying 'in the not-so-distant past it was mainstream to think women should be homemakers and mothers, gay people were deviants and cultural chauvinism was fine and good' doesn't make those positions not-extreme in 2024. And it's often not so much/just the policies as the way they'd be implemented and enforced.
It's a relation of the equally empty (imo) view that views/policies cannot be extreme if they are popular, as if it's level of support on a bell curve that defines whether a policy is radical or extreme rather than its substance.
Ridgemont said:
Kermit power said:
105.4 said:
The biggest surprise to me in all of this is that Marie le Pen is ’far-right’
Are you aware of her history?She's a senior member of France's far right royalty who took an undisputedly Far Right party and dressed it up in nationalist/populist clothes to make it look respectable enough to get people to vote for it.
The RN's 22 point plan for France is absolutely textbook. Promise the people what they want to hear, keep just the right amount of blaming Islam, make lots of completely unfunded spending promises, drop Frexit from the list because it's not popular, but then issue a manifesto which is undeliverable whilst remaining members of the EU. It plays very well to the psyche of many post-colonial French voters.
If they win the election, be under no illusions as to what the people of France will be electing.
Their manifesto doesn't look a million miles further to the extreme than Reform UK's, but look at how they've arrived there.
As far as I'm aware, there is no suggestion that Farage has ever been a member of a Far Right party. I could easily believe that his personal private views are probably somewhat more centrist, but he's nothing if not a showman, and projecting populism is proving a good way of winning support.
Marine Le Pen, on the other hand? She has pulled the public image of her party (and herself) dramatically back from the extreme thanks to the populist agenda, but I really don't believe that her private views have changed one bit. I may be wrong, but to me she feels like the stereotypical fine, upstanding billionaire businessman revealed part way into the film to be the newest Bond villain intent on world domination.
NerveAgent said:
86 said:
Europe moving to the right big time. People fed up with immigration meanwhile we are moving left and Starmer will open the floodgates
Brexiters getting salty at a European increase in the right while the UK moves left is pretty funny. Kermit power said:
Are you aware of her history?
She's a senior member of France's far right royalty who took an undisputedly Far Right party and dressed it up in nationalist/populist clothes to make it look respectable enough to get people to vote for it.
The RN's 22 point plan for France is absolutely textbook. Promise the people what they want to hear, keep just the right amount of blaming Islam, make lots of completely unfunded spending promises, drop Frexit from the list because it's not popular, but then issue a manifesto which is undeliverable whilst remaining members of the EU. It plays very well to the psyche of many post-colonial French voters.
If they win the election, be under no illusions as to what the people of France will be electing.
No no no remember parties like Labour and the Conservatives are Socialists.She's a senior member of France's far right royalty who took an undisputedly Far Right party and dressed it up in nationalist/populist clothes to make it look respectable enough to get people to vote for it.
The RN's 22 point plan for France is absolutely textbook. Promise the people what they want to hear, keep just the right amount of blaming Islam, make lots of completely unfunded spending promises, drop Frexit from the list because it's not popular, but then issue a manifesto which is undeliverable whilst remaining members of the EU. It plays very well to the psyche of many post-colonial French voters.
If they win the election, be under no illusions as to what the people of France will be electing.
But the National Front with a different name definitely isn't far right.
2xChevrons said:
Do you allow the same for the parties that get called far-left/communist/Marxist etc. that espouse policies that were mainstream on the left a generation ago, and often still are in some parts of Europe?
Personally I don't think judging the political spectrum of today by versions of the political spectrum of the past is really valid. Saying 'in the not-so-distant past it was mainstream to think women should be homemakers and mothers, gay people were deviants and cultural chauvinism was fine and good' doesn't make those positions not-extreme in 2024. And it's often not so much/just the policies as the way they'd be implemented and enforced.
It's a relation of the equally empty (imo) view that views/policies cannot be extreme if they are popular, as if it's level of support on a bell curve that defines whether a policy is radical or extreme rather than its substance.
It would depend on the party. If you look for example at practical implications of the more extreme end of the eco-left spectrum it would end with a society and economy not very dissimilar to communism. Whereas more traditional social democrats may be called extremist for wanting a more equitable system but are continuing the traditions of the old centre-left parties.Personally I don't think judging the political spectrum of today by versions of the political spectrum of the past is really valid. Saying 'in the not-so-distant past it was mainstream to think women should be homemakers and mothers, gay people were deviants and cultural chauvinism was fine and good' doesn't make those positions not-extreme in 2024. And it's often not so much/just the policies as the way they'd be implemented and enforced.
It's a relation of the equally empty (imo) view that views/policies cannot be extreme if they are popular, as if it's level of support on a bell curve that defines whether a policy is radical or extreme rather than its substance.
In regard to the rest of the post I disagree. The focus on the well being of the citizen rather than the non-citizen is an old debate as is, and linked, the economic and social system under which we operate and whether it prioritises the ordinary citizen or not. The rest is changeable, but sexual orientation and gender issues often seem more like distractions from the real issues than what should define all.
Edited by JagLover on Monday 10th June 08:37
Kermit power said:
The question is whether the leopard has changed its spots or just put a coat on?
Their manifesto doesn't look a million miles further to the extreme than Reform UK's, but look at how they've arrived there.
As far as I'm aware, there is no suggestion that Farage has ever been a member of a Far Right party. I could easily believe that his personal private views are probably somewhat more centrist, but he's nothing if not a showman, and projecting populism is proving a good way of winning support.
Marine Le Pen, on the other hand? She has pulled the public image of her party (and herself) dramatically back from the extreme thanks to the populist agenda, but I really don't believe that her private views have changed one bit........
You mean a bit like Starmer then?Their manifesto doesn't look a million miles further to the extreme than Reform UK's, but look at how they've arrived there.
As far as I'm aware, there is no suggestion that Farage has ever been a member of a Far Right party. I could easily believe that his personal private views are probably somewhat more centrist, but he's nothing if not a showman, and projecting populism is proving a good way of winning support.
Marine Le Pen, on the other hand? She has pulled the public image of her party (and herself) dramatically back from the extreme thanks to the populist agenda, but I really don't believe that her private views have changed one bit........
the-photographer said:
Some national exceptions to the trend, Denmark moving left,
Denmark isn't really an exception as the ruling Social Democrats have taken a tough line on illegal migration and effectively left no political space for a "populist" right wing party. https://www.politico.eu/article/denmark-migration-...
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff