Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party? (Vol. 2)

[768]

Derek Smith said:

Murph7355 said:

1) He is changing VAT - on private school fees

1/ VAT remains the same at 20%.

VAT isn't always 20%. Sometimes there are reduced rates, although some people now believe this is a subsidy. I can't imagine a rate less than the standard rate given the arguments made for it.

For some reason the IFS made up figure that had people talking about 40,000 extra pupils to accommodate in the state sector as a result was based on an effective VAT rate of 15%.

Labour aren't even in yet and there are already private schools who have seen much larger drops for this year's intake than the IFS prediction.

[bitchstewie]

philv said:

If the conservatives had stuck with Boris theyd be getting reelected on 4th july.

This isn't down to Boris.

It's down to the tory infighting and changes of leadership.

This country is going to be screwed by a hard left government because the torys could not present a unified front.

If Johnson hadn't been completely and utterly bent you mean?

Because you must have forgotten that part.

This is entirely self-inflicted.

You (not you personally) were told at the time but hey "will of the people" you know.

Guess that's where we are now too.

[Mr Penguin]

Boris would have done much better than Rishi if he'd stayed on and had no more scandals and could probably have convinced a lot of people to forget the parties, but we all know that it would have continued with yet another scandal after yet another scandal because that's what Boris brings.

[bitchstewie]

Mr Penguin said:

Boris would have done much better than Rishi if he'd stayed on and had no more scandals and could probably have convinced a lot of people to forget the parties, but we all know that it would have continued with yet another scandal after yet another scandal because that's what Boris brings.

As you say though he was incapable of no more scandals and people don't and haven't forgotten the lies and the parties.

I'm sure at some point something will come up at some point but genuinely is nobody even a tiny bit surprised at the utter lack of scandal in the Labour party in comparison to the Conservatives?

Both in quantity and seriousness.

[768]

bhstewie said:

I'm sure at some point something will come up at some point but genuinely is nobody even a tiny bit surprised at the utter lack of scandal in the Labour party in comparison to the Conservatives?

I appreciate you're too new to politics to understand this, but it's how it works when you're in government. The Conservatives were seen to be scandal free during the scandalous last Labour government, before which the Conservatives were the party of scandals.

It will be Labour's turn again next.

[andy43]

S600BSB said:

James6112 said:

Not a bad week at the office.
How’s Rishi doing?

A really lovely picture. He’s bringing it home! Bravo.

Looks like it was a great concert.

[Mr Penguin]

bhstewie said:

As you say though he was incapable of no more scandals and people don't and haven't forgotten the lies and the parties.

I'm sure at some point something will come up at some point but genuinely is nobody even a tiny bit surprised at the utter lack of scandal in the Labour party in comparison to the Conservatives?

Both in quantity and seriousness.

Part of the reason people haven't forgotten about the parties is because Truss was useless and Rishi didn't bury it so it became a symbol of wider incompetence as much as an active issue in itself. I think if you ask people how important they are in their vote they will get more prominence now the betting scandal is in the news than they would last week.

I'm not surprised that Labour doesn't have many scandals - there are fewer opportunities in opposition and those that are there are also available to the government (who by definition have more MPs so more opportunities for backbenchers to do something), the media narrative is still focused on the Conservatives and not on Labour, and they are more disciplined because they can sense being in office in two weeks time with relatively new candidates and a lot of choice.

[Gecko1978]

bhstewie said:

philv said:

If the conservatives had stuck with Boris theyd be getting reelected on 4th july.

This isn't down to Boris.

It's down to the tory infighting and changes of leadership.

This country is going to be screwed by a hard left government because the torys could not present a unified front.

If Johnson hadn't been completely and utterly bent you mean?

Because you must have forgotten that part.

This is entirely self-inflicted.

You (not you personally) were told at the time but hey "will of the people" you know.

Guess that's where we are now too.

Just like with Zed sooner ot later I agree with Stewie thr conservatives are going to loose not because labour are better but because they the torys destroyed themselves

[borcy]

bhstewie said:

Mr Penguin said:

Boris would have done much better than Rishi if he'd stayed on and had no more scandals and could probably have convinced a lot of people to forget the parties, but we all know that it would have continued with yet another scandal after yet another scandal because that's what Boris brings.

As you say though he was incapable of no more scandals and people don't and haven't forgotten the lies and the parties.

I'm sure at some point something will come up at some point but genuinely is nobody even a tiny bit surprised at the utter lack of scandal in the Labour party in comparison to the Conservatives?

Both in quantity and seriousness.

Not really they're in opposition. No one looks too closely and there's less chance to get caught with your hand in the till.

You'll have to wait till labour are in gov for their scandals.

[greygoose]

bhstewie said:

As you say though he was incapable of no more scandals and people don't and haven't forgotten the lies and the parties.

I'm sure at some point something will come up at some point but genuinely is nobody even a tiny bit surprised at the utter lack of scandal in the Labour party in comparison to the Conservatives?

Both in quantity and seriousness.

Perhaps Starmer has done a deal with Murdoch to hide the fact his dad ran a dildo factory all those years ago?

[.:ian:.]

biggbn said:

.:ian:. said:

biggbn said:

.:ian:. said:

He is a simple ex-barrister tool-makers son.

I don't get this sneering. He can be both, can't he?

Well he is both, but one is mentioned more frequently.

Mostly by others....

[Murph7355]

hidetheelephants said:

It's a luxury, it gets taxed along with all the other luxuries.

We'll that's telling....

Anyone regarding education as a luxury is an idiot. (ad hom me all you like, point and opinion remains).

If state education was good enough on a nationally consistent basis then using private education should be unnecessary. It isn't. That is what the govt should focus on.

Instead they are tapping into "it's unfair" and getting people all frothy about how unfair it is.... Rather than how unfair it is we don't all have access to the same standard of state provided education.

If there are 450k "spaces" already, they shouldn't need MORE money to fix the genuine issues. The 1.5bn pipedteam that will never materialise will fix nothing.

It shows exactly where the priority is. It is levelling DOWN.

[Sway]

.:ian:. said:

biggbn said:

.:ian:. said:

biggbn said:

.:ian:. said:

He is a simple ex-barrister tool-makers son.

I don't get this sneering. He can be both, can't he?

Well he is both, but one is mentioned more frequently.

Mostly by others....

When even PolJOE is taking the piss, it's noticeable!

Although I'd hazard a guess that they're still a little sore Corby isn't running for PM.

[Wombat3]

andy43 said:

Looks like it was a great concert.

ISWYDT

[Mr Penguin]

Sway said:

When even PolJOE is taking the piss, it's noticeable!

Although I'd hazard a guess that they're still a little sore Corby isn't running for PM.

Only surprising that they didn't call him Keith

[BigMon]

philv said:

If the conservatives had stuck with Boris theyd be getting reelected on 4th july.

This isn't down to Boris.

It's down to the tory infighting and changes of leadership.

This country is going to be screwed by a hard left government because the torys could not present a unified front.

Hard left government?

Ah more, 'Project Fear Labour' cobblers. Got it.

Using the same fantasy rationale I could blather on about there being a hard right government if the Conservatives get re-elected, after a combined Braverman\Farage coup at the head of a baying Tufton Street mob.

[BigMon]

Gecko1978 said:

Just like with Zed sooner ot later I agree with Stewie thr conservatives are going to loose not because labour are better but because they the torys destroyed themselves

Exactly. Sunak is in the somewhat unique position of captaining the Titanic whilst having a map of the icebergs and aiming for every single one of them.

As a result, it's looking like Labour have a good chance of getting a super-majority not through competence but through the public being absolutely sick to death of the incumbents while Sunak runs possibly the worst election campaign ever.

The truth is, apart from the hard left Eeyoring cobblers on here, Labour have pretty much had a free pass during this campaign, and the press spotlight has not been shone on them or their policies really as Sunak is too busy gesticulating to the press at the open goal he is presenting.

So apart from one or two soundbites, and the VAT on private schools headline, there hasn't been much said at all. There has certainly nothing being shown that would persuade me to vote for them.

[turbobloke]

BigMon said:

Gecko1978 said:

Just like with Zed sooner ot later I agree with Stewie thr conservatives are going to loose not because labour are better but because they the torys destroyed themselves

Exactly. Sunak is in the somewhat unique position of captaining the Titanic whilst having a map of the icebergs and aiming for every single one of them.

As a result, it's looking like Labour have a good chance of getting a super-majority not through competence but through the public being absolutely sick to death of the incumbents while Sunak runs possibly the worst election campaign ever.

The truth is, apart from the hard left Eeyoring cobblers on here, Labour have pretty much had a free pass during this campaign, and the press spotlight has not been shone on them or their policies really as Sunak is too busy gesticulating to the press at the open goal he is presenting.

So apart from one or two soundbites, and the VAT on private schools headline, there hasn't been much said at all. There has certainly nothing being shown that would persuade me to vote for them.

Good summary.

[BigMon]

turbobloke said:

Good summary.

And it gives me no pleasure whatsoever to make that summary.

I was listening to Tobias Ellwood on 5 Live half an hour ago and he gave a pretty sobering summary of the state of modern politicians vs the politicians of previous generations.

[119]

turbobloke said:

BigMon said:

Gecko1978 said:

Just like with Zed sooner ot later I agree with Stewie thr conservatives are going to loose not because labour are better but because they the torys destroyed themselves

Exactly. Sunak is in the somewhat unique position of captaining the Titanic whilst having a map of the icebergs and aiming for every single one of them.

As a result, it's looking like Labour have a good chance of getting a super-majority not through competence but through the public being absolutely sick to death of the incumbents while Sunak runs possibly the worst election campaign ever.

The truth is, apart from the hard left Eeyoring cobblers on here, Labour have pretty much had a free pass during this campaign, and the press spotlight has not been shone on them or their policies really as Sunak is too busy gesticulating to the press at the open goal he is presenting.

So apart from one or two soundbites, and the VAT on private schools headline, there hasn't been much said at all. There has certainly nothing being shown that would persuade me to vote for them.

Good summary.

Yep!