Junior Doctors' Pay Claim Poll

[borcy]

poo at Paul's said:

S600BSB said:

ArmaghMan said:

Mrs. AM is a GP partner. Total hours she works bears no relation to her contracted sessions.
Most GPs we know are in exactly the same boat.
No life. Wouldn't wish it on Rishi Sunak ( and that's really saying something).

Same.

I am sure it is, but do you think the rest of the working population is that much different?
I have been in continuous employment for the last 36 years and nowadays, work means people want more work, done faster and for lower relative money than ever before.
My wife and I never take days off sick, even if we are, and I give up 6 days per year holiday every single year, out of 22 total. We get no overtime, no flexi days, and dont get paid holiday not taken.
And I am not alone in my business or indeed sector, this is the rather sad reality of working live for tens of millions nowadays.

The modern business sector has embraced technology that was designed to make life easier, but in reality has sadly made millions of us almost prisoners to their work and jobs.

Why do you give up 6 days holiday?

[Vasco]

Mabbs9 said:

ConnectionError said:

So Kier Starmer has just confirmed that 35% is a non starter if Labour get in.

What happens now?

The last solution I heard Starmer present, was to talk to the unions. Problem solved.

Labour may be ahead on the slightly-more-likeable test but I'm seeing nothing that suggests competence.

Very true - but not sure that there are many alternatives.....We're stuffed!!

[272BHP]

ConnectionError said:

So Kier Starmer has just confirmed that 35% is a non starter if Labour get in.

What happens now?

I suspect he will offer them 15% at some point and the JDs will no doubt accept that.

That will probably be the cue for every other public sector union to go out on strike and demand the same increase.

It’s going to be a grim winter.

[BikeBikeBIke]

272BHP said:

I suspect he will offer them 15% at some point and the JDs will no doubt accept that.

That will probably be the cue for every other public sector union to go out on strike and demand the same increase.

It’s going to be a grim winter.

Maybe.

I'm not convinced though. That strategy didn't work for the SNP and Labour (and the civil service) watch the news same as we do.

[Hants PHer]

I believe that the JD's action is politically motivated. Once Labour is in power the likes of Rob Laurenson will feel that they have achieved their goal, and will quietly settle for a rather lower figure than 35%. Perhaps Labour will offer some ongoing review about pay levels and T's & C's and the BMA will say "You know, that's what we wanted all along".

[carlo996]

1. The general public couldn’t care less.
2. 10-12% is what they’re going to get.
3. All those moaning about leaving the profession won’t.

[Vasco]

carlo996 said:

1. The general public couldn’t care less.
2. 10-12% is what they’re going to get.
3. All those moaning about leaving the profession won’t.

I can't help but agree with this. The 35% claim was always ridiculous and seemed to be heavily prompted by union agitators.

[Gecko1978]

Vasco said:

carlo996 said:

1. The general public couldn’t care less.
2. 10-12% is what they’re going to get.
3. All those moaning about leaving the profession won’t.

I can't help but agree with this. The 35% claim was always ridiculous and seemed to be heavily prompted by union agitators.

If they just want 10% ish really and you think the government will give it them.....then why strike and let waiting lists rise and well people die.

They want a lot more and I think it might be a big headache for labour

[loafer123]

12-15% and the NHS covering exam fees and training costs and it’s all sorted

[BikeBikeBIke]

loafer123 said:

12-15% and the NHS covering exam fees and training costs and it’s all sorted

They got roughly that in Scotlsnd amd came back for more after 12 months. (Perhaps rightly).

[carlo996]

loafer123 said:

12-15% and the NHS covering exam fees and training costs and it’s all sorted

Only if they sign a contract agreeing to 5+ years minimum before leaving the NHS. Otherwise they can buy themselves out.

[loafer123]

carlo996 said:

loafer123 said:

12-15% and the NHS covering exam fees and training costs and it’s all sorted

Only if they sign a contract agreeing to 5+ years minimum before leaving the NHS. Otherwise they can buy themselves out.

Seems reasonable to me.

[Oliver Hardy]

carlo996 said:

loafer123 said:

12-15% and the NHS covering exam fees and training costs and it’s all sorted

Only if they sign a contract agreeing to 5+ years minimum before leaving the NHS. Otherwise they can buy themselves out.

But junior Doctors are not just 23 year olds who have just left uni, they are all Doctors who are not consultants,

[Dixy]

Oliver Hardy said:

carlo996 said:

loafer123 said:

12-15% and the NHS covering exam fees and training costs and it’s all sorted

Only if they sign a contract agreeing to 5+ years minimum before leaving the NHS. Otherwise they can buy themselves out.

But junior Doctors are not just 23 year olds who have just left uni, they are all Doctors who are not consultants,

Being totally clueless about the whole subject does not stop some thinking there view is correct

[spaximus]

poo at Paul's said:

S600BSB said:

ArmaghMan said:

Mrs. AM is a GP partner. Total hours she works bears no relation to her contracted sessions.
Most GPs we know are in exactly the same boat.
No life. Wouldn't wish it on Rishi Sunak ( and that's really saying something).

Same.

I am sure it is, but do you think the rest of the working population is that much different?
I have been in continuous employment for the last 36 years and nowadays, work means people want more work, done faster and for lower relative money than ever before.
My wife and I never take days off sick, even if we are, and I give up 6 days per year holiday every single year, out of 22 total. We get no overtime, no flexi days, and dont get paid holiday not taken.
And I am not alone in my business or indeed sector, this is the rather sad reality of working live for tens of millions nowadays.

The modern business sector has embraced technology that was designed to make life easier, but in reality has sadly made millions of us almost prisoners to their work and jobs.

I cannot understand anyone doing what you claim to do. If you are so afraid of loosing your job that you give up holidays etc then that suggests your employer is taking advantage of you and is probably why Union representation is still necessary in this day and age.

[spaximus]

Dixy said:

Oliver Hardy said:

carlo996 said:

loafer123 said:

12-15% and the NHS covering exam fees and training costs and it’s all sorted

Only if they sign a contract agreeing to 5+ years minimum before leaving the NHS. Otherwise they can buy themselves out.

But junior Doctors are not just 23 year olds who have just left uni, they are all Doctors who are not consultants,

Being totally clueless about the whole subject does not stop some thinking there view is correct

I agree Dixy. Starmer has said what he has because if he said he will pay in full he would get slaughtered in the press for doing so because the one thing that the Tories have done is whip up anti Dr feeling by not being truthful.

The latest HS Atkins has not negotiated at all, they agreed to go to mediation and then refused to alter their stance at all, hence the new strike date.
They have had no intention of settling this instead are leaving it for Labour as they know to get waiting lists down Labour will have to settle this and quickly, which will then be spun as Labour controlled by the unions.

All this talk about it being political is nonsense, most of the Dr's my daughter knows are not Labour supporters, they just want a fair deal and all know they are not getting 35% but if they got a similar offer to Scotland who have committed over time to restore their pay and yes all fees paid then it would be settled.

If Starmer gets them sorted for say 12-15% plus the other things that improves JD lives, quickly and starts reducing the wait lists he will look good. Most do not want to leave but after 9 years as a qualified Anaesthetics Dr the approaches she is getting are a huge package improvement including pension etc to work in Aus. From Dr's she knows at least 12 have left this year alone to work aboard so it is a fact that many have had enough which is sad.

The people who are sufferring are the patients who the political leaders have let down badly

[poo at Paul's]

spaximus said:

poo at Paul's said:

S600BSB said:

ArmaghMan said:

Mrs. AM is a GP partner. Total hours she works bears no relation to her contracted sessions.
Most GPs we know are in exactly the same boat.
No life. Wouldn't wish it on Rishi Sunak ( and that's really saying something).

Same.

I am sure it is, but do you think the rest of the working population is that much different?
I have been in continuous employment for the last 36 years and nowadays, work means people want more work, done faster and for lower relative money than ever before.
My wife and I never take days off sick, even if we are, and I give up 6 days per year holiday every single year, out of 22 total. We get no overtime, no flexi days, and dont get paid holiday not taken.
And I am not alone in my business or indeed sector, this is the rather sad reality of working live for tens of millions nowadays.

The modern business sector has embraced technology that was designed to make life easier, but in reality has sadly made millions of us almost prisoners to their work and jobs.

I cannot understand anyone doing what you claim to do. If you are so afraid of loosing your job that you give up holidays etc then that suggests your employer is taking advantage of you and is probably why Union representation is still necessary in this day and age.

Where did i say we are worried about losing our jobs? Stop making things up

[Hants PHer]

spaximus said:

<edited to highlight this comment>
All this talk about it being political is nonsense, most of the Dr's my daughter knows are not Labour supporters

I disagree; consider the dates of the next strike (27th June - 2nd July). Striking when an election is days away is a blatant piece of political activism, designed to remind people about the Nasty Tories on the eve of polling day. Junior doctors have allowed themselves to be manipulated by the BMA leadership, whatever the JD's own politics might be.

There's no chance of negotiations in that time frame and the BMA knows it. Meanwhile patients will suffer, again, due to BMA activism.

[markh1973]

poo at Paul's said:

spaximus said:

poo at Paul's said:

S600BSB said:

ArmaghMan said:

Mrs. AM is a GP partner. Total hours she works bears no relation to her contracted sessions.
Most GPs we know are in exactly the same boat.
No life. Wouldn't wish it on Rishi Sunak ( and that's really saying something).

Same.

I am sure it is, but do you think the rest of the working population is that much different?
I have been in continuous employment for the last 36 years and nowadays, work means people want more work, done faster and for lower relative money than ever before.
My wife and I never take days off sick, even if we are, and I give up 6 days per year holiday every single year, out of 22 total. We get no overtime, no flexi days, and dont get paid holiday not taken.
And I am not alone in my business or indeed sector, this is the rather sad reality of working live for tens of millions nowadays.

The modern business sector has embraced technology that was designed to make life easier, but in reality has sadly made millions of us almost prisoners to their work and jobs.

I cannot understand anyone doing what you claim to do. If you are so afraid of loosing your job that you give up holidays etc then that suggests your employer is taking advantage of you and is probably why Union representation is still necessary in this day and age.

Where did i say we are worried about losing our jobs? Stop making things up

Why do you give up over a quarter of your holiday? If I don't take enough holiday my boss would be making sure I took time off, same as I do for my team. Very very few people are so indispensible that they can't take holiday.

[JagLover]

Hants PHer said:

spaximus said:

<edited to highlight this comment>
All this talk about it being political is nonsense, most of the Dr's my daughter knows are not Labour supporters

I disagree; consider the dates of the next strike (27th June - 2nd July). Striking when an election is days away is a blatant piece of political activism, designed to remind people about the Nasty Tories on the eve of polling day. Junior doctors have allowed themselves to be manipulated by the BMA leadership, whatever the JD's own politics might be.

There's no chance of negotiations in that time frame and the BMA knows it. Meanwhile patients will suffer, again, due to BMA activism.

Yes we are currently in Purdah, so not sure if the government would even be legally allowed to reach a settlement should they wish to.

So it is a strike for the sake of having a strike with no negotiated settlement possible this side of the election.