Private schools, times a changing?
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
Tom8 said:
Seems like Angela Rayner wants private schools outlawed as the state is far better.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/10/an...
We all know she is as thick as mince but this proves it for us all I think.
On the same day BBC reports 34% of children are scared of knife crim in those same schools (indoctrination centres) she wants to force all children. Sounds a bit like a new version of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.
She's had 6 years of earning £100k since 2018 so her childhood prejudices and indoctrinations will be steadily weakening as she grows and becomes her own person in adult life. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/10/an...
We all know she is as thick as mince but this proves it for us all I think.
On the same day BBC reports 34% of children are scared of knife crim in those same schools (indoctrination centres) she wants to force all children. Sounds a bit like a new version of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.
It's what the regional power loons want that's most important as there's no way Starmer can stand up to the mayors and devolved powers. He can barely keep the mental quiet before they get control, once in he'll be bending over more often than a choir boy after mass.
DonkeyApple said:
VAT on household fuel/energy is another area. This is currently heavily discounted to all to just 5%. There's no real reason for that. Utility taxes are among the cheapest and easiest to collect so why not exploit that benefit? Why not set base monthly consumption levels regionally that invite no VAT at all but all consumption above that base is taxed at the normal 20%? It would be hard for many to argue against as those hot hardest would tend to be those with the ability to change habits or invest in home efficiency or production etc. Plus, it would be extremely easy to brand and sell as an eco tax on the profligate scum who oppress the honest working man.
That's a very sensible idea. soupdragon1 said:
That's a very sensible idea.
It would be hard to actually argue against. And it would mean you could drop all incentives, grants and subsidies as those of us with higher bills would be directly incentivised to invest in lowered them. It's hard to find data on the VAT currently raised at 5% on domestic utilities but I believe it is the £6bn figure from the Home VAT data set. Removing the discount above a base level of consumption would arguably raise many £bns more than attacking 7% of children in education and arguably target society more equitably while furthering the green agenda?
The Private primary schools will suffer the most. We know families who have Grandparental support with school fees and 2 that Airbnb to help with fees. Anyone who wants to balance the spending will send their kids to state school for the first few years then try to move them private for later education. That'll end some of the institutions.
Politics of envy is always pretty hurtful stuff.
Politics of envy is always pretty hurtful stuff.
jshell said:
The Private primary schools will suffer the most. We know families who have Grandparental support with school fees and 2 that Airbnb to help with fees. Anyone who wants to balance the spending will send their kids to state school for the first few years then try to move them private for later education. That'll end some of the institutions.
Politics of envy is always pretty hurtful stuff.
I guess that makes sense. If future parents are going to cut then you'd logically cut out the early years not the later ones. Maybe preps and pre-preps are the most at risk in that regard? But is this not the age area most under pressure in the state system already? Politics of envy is always pretty hurtful stuff.
DonkeyApple said:
jshell said:
The Private primary schools will suffer the most. We know families who have Grandparental support with school fees and 2 that Airbnb to help with fees. Anyone who wants to balance the spending will send their kids to state school for the first few years then try to move them private for later education. That'll end some of the institutions.
Politics of envy is always pretty hurtful stuff.
I guess that makes sense. If future parents are going to cut then you'd logically cut out the early years not the later ones. Maybe preps and pre-preps are the most at risk in that regard? But is this not the age area most under pressure in the state system already? Politics of envy is always pretty hurtful stuff.
My wife is a teacher at state school, the pressure at all levels is insane. Particularly here in Scotland after 17 years of the Nationalists. I'm financing much of her teaching resources!
From our school.
June 2024
Dear Parent or Guardian,
With the general election planned for Thursday 4 July, we continue to work hard on our financial plans and resilience should Labour be successful and move forward with their policy on VAT. There is still little information available as to the extent to which VAT would be imposed and the timescales for implementation. Even at this late stage, there remains much that is unknown about the precise details of Labour’s intended policy. For this reason, our School will need to be flexible in our response and our strategy is likely to evolve over the coming years. However, it is important that parents’ have a good understanding of what we know so far, which is that VAT at 20% would be introduced at the earliest possible point. VAT is a tax on your fees as the consumer, rather than directly on our Schools.
We continue to work on our plans to share the impact between the School and parents to avoid sudden fee increases. Our School will be able to absorb a portion of the overall impact of the imposition of VAT, although some of the increase will inevitably be passed on to parents at the point at which it is introduced.
This gradual implementation aims to shield parents from immediate financial strain, leveraging the School's financial resilience to absorb the impact over time. We are hugely proud of the educational opportunities offered by SCHOOL NAME to children from across our region and we continue to strive for academic excellence.
However, we recognise that during this time of uncertainty, this can be unsettling for parents. Our Fees in Advance scheme allows parents to plan financially by paying fees ahead in return for a discount in Year 6 at the Prep School and the same for the Sixth Form at the Senior School. Over the last couple of months, we have recognised that a number of parents would like to pay for a shorter period. As such, we are pleased to confirm that should you wish to pay for the academic year 2024-25 only in advance, we are able to provide an annual invoice for you by the end of June. This will allow you to plan your finances for the academic year 2024-25. If you wish to take this option up, please complete this form no later than Thursday 27 June and we will provide you with a short contract and invoice to be returned to the Finance Team. Should you wish to pay for longer than one year, then please do email billing
Thank you as ever for your ongoing support
June 2024
Dear Parent or Guardian,
With the general election planned for Thursday 4 July, we continue to work hard on our financial plans and resilience should Labour be successful and move forward with their policy on VAT. There is still little information available as to the extent to which VAT would be imposed and the timescales for implementation. Even at this late stage, there remains much that is unknown about the precise details of Labour’s intended policy. For this reason, our School will need to be flexible in our response and our strategy is likely to evolve over the coming years. However, it is important that parents’ have a good understanding of what we know so far, which is that VAT at 20% would be introduced at the earliest possible point. VAT is a tax on your fees as the consumer, rather than directly on our Schools.
We continue to work on our plans to share the impact between the School and parents to avoid sudden fee increases. Our School will be able to absorb a portion of the overall impact of the imposition of VAT, although some of the increase will inevitably be passed on to parents at the point at which it is introduced.
This gradual implementation aims to shield parents from immediate financial strain, leveraging the School's financial resilience to absorb the impact over time. We are hugely proud of the educational opportunities offered by SCHOOL NAME to children from across our region and we continue to strive for academic excellence.
However, we recognise that during this time of uncertainty, this can be unsettling for parents. Our Fees in Advance scheme allows parents to plan financially by paying fees ahead in return for a discount in Year 6 at the Prep School and the same for the Sixth Form at the Senior School. Over the last couple of months, we have recognised that a number of parents would like to pay for a shorter period. As such, we are pleased to confirm that should you wish to pay for the academic year 2024-25 only in advance, we are able to provide an annual invoice for you by the end of June. This will allow you to plan your finances for the academic year 2024-25. If you wish to take this option up, please complete this form no later than Thursday 27 June and we will provide you with a short contract and invoice to be returned to the Finance Team. Should you wish to pay for longer than one year, then please do email billing
Thank you as ever for your ongoing support
C4ME said:
It is rather interesting how schooling has evolved for the middle classes. State till 8. Then the rest of primary in private to help get into private secondary. Private secondary for GCSEs and then back into state for A levels to give the best change of getting into the elite universities.
A lot of the change will have been driven by seriously increased costs over the last couple of decades. Even at your average day school you have to have a lot of disposable income at your disposal if you don't have capital behind you.And only certain state schools are better for entry to elite universities - private schools are still very much over represented.
When it comes down to it, do you agree or disagree that vat on private school fees will have a positive effect on the children in state schools?
Yes some children will move into state schools but that means they get more funding (bums on seats money) which is a good thing as schools have a lot of fixed costs.
The children moving across will, on average, be from parents who give a s
t about their education and so will be a positive influence on behaviour etc.
The teachers from any private schools which do close can easily find work in a state school which benefits the shortage there.
Before I get roasted I'm not saying I agree with the policy or that it is right in this instance to negatively impact one group in order to positively impact another, but just playing devil's advocate on whether a kids in state schools will benefit and how much...
Yes some children will move into state schools but that means they get more funding (bums on seats money) which is a good thing as schools have a lot of fixed costs.
The children moving across will, on average, be from parents who give a s
t about their education and so will be a positive influence on behaviour etc.The teachers from any private schools which do close can easily find work in a state school which benefits the shortage there.
Before I get roasted I'm not saying I agree with the policy or that it is right in this instance to negatively impact one group in order to positively impact another, but just playing devil's advocate on whether a kids in state schools will benefit and how much...
Tim Cognito said:
When it comes down to it, do you agree or disagree that vat on private school fees will have a positive effect on the children in state schools?
Yes some children will move into state schools but that means they get more funding (bums on seats money) which is a good thing as schools have a lot of fixed costs.
The children moving across will, on average, be from parents who give a st about their education and so will be a positive influence on behaviour etc.
The teachers from any private schools which do close can easily find work in a state school which benefits the shortage there.
Before I get roasted I'm not saying I agree with the policy or that it is right in this instance to negatively impact one group in order to positively impact another, but just playing devil's advocate on whether a kids in state schools will benefit and how much...
Whilst there will be increased funding, there is a lag between the kids coming in and the monies coming through.Yes some children will move into state schools but that means they get more funding (bums on seats money) which is a good thing as schools have a lot of fixed costs.
The children moving across will, on average, be from parents who give a s
t about their education and so will be a positive influence on behaviour etc.The teachers from any private schools which do close can easily find work in a state school which benefits the shortage there.
Before I get roasted I'm not saying I agree with the policy or that it is right in this instance to negatively impact one group in order to positively impact another, but just playing devil's advocate on whether a kids in state schools will benefit and how much...
The parents of the kids being moved will be a massive pain - they will be pissed off at having to pull their kids out of private and will be the most demanding. My wife had this in the final years of working in state education - her school was what was generally regarded as one of the best in the area, with houses advertised as being within the catchment area.
Whilst parents weren’t paying actual fees, there was very much an entitlement that they wanted a return on their investment of higher property prices.
soxboy said:
Whilst there will be increased funding, there is a lag between the kids coming in and the monies coming through.
The parents of the kids being moved will be a massive pain - they will be pissed off at having to pull their kids out of private and will be the most demanding. My wife had this in the final years of working in state education - her school was what was generally regarded as one of the best in the area, with houses advertised as being within the catchment area.
Whilst parents weren’t paying actual fees, there was very much an entitlement that they wanted a return on their investment of higher property prices.
I don't think either of those are particularly strong arguments for against. The lag is a short term thing, surely we are all in agreement short term thinking is why the country is in such a mess.The parents of the kids being moved will be a massive pain - they will be pissed off at having to pull their kids out of private and will be the most demanding. My wife had this in the final years of working in state education - her school was what was generally regarded as one of the best in the area, with houses advertised as being within the catchment area.
Whilst parents weren’t paying actual fees, there was very much an entitlement that they wanted a return on their investment of higher property prices.
Parents being demanding is nothing new and if they are pushing to increase standards what's wrong with that. Better than having someone moaning because their kid isn't aloud to get a big Mac delivered for lunch or something.
Tim Cognito said:
soxboy said:
Whilst there will be increased funding, there is a lag between the kids coming in and the monies coming through.
The parents of the kids being moved will be a massive pain - they will be pissed off at having to pull their kids out of private and will be the most demanding. My wife had this in the final years of working in state education - her school was what was generally regarded as one of the best in the area, with houses advertised as being within the catchment area.
Whilst parents weren’t paying actual fees, there was very much an entitlement that they wanted a return on their investment of higher property prices.
I don't think either of those are particularly strong arguments for against. The lag is a short term thing, surely we are all in agreement short term thinking is why the country is in such a mess.The parents of the kids being moved will be a massive pain - they will be pissed off at having to pull their kids out of private and will be the most demanding. My wife had this in the final years of working in state education - her school was what was generally regarded as one of the best in the area, with houses advertised as being within the catchment area.
Whilst parents weren’t paying actual fees, there was very much an entitlement that they wanted a return on their investment of higher property prices.
Parents being demanding is nothing new and if they are pushing to increase standards what's wrong with that. Better than having someone moaning because their kid isn't aloud to get a big Mac delivered for lunch or something.
ts who were from affluent backgrounds but were disruptive, and whose parents had the worst entitled attitudes when senior leadership tried to enforce discipline.It wasn’t the poor kids being t
ts, it was the rich ones.It was reasons like this why my wife left, with other colleagues leaving too. Some went private, some took retirement and some went to schools in worse areas where they felt that if they were going to face s
t they would rather do it in an environment where they felt they could improve things.Now I’m not saying this is across the board (my sons school is very similar but they keep discipline in check a lot better, because parents know that if their cherub is kicked out of there they are totally f
ked for alternatives), but if this is a case in point then there are surely many other similar examples across the country.Tim Cognito said:
When it comes down to it, do you agree or disagree that vat on private school fees will have a positive effect on the children in state schools?
Yes some children will move into state schools but that means they get more funding (bums on seats money) which is a good thing as schools have a lot of fixed costs.
The children moving across will, on average, be from parents who give a st about their education and so will be a positive influence on behaviour etc.
The teachers from any private schools which do close can easily find work in a state school which benefits the shortage there.
Before I get roasted I'm not saying I agree with the policy or that it is right in this instance to negatively impact one group in order to positively impact another, but just playing devil's advocate on whether a kids in state schools will benefit and how much...
The state system has a fairly big problem in retaining people in the profession. Making the cash available to train/hire new teachers is just one small part of the wider issues in the state sector. Something in the system needs reform so that they want to stay in the profession. And that's before you get into whether there's capacity, whether new capacity can be created, what creation of any new capacity would cost, and so on, and so on.Yes some children will move into state schools but that means they get more funding (bums on seats money) which is a good thing as schools have a lot of fixed costs.
The children moving across will, on average, be from parents who give a s
t about their education and so will be a positive influence on behaviour etc.The teachers from any private schools which do close can easily find work in a state school which benefits the shortage there.
Before I get roasted I'm not saying I agree with the policy or that it is right in this instance to negatively impact one group in order to positively impact another, but just playing devil's advocate on whether a kids in state schools will benefit and how much...
If you think this will make any difference whatsoever to the state system you are utterly deluded. It will simply be more tax take that disappears into the black hole.
Tim Cognito said:
When it comes down to it, do you agree or disagree that vat on private school fees will have a positive effect on the children in state schools?
Yes some children will move into state schools but that means they get more funding (bums on seats money) which is a good thing as schools have a lot of fixed costs.
The children moving across will, on average, be from parents who give a st about their education and so will be a positive influence on behaviour etc.
The teachers from any private schools which do close can easily find work in a state school which benefits the shortage there.
Before I get roasted I'm not saying I agree with the policy or that it is right in this instance to negatively impact one group in order to positively impact another, but just playing devil's advocate on whether a kids in state schools will benefit and how much...
From first hand experience, from my daughter's private school which closed last year, a small portion of teachers went to the state sector and all have already left. This idea that it will transfer some of the success of private schooling into the state sector and will magically fix it is absolute tosh.Yes some children will move into state schools but that means they get more funding (bums on seats money) which is a good thing as schools have a lot of fixed costs.
The children moving across will, on average, be from parents who give a s
t about their education and so will be a positive influence on behaviour etc.The teachers from any private schools which do close can easily find work in a state school which benefits the shortage there.
Before I get roasted I'm not saying I agree with the policy or that it is right in this instance to negatively impact one group in order to positively impact another, but just playing devil's advocate on whether a kids in state schools will benefit and how much...
Tom8 said:
Tim Cognito said:
When it comes down to it, do you agree or disagree that vat on private school fees will have a positive effect on the children in state schools?
Yes some children will move into state schools but that means they get more funding (bums on seats money) which is a good thing as schools have a lot of fixed costs.
The children moving across will, on average, be from parents who give a st about their education and so will be a positive influence on behaviour etc.
The teachers from any private schools which do close can easily find work in a state school which benefits the shortage there.
Before I get roasted I'm not saying I agree with the policy or that it is right in this instance to negatively impact one group in order to positively impact another, but just playing devil's advocate on whether a kids in state schools will benefit and how much...
From first hand experience, from my daughter's private school which closed last year, a small portion of teachers went to the state sector and all have already left. This idea that it will transfer some of the success of private schooling into the state sector and will magically fix it is absolute tosh.Yes some children will move into state schools but that means they get more funding (bums on seats money) which is a good thing as schools have a lot of fixed costs.
The children moving across will, on average, be from parents who give a s
t about their education and so will be a positive influence on behaviour etc.The teachers from any private schools which do close can easily find work in a state school which benefits the shortage there.
Before I get roasted I'm not saying I agree with the policy or that it is right in this instance to negatively impact one group in order to positively impact another, but just playing devil's advocate on whether a kids in state schools will benefit and how much...
jshell said:
Tom8 said:
Tim Cognito said:
When it comes down to it, do you agree or disagree that vat on private school fees will have a positive effect on the children in state schools?
Yes some children will move into state schools but that means they get more funding (bums on seats money) which is a good thing as schools have a lot of fixed costs.
The children moving across will, on average, be from parents who give a st about their education and so will be a positive influence on behaviour etc.
The teachers from any private schools which do close can easily find work in a state school which benefits the shortage there.
Before I get roasted I'm not saying I agree with the policy or that it is right in this instance to negatively impact one group in order to positively impact another, but just playing devil's advocate on whether a kids in state schools will benefit and how much...
From first hand experience, from my daughter's private school which closed last year, a small portion of teachers went to the state sector and all have already left. This idea that it will transfer some of the success of private schooling into the state sector and will magically fix it is absolute tosh.Yes some children will move into state schools but that means they get more funding (bums on seats money) which is a good thing as schools have a lot of fixed costs.
The children moving across will, on average, be from parents who give a s
t about their education and so will be a positive influence on behaviour etc.The teachers from any private schools which do close can easily find work in a state school which benefits the shortage there.
Before I get roasted I'm not saying I agree with the policy or that it is right in this instance to negatively impact one group in order to positively impact another, but just playing devil's advocate on whether a kids in state schools will benefit and how much...
turbobloke said:
jshell said:
Tom8 said:
Tim Cognito said:
When it comes down to it, do you agree or disagree that vat on private school fees will have a positive effect on the children in state schools?
Yes some children will move into state schools but that means they get more funding (bums on seats money) which is a good thing as schools have a lot of fixed costs.
The children moving across will, on average, be from parents who give a st about their education and so will be a positive influence on behaviour etc.
The teachers from any private schools which do close can easily find work in a state school which benefits the shortage there.
Before I get roasted I'm not saying I agree with the policy or that it is right in this instance to negatively impact one group in order to positively impact another, but just playing devil's advocate on whether a kids in state schools will benefit and how much...
From first hand experience, from my daughter's private school which closed last year, a small portion of teachers went to the state sector and all have already left. This idea that it will transfer some of the success of private schooling into the state sector and will magically fix it is absolute tosh.Yes some children will move into state schools but that means they get more funding (bums on seats money) which is a good thing as schools have a lot of fixed costs.
The children moving across will, on average, be from parents who give a s
t about their education and so will be a positive influence on behaviour etc.The teachers from any private schools which do close can easily find work in a state school which benefits the shortage there.
Before I get roasted I'm not saying I agree with the policy or that it is right in this instance to negatively impact one group in order to positively impact another, but just playing devil's advocate on whether a kids in state schools will benefit and how much...
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