Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party? (Vol. 2)
Discussion
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hstewie said:
hstewie said:Wombat3 said:
Starmer will say whatever he thinks he needs to say in order to get elected.
Based on what you've said, It appears to be working.
While all politicians do that to an extent, he is an outlier with the extent to which he is (very obviously) doing it.
The reality is we are still none the wiser as to what he actually thinks, believes in or indeed what he will really do in office.
It would no surprise in 2 or 3 years time to see people looking back on this time & describing him as having been utterly mendacious, but we will have to wait & see.
Johnson then Truss then Sunak.Based on what you've said, It appears to be working.
While all politicians do that to an extent, he is an outlier with the extent to which he is (very obviously) doing it.
The reality is we are still none the wiser as to what he actually thinks, believes in or indeed what he will really do in office.
It would no surprise in 2 or 3 years time to see people looking back on this time & describing him as having been utterly mendacious, but we will have to wait & see.
A Government as crooked as scoliosis which started with a man who couldn't lie straight in bed and ended with him being forced to resign in disgrace followed by the membership deciding the solution was Truss who made markets puke and after 44 days was replaced by Sunak.
But Starmer is apparently the "outlier" simply by appearing to be vaguely normal.
What absolute Jackanory.
These were yesterday's Men/Women & are not relevant to what comes next
This thread is about what's going on today / tomorrow and Starmer.
Do you believe everything he's ever said?
Do you really see no inconsistency and nothing concerning about the flip-floppng and the myriad of contrary positions he's taken over the years?
I don't believe everything he's ever said and there's plenty of inconsistency.
But I don't think he's a pathological liar or a nutjob or an apologist for the nutter wing of his party.
Rather than complaining that what I said is "whataboutery" perhaps ask yourself whether you'd be spending the next five years complaining about Starmer if this lot hadn't behaved the way they chose to.
The whole point here is that I don't think people are clamouring for a Starmer Government but it's gone beyond policy it's about behaviour and not being disgusted by the people who govern you.
They won't elect or re-relect another openly crooked lot.
If you approach it with an open mind I think this is quite a good interview.
‘You asked me questions I’ve never asked myself’: Keir Starmer’s most personal interview yet
But I don't think he's a pathological liar or a nutjob or an apologist for the nutter wing of his party.
Rather than complaining that what I said is "whataboutery" perhaps ask yourself whether you'd be spending the next five years complaining about Starmer if this lot hadn't behaved the way they chose to.
The whole point here is that I don't think people are clamouring for a Starmer Government but it's gone beyond policy it's about behaviour and not being disgusted by the people who govern you.
They won't elect or re-relect another openly crooked lot.
If you approach it with an open mind I think this is quite a good interview.
‘You asked me questions I’ve never asked myself’: Keir Starmer’s most personal interview yet
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I don't believe everything he's ever said and there's plenty of inconsistency.
But I don't think he's a pathological liar or a nutjob or an apologist for the nutter wing of his party.
The whole point here is that I don't think people are clamouring for a Starmer Government but it's gone beyond policy it's about behaviour and not being disgusted by the people who govern you.
They won't elect or re-relect another openly crooked lot.
If you approach it with an open mind I think this is quite a good interview.
I agree, I'm a traditional conseravative voter, and although I think Sunak is trying to do a good job the last 4yrs have really put me of them (the latest betting scandal is ther final nail in the coffin), I'm considering voting labour.But I don't think he's a pathological liar or a nutjob or an apologist for the nutter wing of his party.
The whole point here is that I don't think people are clamouring for a Starmer Government but it's gone beyond policy it's about behaviour and not being disgusted by the people who govern you.
They won't elect or re-relect another openly crooked lot.
If you approach it with an open mind I think this is quite a good interview.
My worry is if Stammer does get in with a huge majority will he be able to control the hard left of his party which will no doubt beomce emboldenbed by the victory.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I don't believe everything he's ever said and there's plenty of inconsistency.
But I don't think he's a pathological liar or a nutjob or an apologist for the nutter wing of his party.
Rather than complaining that what I said is "whataboutery" perhaps ask yourself whether you'd be spending the next five years complaining about Starmer if this lot hadn't behaved the way they chose to.
The whole point here is that I don't think people are clamouring for a Starmer Government but it's gone beyond policy it's about behaviour and not being disgusted by the people who govern you.
They won't elect or re-relect another openly crooked lot.
If you approach it with an open mind I think this is quite a good interview.
‘You asked me questions I’ve never asked myself’: Keir Starmer’s most personal interview yet
He's too smart to have said much that would enable you to label him a "pathalogical liar" but he is selling Snake Oil.But I don't think he's a pathological liar or a nutjob or an apologist for the nutter wing of his party.
Rather than complaining that what I said is "whataboutery" perhaps ask yourself whether you'd be spending the next five years complaining about Starmer if this lot hadn't behaved the way they chose to.
The whole point here is that I don't think people are clamouring for a Starmer Government but it's gone beyond policy it's about behaviour and not being disgusted by the people who govern you.
They won't elect or re-relect another openly crooked lot.
If you approach it with an open mind I think this is quite a good interview.
‘You asked me questions I’ve never asked myself’: Keir Starmer’s most personal interview yet
His declarations about income tax & NI etc are just a complete and obvious mugging-off. Its quite obvious that what hes not saying is far more important than what he is saying.
His constant flip-flopping also means I see little reason to believe much of anything he says and I also think there are clear signs of the idealogical left at work both with him and his party.
His declaration that he would never use private healthcare was really quite stark and unequivocal in the dogmatic nature of his thinking. His policy re VAT on private school fees is nothing but ill thought through dogma driven & idealogical nonsense which will have clear and obvious negative side effects.
I think this is likely to be one of the most left wing governments we have had in the UK for generations. I also think they will do significant damage precisely because of the dogmatic nature of their thinking. Such damage is usually very, very long lasting.
The sad thing is that for all that, as always, it will be the least well off who will actually suffer the most in the long run.
Overall, I think he is likely to be very bad news indeed.
Didn't read or think about a word I said did you?
I'd be amazed if most people have read the manifesto or looked beyond (or even at) the headlines or could tell you a single policy.
They just know this lot are bent and they want them gone.
That's why there is an exorcism predicted on July 4th.
You'll have five years but don't overthink it.
I'd be amazed if most people have read the manifesto or looked beyond (or even at) the headlines or could tell you a single policy.
They just know this lot are bent and they want them gone.
That's why there is an exorcism predicted on July 4th.
You'll have five years but don't overthink it.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Didn't read or think about a word I said did you?
I'd be amazed if most people have read the manifesto or looked beyond (or even at) the headlines or could tell you a single policy.
They just know this lot are bent and they want them gone.
That's why there is an exorcism predicted on July 4th.
You'll have five years but don't overthink it.
I read every word of what you said.. I'd be amazed if most people have read the manifesto or looked beyond (or even at) the headlines or could tell you a single policy.
They just know this lot are bent and they want them gone.
That's why there is an exorcism predicted on July 4th.
You'll have five years but don't overthink it.
Iv'e also read a good part of the manifesto and again it seems consistently conspicuous by what it doesn't say rather than what it does
If you boil it down it says growth will solve everything - but there is not a scintilla of information as to how that will be achieved.
I've also watched and listened to what Starmer has had to say ever since he became LOTO & I'll stand by what I said about him too.
Unfortunately I think that you (like a lot of people) are far too intent on looking backwards instead of where you should be looking, which is forwards
YMMV.
Wombat3 said:
biggbn said:
Wombat3 said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Starmer has grown on me and simply seems to "get it" more than Sunak does.
Starmer will say whatever he thinks he needs to say in order to get elected. Based on what you've said, It appears to be working.
While all politicians do that to an extent, he is an outlier with the extent to which he is (very obviously) doing it.
The reality is we are still none the wiser as to what he actually thinks, believes in or indeed what he will really do in office.
It would no surprise in 2 or 3 years time to see people looking back on this time & describing him as having been utterly mendacious, but we will have to wait & see.
t is no reason to get all giddy about electing someone who appears to be the absolute personification of a "shopping trolley" !Working people being those with no savings.....this tells you all you need to know.
The ideal for labour would be that everyone is taxed to the hilt, and then the government distributes everything as they see fit.
For landlords it will be hell.
Properties will have to be sold with sitting life time tenants as section 21 abolished.
Landlords paying tenants council tax will cause yields to fall and therefore prices of rental property.
This is what's waiting for the 'good landlords' they want to keep'.
The ideal for labour would be that everyone is taxed to the hilt, and then the government distributes everything as they see fit.
For landlords it will be hell.
Properties will have to be sold with sitting life time tenants as section 21 abolished.
Landlords paying tenants council tax will cause yields to fall and therefore prices of rental property.
This is what's waiting for the 'good landlords' they want to keep'.
The problem is simply this
Starmer has told us nothing, he has given us zero details other than
“My Labour Government will…(insert whatever vague promise to the future you like) ..”
If he does have a position on something it’s almost guaranteed he will change it 30 minutes later
What was really telling was the interview on local TV about the refugee barge when he point blank ignored the (repeated) question and didn’t answer what was a simple one to give
A) yes we’ll keep the barge
B) no we will get rid of the barge
c) I’m happy/not happy about it and we will review refugee accommodation as soon as we are in power and in possession of the full facts
It’s not hard it really isn’t
It’s simply that no one knows what he stands for
He can, as in the picture above, have a new haircut, designer glasses and trendy clothes but he still comes across as slippery as a snake
It does not inspire any confidence at all that he is the right man for the job
Starmer has told us nothing, he has given us zero details other than
“My Labour Government will…(insert whatever vague promise to the future you like) ..”
If he does have a position on something it’s almost guaranteed he will change it 30 minutes later
What was really telling was the interview on local TV about the refugee barge when he point blank ignored the (repeated) question and didn’t answer what was a simple one to give
A) yes we’ll keep the barge
B) no we will get rid of the barge
c) I’m happy/not happy about it and we will review refugee accommodation as soon as we are in power and in possession of the full facts
It’s not hard it really isn’t
It’s simply that no one knows what he stands for
He can, as in the picture above, have a new haircut, designer glasses and trendy clothes but he still comes across as slippery as a snake
It does not inspire any confidence at all that he is the right man for the job
I always go back to the title of the thread. He can and has.
The conservative party has been transformed. It's gone from being a viable political party to a desperate mix of dispirited folk.
No one believes now the Conservative Party can win. Least of all the Conservative Party
They are not even bothering in some constituencies.
It's over finished
The conservative party has been transformed. It's gone from being a viable political party to a desperate mix of dispirited folk.
No one believes now the Conservative Party can win. Least of all the Conservative Party
They are not even bothering in some constituencies.
It's over finished
Earthdweller said:
The problem is simply this
Starmer has told us nothing, he has given us zero details other than
“My Labour Government will…(insert whatever vague promise to the future you like) ..”
If he does have a position on something it’s almost guaranteed he will change it 30 minutes later
What was really telling was the interview on local TV about the refugee barge when he point blank ignored the (repeated) question and didn’t answer what was a simple one to give
A) yes we’ll keep the barge
B) no we will get rid of the barge
c) I’m happy/not happy about it and we will review refugee accommodation as soon as we are in power and in possession of the full facts
It’s not hard it really isn’t
It’s simply that no one knows what he stands for
He can, as in the picture above, have a new haircut, designer glasses and trendy clothes but he still comes across as slippery as a snake
It does not inspire any confidence at all that he is the right man for the job
This one (can’t be another one,surely Starmer has told us nothing, he has given us zero details other than
“My Labour Government will…(insert whatever vague promise to the future you like) ..”
If he does have a position on something it’s almost guaranteed he will change it 30 minutes later
What was really telling was the interview on local TV about the refugee barge when he point blank ignored the (repeated) question and didn’t answer what was a simple one to give
A) yes we’ll keep the barge
B) no we will get rid of the barge
c) I’m happy/not happy about it and we will review refugee accommodation as soon as we are in power and in possession of the full facts
It’s not hard it really isn’t
It’s simply that no one knows what he stands for
He can, as in the picture above, have a new haircut, designer glasses and trendy clothes but he still comes across as slippery as a snake
It does not inspire any confidence at all that he is the right man for the job
)https://x.com/addicted2newz/status/180380795244631...
don'tbesilly said:
It's the same thing with his response to prison overcrowding. He says "build more prisons" which will increase capacity but he won't say what he'll do in the months and years before construction is finished.Loving the latest wheeze from Labour on making rental bidding wars illegal. The bright idea is that if a landlord advertises a property for let's say a rental price of £1500 per month they cannot accept any offer above that.
Now, even the most challenged amongst us can see what will happen. Any landlord with a brain will just put his property up for £2000ono after all if he does not get offered that he can always take a lower price. End result is a large jump in rental prices.
With this kind of thinking it is going to be a long 5 years.
Now, even the most challenged amongst us can see what will happen. Any landlord with a brain will just put his property up for £2000ono after all if he does not get offered that he can always take a lower price. End result is a large jump in rental prices.
With this kind of thinking it is going to be a long 5 years.
Vanden Saab said:
Loving the latest wheeze from Labour on making rental bidding wars illegal. The bright idea is that if a landlord advertises a property for let's say a rental price of £1500 per month they cannot accept any offer above that.
Now, even the most challenged amongst us can see what will happen. Any landlord with a brain will just put his property up for £2000ono after all if he does not get offered that he can always take a lower price. End result is a large jump in rental prices.
With this kind of thinking it is going to be a long 5 years.
I know. It's terrible that the landlords will have to reduce their prices.Now, even the most challenged amongst us can see what will happen. Any landlord with a brain will just put his property up for £2000ono after all if he does not get offered that he can always take a lower price. End result is a large jump in rental prices.
With this kind of thinking it is going to be a long 5 years.
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