Private schools, times a changing?

[NDA]

lardybiker said:

THIS

Fell for those with hard finance decisions to make however, also feel i have to point out.....

Could sell a playing field.
Work harder to afford.
Stop getting starbucks.
Miss out on one of your holidays.
etc.

All so that Wayne and Waynetta can have free breakfasts? Seems fair.

[DonkeyApple]

S600BSB said:

Cheaper to just pay the VAT than move house. It’s what most of us will do.

Indeed but the 'moving home' element is what comes down the line when people with young children come to making the key decision as to how to educate their children. Those are the people who will be incentivised more now to bid up properties in key catchment areas, more so than has already been occurring for the last decade or more.

Especially with WFH and tt capabilities making it even easier to favour locating the home to benefit the children's schooling over the office commute. Especially when blokes realise that renting a flat in the centre of town that gets used just mid week with a couple of old uni mates is a hell of a lot more fun than spending hours commuting and costs barely two terms of fees in London.

[CoolHands]

Oh no, rich people fighting over expensive 3 bed semis in highly desirable catchment areas! However will the proletariat survive!

[u-boat]

CoolHands said:

Oh no, rich people fighting over expensive 3 bed semis in highly desirable catchment areas! However will the proletariat survive!

The point is though that

A) These won’t be rich people affected it will mainly be people willing to sacrifice things for their children’s education and

B) the consequences of this change will likely not be the extra revenue for the government suggested and there will likely be negative consequences eg schools closing and more pressure on the state sector plus disruption to children’s education.

All because this is a policy based on ideology (and an anti aspirational negative ideology ) rather than economics.

God knows why labour are still perusing this, it’s not a popular policy amongst floating voters. Labour are miles ahead in the polls, why not be a party of aspiration and positive change not the party that will take away things and stifle choices and aspiration.

I’d likely vote labour in this GE but this policy alone puts me off. It just feels unfair and driven by spite and old school negative class war thinking, rather than a genuine attempt to improve education or the economic situation.

[borcy]

u-boat said:

God knows why labour are still perusing this, it’s not a popular policy amongst floating voters. Labour are miles ahead in the polls, why not be a party of aspiration and positive change not the party that will take away things and stifle choices and aspiration.

I’d likely vote labour in this GE but this policy alone puts me off. It just feels unfair and driven by spite and old school negative class war thinking, rather than a genuine attempt to improve education or the economic situation.

They think it's a good thing, bit of levelling up. It's effectively a freebie, keeps the core supporters happy with a bit of redistribution.
It's not going to affect Labour's vote in any way, 95% of voters won't have heard of this policy or care as it'll only affect areas. It's a provisional issue to them that has very little downside.

[DonkeyApple]

CoolHands said:

Oh no, rich people fighting over expensive 3 bed semis in highly desirable catchment areas! However will the proletariat survive!

The key is that these won't be 'rich' people but just normal, middle England but with sufficient household income to ensure their children are in a good catchment area, which very obviously is exactly how the world works. I'd wager that when you bought your family home you didn't opt for a small ex council house in the most drug and violent infested street but instead made use of being one of the richest people in the U.K. and your considerable purchasing power to ensure you bought a home that best fit what you wanted and your expectations.

Always be careful when mocking those you consider to be 'rich' because the remaining 90% of society that is behind you considers you to also be 'rich' and among those to be put on trains and sent to special places.

You may have a legacy of sports bike ownership over the decade so may even believe that like many sports bike owners that you are a small, rat like bloke with a big fat wife, a predilection to falling victim to conspiracy theories due to a poor education and that you are the salt of the earth and one of the common people. But the reality is that you are a homeowning, fancy car driving, pension owning, educated traitor. You are one of them, one of the oppressors, the elite who hold their jackboot on the real workers of the land.

If you own things and don't exist on a sink estate then you are one of the rich. It's really that simple. And you will be taxed.

[M1AGM]

vaud said:

Yorkshire. I'm not sharing my postcode but I pay council tax to Bradford, which will probably break some other PH myths.

My underlying point is that parents that can broadly afford private today will be in a very comfortable position to pay for high end top up tutoring if they are forced into state system.

Bradford Grammar?

[Louis Balfour]

jshell said:

Louis Balfour said:

jshell said:

okgo said:

vaud said:

Yorkshire. I'm not sharing my postcode but I pay council tax to Bradford, which will probably break some other PH myths.

My underlying point is that parents that can broadly afford private today will be in a very comfortable position to pay for high end top up tutoring if they are forced into state system.

They're not going to accept whatever the local 'needs improvement' type situation that is near their house. It will not be some straight swap, if it were me I'd just move house to where there was a grammar or renowned state school. Many will do similar, and it will put pressure on those already sought after schools and because these people can probably pay to play and buy property in catchment it will cause an even tighter funnel of problems.

We'll might just take advantage of the huge tax-breaks across the EU for UK retirees and look to International Schooling.

What are the best ones? I looked at one for Puglia in Italy a while ago. I think it was something like 7% of global earnings per annum. But limited to a certain number of years.

My ex-colleagues are looking into Portugal, whilst we were looking at the Puglia deal. It's not as good now as it was, but I need to spend some time going through the fine details. It's a great deal for those prepared to head for some sun and vino!

It's a long time since I looked at it. But IIRC my concerns were that I'd grow bored of the rural charms and then be taxed to death when the deal ended.

[DonkeyApple]

Louis Balfour said:

It's a long time since I looked at it. But IIRC my concerns were that I'd grow bored of the rural charms and then be taxed to death when the deal ended.

A friend of mine was talking about leaving his two eldest where they are but bailing out to Barcelona with the two youngest, so I don't think you have to condemn yourself to village life to do the move.

[Patch1875]

Just made the last monthly payment as that’s my daughter finishing later this month.

She’s been there since P6(Scotland) so 8 years and I think the costs have doubled since she started.

Has it been a good decision? Yes think it has she done fairly well from someone not really academic and loved all the others things it had to offer.

Don’t think we could afford to do it nowadays if the VAT kicks in. Will be interesting to see what happens here in Edinburgh with 25% privately educated.

[S600BSB]

DonkeyApple said:

S600BSB said:

Cheaper to just pay the VAT than move house. It’s what most of us will do.

Indeed but the 'moving home' element is what comes down the line when people with young children come to making the key decision as to how to educate their children. Those are the people who will be incentivised more now to bid up properties in key catchment areas, more so than has already been occurring for the last decade or more.

Especially with WFH and tt capabilities making it even easier to favour locating the home to benefit the children's schooling over the office commute. Especially when blokes realise that renting a flat in the centre of town that gets used just mid week with a couple of old uni mates is a hell of a lot more fun than spending hours commuting and costs barely two terms of fees in London.

Like the sound of that!

[DonkeyApple]

S600BSB said:

Like the sound of that!

It's the future.

Move family to a pleasant part of England and then rent a nice Z2 flat with mates that you use Tue to Thur and is cleaned with fresh bedding by an Airbnb service in your absence. 2 evenings midweek with old mates, talking bks in a Samual Smith pub is a pure luxury.

[Louis Balfour]

DonkeyApple said:

Louis Balfour said:

It's a long time since I looked at it. But IIRC my concerns were that I'd grow bored of the rural charms and then be taxed to death when the deal ended.

A friend of mine was talking about leaving his two eldest where they are but bailing out to Barcelona with the two youngest, so I don't think you have to condemn yourself to village life to do the move.

I was referring to a specific Italian deal in Puglia. However common sense suggests that any deal, anywhere, is unlikely to be peanuts tax forever. Or at least unless “anywhere” is seriously compromised somehow.

[CLK-GTR]

Louis Balfour said:

I was referring to a specific Italian deal in Puglia. However common sense suggests that any deal, anywhere, is unlikely to be peanuts tax forever. Or at least unless “anywhere” is seriously compromised somehow.

Which Puglia is. Nice place to visit, but you wouldnt want to live there.

[ooid]

Louis Balfour said:

However common sense suggests that any deal, anywhere, is unlikely to be peanuts tax forever. Or at least unless “anywhere” is seriously compromised somehow.

Have you checked Gibraltar?

[macron]

Patch1875 said:

Will be interesting to see what happens here in Edinburgh with 25% privately educated.

Glasgow is hilarious,

More income tax, more stamp duty,

All private schools here have increased fees well above inflation and are all expanding (or seeking to).

Natch the new houses close to Jordanhill aren't in its hard bounded catchment, which when the UFLers find out simply means more applications to the private schools.

[macron]

Oh, and the stats suggest there are more private schools and more pupils everywhere. People will just pay a little more here and there.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024...

[DonkeyApple]

Louis Balfour said:

I was referring to a specific Italian deal in Puglia. However common sense suggests that any deal, anywhere, is unlikely to be peanuts tax forever. Or at least unless “anywhere” is seriously compromised somehow.

Ah. Personally, I wouldn't go near Puglia. As lovely as it is there is a reason they are trying to attract affluent immigration. The area has always been difficult to get to, even internally the young have a long journey to leave and live in a city to have any future and externally you are at the mercy of people like Michael OLeary as to whether you can arrive or leave. The other slight issue is that it is fast becoming where they deposit thousands of refugees from all the Med crossings. Tens of thousands arrive in Lampedusa and are then distributed into the mainland of which the Puglia region is a core recipient.

As an aside, any Brit who is currently emotional over a few rubber dinghies crossing the Channel really ought to go to Sicily and see a real refugee crisis and how there is a genuine problem in Europe.

[cheesejunkie]

DonkeyApple said:

Ah. Personally, I wouldn't go near Puglia. As lovely as it is there is a reason they are trying to attract affluent immigration. The area has always been difficult to get to, even internally the young have a long journey to leave and live in a city to have any future and externally you are at the mercy of people like Michael OLeary as to whether you can arrive or leave. The other slight issue is that it is fast becoming where they deposit thousands of refugees from all the Med crossings. Tens of thousands arrive in Lampedusa and are then distributed into the mainland of which the Puglia region is a core recipient.

As an aside, any Brit who is currently emotional over a few rubber dinghies crossing the Channel really ought to go to Sicily and see a real refugee crisis and how there is a genuine problem in Europe.

Agreed with the last line but I try not to get too involved in some commenter's lives on here.

I've never been to Puglia but used to think Italy was a place I could happily spend half my retirement in, the other half in the UK. I've worked there, can speak a bit of the lingo, love the food, and like hot weather. My ambitions have switched to Spain for no real reason other than I spend more time there now.

Oh I totally get the O'Leary comment. I've family with holiday homes (I'd never be arsed, I'd rather be flexible) wailing at the cost of getting to wherever it is. Tough st. You pays your money and you takes your choice. If you want that holiday home realise some costs aren't in your control.

I'll make a very tangential reference that can easily be argued against towards privately funded schools. You decided to support a system that preserves privilege. You can't complain when the table stakes are risen by the dealer. Not aimed at you DA. Buying a getaway in Italy, you can't complain when Ryanair raise their prices. I know how far I'm stretching that analogy and how open to criticism it is. Fire away, I won't mind.

[M1AGM]

macron said:

Oh, and the stats suggest there are more private schools and more pupils everywhere. People will just pay a little more here and there.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024...

Putting aside the Guardian level of journalism these days (its not a tax loophole, the picture is of harrow boys, etc) I thought this merited conversation:

“But official Department for Education (DfE) data published last week shows that as of this January, the number of pupils in independent schools in England was 593,486, up from 591,954 the year before and an increase of 24,150 on 2020/21.”

Is 1,500 more out of 591,000 significant in a year, and what is the trend? I would argue it’s too early to see the full attrition from this policy because there will be families with children who are already in private school, who have younger siblings who would normally go to the same school, and will be the bulk of the intakes. As a parent you will cut everything you could to afford to do that. Newcomers not so much.

The labour claim that the justification for this envy tax is to recruit 6,500 more teachers has already been dismissed as fantasy as there are over 2,000 teacher vacancies now that cannot be filled and the trend is rising. What we need is an apolitical commission to put together workable policies to fix teacher retention, 40% of teachers quit in the first 2 years. So plenty would have liked to be teaching but gave up after trying. It’s frustrating that all parties seem incapable of being pragmatic over education, which is the future of our nation.

In other news we got an email from school offering a discount for prepayment of fees. The email was very clear it made no guarantees on future tax situations and was not offering financial advice etc. Policy was always no discounts for prepayments so I am quite happy to take the offer, I decided to pay the 2 years of 6th form for the oldest child to finish off 15 years of that commitment. Quite liberating.

Edited by M1AGM on Saturday 15th June 17:00

Edited by M1AGM on Saturday 15th June 17:01