What is the Conservative legacy?
Discussion
Wombat3 said:
President Merkin said:
Human rights are universal. This really does need to compute with the leave the ECHR crowd. You say you trust us to make sensible decisions when two or three posts above, I listed a bunch of irrational, illegal decisions made by the current government, I don't know how much more I could put the evidence under your nose but you ought to accept that the protections the ECHR confers on you and your beloved family are gone forever if we left.
It's the myopia that kills me in this. The idea that junking a set of high minded protections we were instrumental in creating in order to deal with a trivial issue won't ever have serious repercussions for us is madness, pure vandalism. Incredible that I get accused of student union politics in the context of this beyond shallow thinking.
Either way it's never happening, so may as well forget the whole thing.
Opinions may vary (and that's OK).It's the myopia that kills me in this. The idea that junking a set of high minded protections we were instrumental in creating in order to deal with a trivial issue won't ever have serious repercussions for us is madness, pure vandalism. Incredible that I get accused of student union politics in the context of this beyond shallow thinking.
Either way it's never happening, so may as well forget the whole thing.
We are, inherently, a high-minded, fair, lawful, reasonable and relatively incorrupt nation. Unfortunately, that cannot be said for all and as such people (and countries) will take the piss.
We need to be able to protect ourselves from that & I see no reason to need to entrust that to others.
To leave just because they may have helped some vulnerable people who you dislike not be herded onto a plane is just stupidity.
Wombat3 said:
biggbn said:
Wombat3 said:
President Merkin said:
Wombat3 said:
I say the ECHR is a EU body. We are not in the EU.
Well you say wrong, That isn't opinion, it's a fact. Nothing after that matters, You've dropped an unbelievable clanger in your very first sentence. Is there a Tory round here anywhere with even a passing acquaintance with the real world? Given recent meddling with who we can and can't deport from the UK, it can go.
Others? Not so sure.
In the case of the recent issue with immigration the EHCR have been pontificating on whether we can or can't deport people who originate from countries over which in fact they have no jurisdiction.
Their decisions have not been in the UK' s interests and therefore not in the people of the UK's interests. What about their "rights"?
Wombat3 said:
President Merkin said:
Human rights are universal. This really does need to compute with the leave the ECHR crowd. You say you trust us to make sensible decisions when two or three posts above, I listed a bunch of irrational, illegal decisions made by the current government, I don't know how much more I could put the evidence under your nose but you ought to accept that the protections the ECHR confers on you and your beloved family are gone forever if we left.
It's the myopia that kills me in this. The idea that junking a set of high minded protections we were instrumental in creating in order to deal with a trivial issue won't ever have serious repercussions for us is madness, pure vandalism. Incredible that I get accused of student union politics in the context of this beyond shallow thinking.
Either way it's never happening, so may as well forget the whole thing.
Opinions may vary (and that's OK).It's the myopia that kills me in this. The idea that junking a set of high minded protections we were instrumental in creating in order to deal with a trivial issue won't ever have serious repercussions for us is madness, pure vandalism. Incredible that I get accused of student union politics in the context of this beyond shallow thinking.
Either way it's never happening, so may as well forget the whole thing.
We are, inherently, a high-minded, fair, lawful, reasonable and relatively incorrupt nation. Unfortunately, that cannot be said for all and as such people (and countries) will take the piss.
We need to be able to protect ourselves from that & I see no reason to need to entrust that to others.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Whilst we're not Russia or North Korea I'm amazed people are so trusting of a Government that's repeatedly shown utter contempt for the rule of law.
I'm not aware of any situation where the Government has not ultimately had to comply with British law.Anyone that has tried to ride roughshod over it has been pulled up and reigned in. The British legal system works just fine.
I'm going to bump this thread as it's likely to be the last full day before a change of government. During the campaign I have seen very little of the conservatives stating what they are proud of achieving in the last 14 years.
Is this a first? Every previous election I recall, the incumbent party was stating how they would build on their achievements.
SD.
Is this a first? Every previous election I recall, the incumbent party was stating how they would build on their achievements.
SD.
shed driver said:
I'm going to bump this thread as it's likely to be the last full day before a change of government. During the campaign I have seen very little of the conservatives stating what they are proud of achieving in the last 14 years.
Is this a first? Every previous election I recall, the incumbent party was stating how they would build on their achievements.
SD.
Not much. They've basically spent 14 years fighting fires Is this a first? Every previous election I recall, the incumbent party was stating how they would build on their achievements.
SD.
Some of which they managed to start themselves.
Though probably their greatest sin is that they will deliver us a Labour Government !
shed driver said:
After being in power for over half a generation what has the Conservative government measurably improved since 2010?
SD.
Kinda made me think of the Monty Python sketch on what have the Romans done for usSD.
Except the answer would be nothing
Only highlight of the last 14 years would be "eat out to help out" jesus you f
ked the economy by locking it down and paying people to sit at home and when the cork was about to be shot out of the bottle you thought it would be a good idea to subsidise the recovery when people would have done it anyway - Rishi you fking stupid b'stardvotes.will be remembered for making mistakes with covid by all those with second sight.
They will be remembered for breaking covid rules, when in reality every bugger and his dog broke the rulrs.
They will be remembered for somehow being responsible for the cost of living crisis, and not putin after all.
They will be remembered for brexit , though it was not actually them that voted for it.
They will be remembered for letting an otherwise unelectable labour party into power.
Though again, thEy are not casting the votes.
They will be remembered for breaking covid rules, when in reality every bugger and his dog broke the rulrs.
They will be remembered for somehow being responsible for the cost of living crisis, and not putin after all.
They will be remembered for brexit , though it was not actually them that voted for it.
They will be remembered for letting an otherwise unelectable labour party into power.
Though again, thEy are not casting the votes.
B'stard Child said:
Kinda made me think of the Monty Python sketch on what have the Romans done for us
Except the answer would be nothing
Only highlight of the last 14 years would be "eat out to help out" jesus you fked the economy by locking it down and paying people to sit at home and when the cork was about to be shot out of the bottle you thought it would be a good idea to subsidise the recovery when people would have done it anyway - Rishi you fking stupid b'stard
Great to have hindsight.Except the answer would be nothing
Only highlight of the last 14 years would be "eat out to help out" jesus you f
ked the economy by locking it down and paying people to sit at home and when the cork was about to be shot out of the bottle you thought it would be a good idea to subsidise the recovery when people would have done it anyway - Rishi you fking stupid b'stardOf course we all knew covid wouldn't be far worse.
And anywAy feck the elderly and vulnerable ... they're going to die anyway.
What if covid had been far worse and the government hadn't locked down?
You'd be ok with that now?
philv said:
B'stard Child said:
Kinda made me think of the Monty Python sketch on what have the Romans done for us
Except the answer would be nothing
Only highlight of the last 14 years would be "eat out to help out" jesus you fked the economy by locking it down and paying people to sit at home and when the cork was about to be shot out of the bottle you thought it would be a good idea to subsidise the recovery when people would have done it anyway - Rishi you fking stupid b'stard
Great to have hindsight.Except the answer would be nothing
Only highlight of the last 14 years would be "eat out to help out" jesus you f
ked the economy by locking it down and paying people to sit at home and when the cork was about to be shot out of the bottle you thought it would be a good idea to subsidise the recovery when people would have done it anyway - Rishi you fking stupid b'stardOf course we all knew covid wouldn't be far worse.
And anywAy feck the elderly and vulnerable ... they're going to die anyway.
What if covid had been far worse and the government hadn't locked down?
You'd be ok with that now?
It’s not hindsight - I said it at the time
All the clues on how harmful covid was going to be were known right at the start
Everybody dies - no one is immortal - fact
The first lock down I can almost understand rest of the actions taken not at all
B'stard Child said:
philv said:
B'stard Child said:
Only highlight of the last 14 years would be "eat out to help out" jesus you fked the economy by locking it down and paying people to sit at home and when the cork was about to be shot out of the bottle you thought it would be a good idea to subsidise the recovery when people would have done it anyway - Rishi you fking stupid b'stard
Great to have hindsight.ked the economy by locking it down and paying people to sit at home and when the cork was about to be shot out of the bottle you thought it would be a good idea to subsidise the recovery when people would have done it anyway - Rishi you fking stupid b'stardOf course we all knew covid wouldn't be far worse.
And anywAy feck the elderly and vulnerable ... they're going to die anyway.
What if covid had been far worse and the government hadn't locked down?
You'd be ok with that now?
It’s not hindsight - I said it at the time
All the clues on how harmful covid was going to be were known right at the start
Everybody dies - no one is immortal - fact
The first lock down I can almost understand rest of the actions taken not at all
Their behaviour around Covid just matched the rest of their behaviour over the last 14 years.
Punish workers and young, optimistic people and reward the old and angry.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Crooked behaviour normalised.
Managed decline.
A fall in living standards for the first time in most people’s living memory.
I usually avoid the Guardian like the weeks-old liberal dishwater that it is, but they have put out two good articles surveying the Conservative legacy in the past few days:Managed decline.
A fall in living standards for the first time in most people’s living memory.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactiv...
And especially this one:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/p...
Gloss over the editorialising and standard-issue handwringing. Focus on the factual stats and the timeline.
Especially, in the second link, focus on the comparison between Cameron's rhetoric before and immediately after 2010 and the tangible results we're sitting with in 2024.
It's arrestingly dire. And I say that as someone who voted Tory in 2010. The complete moral abrogation of the coalition government, how policy was so divorced from their rhetoric and how a 'Conservative' government almost wholly dismantled Britain's civic institutions and social fabric (and, as if that wasn't bad enough, made no effort to replace them) is a huge part in why my politics are what they are now. Scales falling from eyes and all that.
oyster said:
Punish workers and young, optimistic people and reward the old and angry.
The 2010-2024 Conservative mission statement. E:
Just to provide a bit of content for those who can't/won't go through the links. This is from the second article:
The Guardian said:
“If you’re frightened,” he claimed, “we’ll protect you!” (nearly 2 million people are currently on waiting lists for mental health services). “And if you risk your life to fight for your country, we will honour you!” (The unimaginably chaotic airlift from Kabul was overseen by a Tory foreign secretary who refused to cancel his summer holiday and a prime minister who allegedly prioritised headlines about repatriating dogs.)
...
“I see a country where more children grow up with security and love because family life comes first!” he exclaimed. (The Joseph Rowntree foundation reported last year that 3.8m people in the UK, including 1 million children, now live “in destitution”, a figure that has increased two and a half times since 2017.) “I see a country where communities govern themselves — organising local services, independent of Whitehall, a great handing back of power to people!” (Between 2010 and 2020, overall funding for local authorities was cut by 40%. Thirteen councils have filed section 114 bankruptcy notices since 2018; half of all councils warn of bankruptcy within five years.)
...
“I see a country where more children grow up with security and love because family life comes first!” he exclaimed. (The Joseph Rowntree foundation reported last year that 3.8m people in the UK, including 1 million children, now live “in destitution”, a figure that has increased two and a half times since 2017.) “I see a country where communities govern themselves — organising local services, independent of Whitehall, a great handing back of power to people!” (Between 2010 and 2020, overall funding for local authorities was cut by 40%. Thirteen councils have filed section 114 bankruptcy notices since 2018; half of all councils warn of bankruptcy within five years.)
Edited by 2xChevrons on Thursday 4th July 08:37
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