Junior Doctors' Pay Claim Poll

[djc206]

Timothy Bucktu said:

I chose the 1 to 4% option, which is what I got working in the private sector...or the real world, if you will.

Maybe you should unionise and fight for more reasonable pay like doctors?

I also work in the real world and we achieved 3 years of cpi plus a cash cost of living bung for this year. Sucks to be you.

[pghstochaj]

86 said:

pghstochaj said:

86 said:

crankedup5 said:

Hants PHer said:

I worry where this is headed. If there's a situation where junior doctors AND nurses are striking at the same time, there could be serious danger to maintaining healthcare. So far, there's been an understanding that emergency care, and (IIRC) oncology and midwifery have all been protected from the impact of strikes. Might this change? Are we looking at a situation where staff in A&E, cancer services and even midwife provision are on the picket line while patients are left unattended? Just asking the question...........

If the government play hardball, then who blinks first?

The Government have the responsibility. ensuring health and well-being of the Nation.

And I thought people joined as a Doctor or nurse because they wanted to care for people. I find it very difficult to see how these militants on picket lines have the interests of patients anywhere near their thinking. Everything is designed to cause the maximum pain to patients and I guess some of those will be their own families. They must take full responsibility for the extra deaths that will follow. 35% pay request shows they are not serious and it’s find a way to bring the Tory government to its knees

What should the pay request be and why, then?

I got 5% in the private sector and I don’t have a gold plated pension scheme. My aunt got a 10.1% pension increase this year from the NHS paid for by the taxpayer. You don’t get pensions like that in the private sector ! Never see a poor doctor most do private work on the side. You only have to look at the size of their pension pots.

And again, what should the pay request be and why, then?

[272BHP]

sawman said:

They do care, thats why they are pointing out that the nhs is on its knees and the government have caused it, with pay freezes and below inflation rises since cameron was in downing st.

The responsibility lies fully with the government

They are refusing to do their jobs which means patients will suffer and some will die as a result.

Frame it anyway you like, that is the bottom line.

[pghstochaj]

272BHP said:

sawman said:

They do care, thats why they are pointing out that the nhs is on its knees and the government have caused it, with pay freezes and below inflation rises since cameron was in downing st.

The responsibility lies fully with the government

They are refusing to do their jobs which means patients will suffer and some will die as a result.

Frame it anyway you like, that is the bottom line.

With the bigger picture being that junior doctors need to be paid well to avoid them leaving the U.K., leaving the NHS, not training in the first place or working to rule. That’s the real bottom line and the far bigger risk than a few strike days.

[djc206]

272BHP said:

They are refusing to do their jobs which means patients will suffer and some will die as a result.

Frame it anyway you like, that is the bottom line.

So the government should hurry up and agree a reasonable pay deal then rather than dragging their heels? It’s government intransigence that’s causing this problem.

[pavarotti1980]

86 said:

I got 5% in the private sector and I don’t have a gold plated pension scheme. My aunt got a 10.1% pension increase this year from the NHS paid for by the taxpayer. You don’t get pensions like that in the private sector ! Never see a poor doctor most do private work on the side. You only have to look at the size of their pension pots.

That will be the same % increase that all pensioners got then...sorry to tell you but your aunt is lnt special

[sawman]

272BHP said:

They are refusing to do their jobs which means patients will suffer and some will die as a result.

Frame it anyway you like, that is the bottom line.

Steve Barclay isnt doing his job in resolving this at present.
All the previous health secretary and possibly chancellors since 2010 have been derelict in their duty for creating the situation where huge swathes of their workforce have felt unable to continue in their jobs.

[valiant]

Timothy Bucktu said:

I chose the 1 to 4% option, which is what I got working in the private sector...or the real world, if you will.

Real world got an average rise of 7%.

You need to have a word with your boss…

[86]

pavarotti1980 said:

86 said:

I got 5% in the private sector and I don’t have a gold plated pension scheme. My aunt got a 10.1% pension increase this year from the NHS paid for by the taxpayer. You don’t get pensions like that in the private sector ! Never see a poor doctor most do private work on the side. You only have to look at the size of their pension pots.

That will be the same % increase that all pensioners got then...sorry to tell you but your aunt is lnt special

NHS pension not state

https://www.sor.org/news/government-nhs/nhs-pensio...

Edited by 86 on Saturday 15th April 09:41

[86]

sawman said:

272BHP said:

They are refusing to do their jobs which means patients will suffer and some will die as a result.

Frame it anyway you like, that is the bottom line.

Steve Barclay isnt doing his job in resolving this at present.
All the previous health secretary and possibly chancellors since 2010 have been derelict in their duty for creating the situation where huge swathes of their workforce have felt unable to continue in their jobs.

You can’t enter negotiations when someone is demanding 35%. Drop the claim and then enter negotiations like grown ups

[86]

djc206 said:

272BHP said:

They are refusing to do their jobs which means patients will suffer and some will die as a result.

Frame it anyway you like, that is the bottom line.

So the government should hurry up and agree a reasonable pay deal then rather than dragging their heels? It’s government intransigence that’s causing this problem.

Why should the Government do anything it’s the taxpayer who pays. It’s the unions causing the problems with ridiculous 35% demands. Let them lose pay and they can take responsibility for the excess deaths. Shameful behaviour

[NerveAgent]

86 said:

Why should the Government do anything it’s the taxpayer who pays. It’s the unions causing the problems with ridiculous 35% demands. Let them lose pay and they can take responsibility for the excess deaths. Shameful behaviour

Is all this anger because your employer fobbed you off with a st pay rise? (Or effective pay cut)

[valiant]

86 said:

Why should the Government do anything it’s the taxpayer who pays. It’s the unions causing the problems with ridiculous 35% demands. Let them lose pay and they can take responsibility for the excess deaths. Shameful behaviour

You said above they should negotiate like grown ups and then say why should the government do anything.

The government is the employer and should enter talks in good faith and open mind. Everyone with an ounce of sense knows that the 35% is an opening gambit and that they’ll never get it but you start high, load the rhetoric a bit and then accept something lower in the end. Which they will.

The only thing that is shameful is that doctors (and nurses for that matter) felt the need to ballot in the first place.

[sawman]

86 said:

You can’t enter negotiations when someone is demanding 35%. Drop the claim and then enter negotiations like grown ups

why not? steve could just turn up and negotiate in the room like the grown up public servant he is

Edited by sawman on Saturday 15th April 09:57

[pghstochaj]

NerveAgent said:

86 said:

Why should the Government do anything it’s the taxpayer who pays. It’s the unions causing the problems with ridiculous 35% demands. Let them lose pay and they can take responsibility for the excess deaths. Shameful behaviour

Is all this anger because your employer fobbed you off with a st pay rise? (Or effective pay cut)

He seems to think that his value to his employer is some way linked to the value of junior doctors to their employer. He also seems to be confused in thinking that the 35% is equivalent to an annual increase rather than an assessment of everything that junior doctors believe that they have lost over the last 15 years. That is, the discussion here is not 35% versus 4%.

A newly qualified doctor after a five year degree and huge student debt gets £29k in 2023. Compared to other careers available to the standard of person going into medicine, this is very low. As a new engineering graduate in 2008 I got a lot more than that.

[Timothy Bucktu]

valiant said:

Timothy Bucktu said:

I chose the 1 to 4% option, which is what I got working in the private sector...or the real world, if you will.

Real world got an average rise of 7%.

You need to have a word with your boss…

I'm genuinely surprised it's that much. I actually got 2.5%.

[sawman]

pghstochaj said:

NerveAgent said:

86 said:

Why should the Government do anything it’s the taxpayer who pays. It’s the unions causing the problems with ridiculous 35% demands. Let them lose pay and they can take responsibility for the excess deaths. Shameful behaviour

Is all this anger because your employer fobbed you off with a st pay rise? (Or effective pay cut)

He seems to think that his value to his employer is some way linked to the value of junior doctors to their employer. He also seems to be confused in thinking that the 35% is equivalent to an annual increase rather than an assessment of everything that junior doctors believe that they have lost over the last 15 years. That is, the discussion here is not 35% versus 4%.

A newly qualified doctor after a five year degree and huge student debt gets £29k in 2023. Compared to other careers available to the standard of person going into medicine, this is very low. As a new engineering graduate in 2008 I got a lot more than that.

to be fair to our outraged friend, the line that the daily mail and the like are selling is that its a 35% v4% argument for this year, with no mention of pay freezes and below inflation rises and the exodus of health professionals that this has caused.

[pghstochaj]

sawman said:

to be fair to our outraged friend, the line that the daily mail and the like are selling is that its a 35% v4% argument for this year, with no mention of pay freezes and below inflation rises and the exodus of health professionals that this has caused.

Less tabloid reading and more critical thought needed I think.

Consultants next and their pay erosion has been much worse than nurses and juniors.

[djc206]

86 said:

Why should the Government do anything it’s the taxpayer who pays. It’s the unions causing the problems with ridiculous 35% demands. Let them lose pay and they can take responsibility for the excess deaths. Shameful behaviour

Why should the government agree a pay offer with doctors in an expedient fashion? For the exact reason you stated, it’s costing the country its health.

[FiF]

sawman said:

86 said:

You can’t enter negotiations when someone is demanding 35%. Drop the claim and then enter negotiations like grown ups

why not? steve could just turn up anf negotiate in the room like the grown up public servant he is

To be fair the Government should turn up, dissect and ridicule the childish and inaccurate illiterate mathematical gymnastics that the BMA are using to try to justify the 35% then not share the contents of papers in a folder marked Govt offer on the cover but sit back and let the silence build.

Judging by the attitudes shown at times there'd then be a stamping of feet, a rolling on the floor like a toddler denied some sweeties in the shop and a walkout.

Still think the way forward is modelled on the Navy Medical cadet sponsorship. More financial and other assistance during school and training but a requirement for x years service afterwards. Fail to do that, every penny paid back plus interest.