Junior Doctors' Pay Claim Poll

[FiF]

Dixy said:

May I thank Fif and 86 for contributing to the NO side of the debate.

Not exactly the NO side of the debate. Just to repeat, voted for the 10-19% poll option. Somewhere in that range imo, plus change in terms if at high end or even just above.

JDs need to be wary of agreeing a no strike policy though.

[CoolHands]

86 said:

If they wish to go to Australia great it’s a lovely place just get on with it. I’m at the stage where if I had to go into hospital I’d be thinking how committed is that junior doctor to treating me they seem more interested in themselves in walking out, working to rule and demanding ridiculous pay awards. They act like a bunch of university students determined to bring down the government

Your numerous smear tactics are laughable

[anonymous-user]

86 said:

If they wish to go to Australia great it’s a lovely place just get on with it. I’m at the stage where if I had to go into hospital I’d be thinking how committed is that junior doctor to treating me they seem more interested in themselves in walking out, working to rule and demanding ridiculous pay awards. They act like a bunch of university students determined to bring down the government

You may be at the stage where you'll be seen quicker if you fly to Australia too.

[pghstochaj]

jason61c said:

Given the fact that nurses now do most of the heavy lifting. It’s quite shocking that doctors are after 35%, when it’s likely nurses will end up with less than 10%.

It’s total greed.

Surely doctors and nurses should get the same % increase?

Stop reading the headlines and do some number crunching.

Since 2008, nursing pay has increased for a band 6 nurse by 47%.

Band 5, similar at 44%.

This is about the same as the general population’s increase in pay over the same period.

A 6 year in consultant has gone up just 25%, 20% (and roughly £20k) behind nurses and the general population.

And you query why doctors might be asking for more than nurses?

[loafer123]

There are two very interesting articles on this in the Telegraph today.

One looks at why the Australian system has better working conditions and the other is a JD who explains all the training and exam costs they have to bear.

Both offer interesting prospects for reform of the NHS generally (core free healthcare, encouraging private health alongside to increase spend) and for the JD strike (modest pay rise, cover JD training, exams and fees like other professions do).

[anonymous-user]

CoolHands said:

86 said:

If they wish to go to Australia great it’s a lovely place just get on with it. I’m at the stage where if I had to go into hospital I’d be thinking how committed is that junior doctor to treating me they seem more interested in themselves in walking out, working to rule and demanding ridiculous pay awards. They act like a bunch of university students determined to bring down the government

Your numerous smear tactics are laughable

No smear just fact. As I say it’s university level negotiations no grown ups in the room. Made worse by that Doctor clearing off on holiday. I guess he gets his pay whilst those on strike don’t

I see they have even gagged anyone on a picket line from talking to the press only the union can talk. Typical tactics of the left close down dialogue.

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 15th April 12:40

[djc206]

86 said:

No smear just fact. As I say it’s university level negotiations no gown ups in the room. Made worse by that Doctor clearing off on holiday. I guess he gets his pay whilst those on strike don’t

I see they have even gagged anyone on a picket line from talking to the press only the union can talk. Typical tactics of the left close down dialogue.

That’s not closing down dialogue it’s preventing personal positions from being misrepresented as those of the union. It’s pretty normal. My employer doesn’t allow me to speak to the press if I’ve been identified as working for them, it would give the false impression that I speak for them which I clearly don’t but it could be misrepresented by the press as an official line. I wouldn’t call it gagging it’s sensible PR.

[FiF]

djc206 said:

86 said:

No smear just fact. As I say it’s university level negotiations no gown ups in the room. Made worse by that Doctor clearing off on holiday. I guess he gets his pay whilst those on strike don’t

I see they have even gagged anyone on a picket line from talking to the press only the union can talk. Typical tactics of the left close down dialogue.

That’s not closing down dialogue it’s preventing personal positions from being misrepresented as those of the union. It’s pretty normal. My employer doesn’t allow me to speak to the press if I’ve been identified as working for them, it would give the false impression that I speak for them which I clearly don’t but it could be misrepresented by the press as an official line. I wouldn’t call it gagging it’s sensible PR.

Agreed, it's completely normal practice for a business. Our instructions were that if approached by press, even specialist technical publications, simply refer them to the relevant PR office and say nothing else. Whatever you do say will be misconstrued and attempted to be used against you.

Much like PH really, it's tedious.

[valiant]

FiF said:

djc206 said:

86 said:

No smear just fact. As I say it’s university level negotiations no gown ups in the room. Made worse by that Doctor clearing off on holiday. I guess he gets his pay whilst those on strike don’t

I see they have even gagged anyone on a picket line from talking to the press only the union can talk. Typical tactics of the left close down dialogue.

That’s not closing down dialogue it’s preventing personal positions from being misrepresented as those of the union. It’s pretty normal. My employer doesn’t allow me to speak to the press if I’ve been identified as working for them, it would give the false impression that I speak for them which I clearly don’t but it could be misrepresented by the press as an official line. I wouldn’t call it gagging it’s sensible PR.

Agreed, it's completely normal practice for a business. Our instructions were that if approached by press, even specialist technical publications, simply refer them to the relevant PR office and say nothing else. Whatever you do say will be misconstrued and attempted to be used against you.

Much like PH really, it's tedious.

Same here, not allowed to talk to press and they have to referred to our press office. All completely normal.

[anonymous-user]

valiant said:

FiF said:

djc206 said:

86 said:

No smear just fact. As I say it’s university level negotiations no gown ups in the room. Made worse by that Doctor clearing off on holiday. I guess he gets his pay whilst those on strike don’t

I see they have even gagged anyone on a picket line from talking to the press only the union can talk. Typical tactics of the left close down dialogue.

That’s not closing down dialogue it’s preventing personal positions from being misrepresented as those of the union. It’s pretty normal. My employer doesn’t allow me to speak to the press if I’ve been identified as working for them, it would give the false impression that I speak for them which I clearly don’t but it could be misrepresented by the press as an official line. I wouldn’t call it gagging it’s sensible PR.

Agreed, it's completely normal practice for a business. Our instructions were that if approached by press, even specialist technical publications, simply refer them to the relevant PR office and say nothing else. Whatever you do say will be misconstrued and attempted to be used against you.

Much like PH really, it's tedious.

Same here, not allowed to talk to press and they have to referred to our press office. All completely normal.

Not the same at all. If you stand on a picket line shouting at people you open yourselves up to be questioned and challenged. The messages the Union want to get out is food banks and how hard up doctors are. Pull the other one most people I talk to think Doctors are having a laugh and as someone said to me in the meantime people are dying. That seems to be how many so called caring junior doctors act these days ?

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 15th April 13:12

[jason61c]

pghstochaj said:

jason61c said:

Given the fact that nurses now do most of the heavy lifting. It’s quite shocking that doctors are after 35%, when it’s likely nurses will end up with less than 10%.

It’s total greed.

Surely doctors and nurses should get the same % increase?

Stop reading the headlines and do some number crunching.

Since 2008, nursing pay has increased for a band 6 nurse by 47%.

Band 5, similar at 44%.

This is about the same as the general population’s increase in pay over the same period.

A 6 year in consultant has gone up just 25%, 20% (and roughly £20k) behind nurses and the general population.

And you query why doctors might be asking for more than nurses?

Quoting a single band is just daily mail tactics. Also nurses are massively underpaid and undervalued

[MiniMan64]

Some posters seem to have a train of thought that medical professionals (and probably many other public sector workers) should just be doing it for the love of the job and don’t really need to earn money.

[greygoose]

86 said:

Not the same at all. If you stand on a picket line shouting at people you open yourselves up to be questioned and challenged.

And they have the right not to answer questions and refer to the union leaders.

We get it that you are a Conservative and hate unions/Labour/Starmer/every Labour politician, why not have a break and go for a walk for half an hour and get some fresh air?

[NerveAgent]

greygoose said:

86 said:

Not the same at all. If you stand on a picket line shouting at people you open yourselves up to be questioned and challenged.

And they have the right not to answer questions and refer to the union leaders.

We get it that you are a Conservative and hate unions/Labour/Starmer/every Labour politician, why not have a break and go for a walk for half an hour and get some fresh air?

Outside is too leafy, I mean lefty, grrr

[valiant]

86 said:

Not the same at all. If you stand on a picket line shouting at people you open yourselves up to be questioned and challenged. The messages the Union want to get out is food banks and how hard up doctors are. Pull the other one most people I talk to think Doctors are having a laugh and as someone said to me in the meantime people are dying. That seems to be how many so called caring junior doctors act these days ?

Edited by 86 on Saturday 15th April 13:12

It is the same. We’re asked by our unions not to engage with the press and to refer them to a chosen representative as the union wants to reinforce a single message and are used to doing press interviews and aware of the pitfalls that a random striker wouldn’t be.

It’s simple common sense to do so.

[anonymous-user]

greygoose said:

86 said:

Not the same at all. If you stand on a picket line shouting at people you open yourselves up to be questioned and challenged.

And they have the right not to answer questions and refer to the union leaders.

We get it that you are a Conservative and hate unions/Labour/Starmer/every Labour politician, why not have a break and go for a walk for half an hour and get some fresh air?

No thanks good to put the other side of the debate but I see you are well trained in the tactics of the left try to close down anyone who disagrees. There will be millions who disagree with the tactics of junior doctors most just keep their head down

[anonymous-user]

valiant said:

86 said:

Not the same at all. If you stand on a picket line shouting at people you open yourselves up to be questioned and challenged. The messages the Union want to get out is food banks and how hard up doctors are. Pull the other one most people I talk to think Doctors are having a laugh and as someone said to me in the meantime people are dying. That seems to be how many so called caring junior doctors act these days ?

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 15th April 13:12

It is the same. We’re asked by our unions not to engage with the press and to refer them to a chosen representative as the union wants to reinforce a single message and are used to doing press interviews and aware of the pitfalls that a random striker wouldn’t be.

It’s simple common sense to do so.

Don’t they do that in China as well don’t let people speak for themselves

[Dixy]

86 said:

Well we have no doctors at our surgery who work full time for the NHS. They all do 1/2 days and the rest is private. The one employer thing is nonsense work in the private sector find another trade if it’s that bad

I find this totally impossible to believe, you say surgery so you are talking GP not JD. Please at least substantiate how you know this to be fact.

[Evanivitch]

Timothy Bucktu said:

I chose the 1 to 4% option, which is what I got working in the private sector...or the real world, if you will.

You're being fobbed off

https://www.incomesdataresearch.co.uk/resources/ne...

[anonymous-user]

Dixy said:

86 said:

Well we have no doctors at our surgery who work full time for the NHS. They all do 1/2 days and the rest is private. The one employer thing is nonsense work in the private sector find another trade if it’s that bad

I find this totally impossible to believe, you say surgery so you are talking GP not JD. Please at least substantiate how you know this to be fact.

I’m friends with the main partner !! A couple of them just do online and work from home.

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 15th April 14:49