45th President Of The United States, Donald Trump (Vol. 14)
Discussion
Blackpuddin said:
Byker28i said:
LF5335 said:
Byker28i said:
Quite significant penalties in NY, the loss of all his businesses, banned from doing business in NY (which is where all/most of his businesses are registered, the break up of trump org, and further protracted legal cases. Not to mention being shown up to be skint, not the billionaire he claims...
I was asking about the consequences of him breaching the gag order again. trump is definately trying to rile them up, provoke them for a reaction and he's not getting it, which is making him mad, hence the multiple rants.
I think LF is asking because nothing of any real consequence has happened despite numerous occasions where Trump has flouted the Judges orders, for example, whereas it has for others. Despite assurances from some on here with a far better understanding of the situation than I possess that it's all fair and it will take time and etc.
I don't doubt it will take time and expected nothing more from the US political and legal establishment as many have been shown to be partisan self serving horrors but it's a bit explicit that he's getting preferential treatment to say the least.
I do expect that the NY trial will be an eye opener when the ruling / fine is made but it will be interesting to see how long he can kick it down the road with further frivolous appeals.
I don't doubt it will take time and expected nothing more from the US political and legal establishment as many have been shown to be partisan self serving horrors but it's a bit explicit that he's getting preferential treatment to say the least.
I do expect that the NY trial will be an eye opener when the ruling / fine is made but it will be interesting to see how long he can kick it down the road with further frivolous appeals.
Be interesting to see where team trumps motion for a mistrial goes,
https://eddsa.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/public/4...
because it specifically goes after Judge Engoron's principal law clerk, it has her name, her picture, lists her campaign contribution history. Basically it's another attempt at intimidation, identifying the law clerk to trumps cult and they filed it publicly, which is exactly what Engoran told them not to do.
Not for the first time, Alina Habba signed something she couldn't keep to. Engoran asked trump’s team to submit their proposed order and motion directly to his chambers, instead they filed publicly thus breaking the gag order,, again.
Once again, the strategy seems to be to push trumps grievances in as public a manner as possible, try to provoke the judge, get sanctioned and then play victim.
https://eddsa.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/public/4...
because it specifically goes after Judge Engoron's principal law clerk, it has her name, her picture, lists her campaign contribution history. Basically it's another attempt at intimidation, identifying the law clerk to trumps cult and they filed it publicly, which is exactly what Engoran told them not to do.
Not for the first time, Alina Habba signed something she couldn't keep to. Engoran asked trump’s team to submit their proposed order and motion directly to his chambers, instead they filed publicly thus breaking the gag order,, again.
Once again, the strategy seems to be to push trumps grievances in as public a manner as possible, try to provoke the judge, get sanctioned and then play victim.
Edited by Byker28i on Thursday 16th November 08:29
Is this some sort of parallel universe?
"The case against the former president lacks victims, so Tish James and Arthur Engoron are inventing some…. Engoron keeps cutting Trump and his lawyers off by insisting that he has already decided Trump (a) committed fraud, (b) overvalued his assets, and (c) cannot be insulated by the disclaimer in his SFCs".
That's what happens when you state that you don't want a jury trial!
"The case against the former president lacks victims, so Tish James and Arthur Engoron are inventing some…. Engoron keeps cutting Trump and his lawyers off by insisting that he has already decided Trump (a) committed fraud, (b) overvalued his assets, and (c) cannot be insulated by the disclaimer in his SFCs".
That's what happens when you state that you don't want a jury trial!
barryrs said:
Is this some sort of parallel universe?
"The case against the former president lacks victims, so Tish James and Arthur Engoron are inventing some…. Engoron keeps cutting Trump and his lawyers off by insisting that he has already decided Trump (a) committed fraud, (b) overvalued his assets, and (c) cannot be insulated by the disclaimer in his SFCs".
That's what happens when you state that you don't want a jury trial!
trump and his lawyers know they've lost so went into the case playing for the court of maga opinion, not legal defence"The case against the former president lacks victims, so Tish James and Arthur Engoron are inventing some…. Engoron keeps cutting Trump and his lawyers off by insisting that he has already decided Trump (a) committed fraud, (b) overvalued his assets, and (c) cannot be insulated by the disclaimer in his SFCs".
That's what happens when you state that you don't want a jury trial!
I don’t generally comment on this thread but have been an avid reader since I can’t remember when.
Whilst I hugely appreciate both Byker’s reporting efforts and cgt’s unwavering belief that Trump won’t even be the GOP nominee let alone win the election, I think I understand LF’s point of view in that, like me, it is simply borne out of a sense of sheer frustration that Trump appears to be treated differently to almost anyone else and that he can seemingly pretty much ignore anything he is told (or told not) to do, without much in the way of retribution.
I know that the wheels of justice turn slowly and that the prosecutors, across all the cases, need to make completely sure that all the i’s are dotted and all the t’s are crossed but by crikey, sometimes you just wish that they would make a bit of a statement action!
I can’t stand the way that he and his team ‘play the system’ but equally, I’d probably try to kick as much down the road as I possibly could in order to delay any negative judgements as well - his liberty, not to mention his (rapidly diminishing) reputation is at stake and he is getting desperate.
I know that cgt may well shout at me for the above
and tell me to read the judgements and court filings etc. but the simple fact of the matter is that I don’t think I’d understand them even if I did, hence why I rely on this thread to get a sense of what is actually going on.
TLDR; thanks for everything Byker & cgt but I still have a feeling of unease about the next 12 months.
Edit - I have a history of backing the wrong horse (see Simple Minds vs U2, Blur vs Oasis and West Ham vs most teams, so he will probably be in prison by Christmas
Whilst I hugely appreciate both Byker’s reporting efforts and cgt’s unwavering belief that Trump won’t even be the GOP nominee let alone win the election, I think I understand LF’s point of view in that, like me, it is simply borne out of a sense of sheer frustration that Trump appears to be treated differently to almost anyone else and that he can seemingly pretty much ignore anything he is told (or told not) to do, without much in the way of retribution.
I know that the wheels of justice turn slowly and that the prosecutors, across all the cases, need to make completely sure that all the i’s are dotted and all the t’s are crossed but by crikey, sometimes you just wish that they would make a bit of a statement action!
I can’t stand the way that he and his team ‘play the system’ but equally, I’d probably try to kick as much down the road as I possibly could in order to delay any negative judgements as well - his liberty, not to mention his (rapidly diminishing) reputation is at stake and he is getting desperate.
I know that cgt may well shout at me for the above
and tell me to read the judgements and court filings etc. but the simple fact of the matter is that I don’t think I’d understand them even if I did, hence why I rely on this thread to get a sense of what is actually going on. TLDR; thanks for everything Byker & cgt but I still have a feeling of unease about the next 12 months.
Edit - I have a history of backing the wrong horse (see Simple Minds vs U2, Blur vs Oasis and West Ham vs most teams, so he will probably be in prison by Christmas
Edited by Fifty on Thursday 16th November 10:04
Great analogy.%2Farc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-expressandstar-mna.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2FATO5B5UUHFFEZKBOO3RKTDN3JQ&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=e4de149e03a2625343750e6fa850be8d2ea99e557dba311ebd67276c007f2946&ipo=images)
Colorado 14th amendment case against trump is coming to a close.
Sean Grimsley, an attorney for the plaintiffs, called the insurrection clause “one of the few self-defense mechanisms (the Constitution) has,” and said its enforcement was essential to upholding the rule of law.
“We are here because for the first time in our nation’s history, the president of the United States engaged in insurrection against the Constitution, He spearheaded a multifaceted scheme to stay in power by any means necessary, the scheme culminating in a violent attack on the Capitol on Jan. 6 during the constitutionally-mandated counting of electoral votes.”
They've also made the point that none of trumps defence has been about disputing the allegations of his actions, rather that it's just a political ploy by his enemies to keep him out the running.
Judge Sarah B. Wallace is expected to issue a ruling on the case by the end of this week
https://www.rawstory.com/trump-colorado-2666285897...
Sean Grimsley, an attorney for the plaintiffs, called the insurrection clause “one of the few self-defense mechanisms (the Constitution) has,” and said its enforcement was essential to upholding the rule of law.
“We are here because for the first time in our nation’s history, the president of the United States engaged in insurrection against the Constitution, He spearheaded a multifaceted scheme to stay in power by any means necessary, the scheme culminating in a violent attack on the Capitol on Jan. 6 during the constitutionally-mandated counting of electoral votes.”
They've also made the point that none of trumps defence has been about disputing the allegations of his actions, rather that it's just a political ploy by his enemies to keep him out the running.
Judge Sarah B. Wallace is expected to issue a ruling on the case by the end of this week
https://www.rawstory.com/trump-colorado-2666285897...
Got to love that the expert witnesses called by trumps defence in the fraud case are actually proving the fraud, as they try to claim trump knew nothing...
trumps expert, Jason Flemmings, revealed trump claimed to have access to $200 million in ready cash, but that cash was in a partnership account that trump didn't have authority to use.
Flemmons described numerous 'discrepancies' and 'inconsistencies, including claiming his penthouse was over three times bigger than it was, inflating values excessively because of 'the trump brand'
His own expert ripped the finances apart as fraudulent.
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gets-beat-up...
https://abcnews.go.com/US/live-updates/trump-fraud...
trumps expert, Jason Flemmings, revealed trump claimed to have access to $200 million in ready cash, but that cash was in a partnership account that trump didn't have authority to use.
Flemmons described numerous 'discrepancies' and 'inconsistencies, including claiming his penthouse was over three times bigger than it was, inflating values excessively because of 'the trump brand'
His own expert ripped the finances apart as fraudulent.
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gets-beat-up...
https://abcnews.go.com/US/live-updates/trump-fraud...
Byker28i said:
Be interesting to see where team trumps motion for a mistrial goes,
https://eddsa.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/public/4...
because it specifically goes after Judge Engoron's principal law clerk, it has her name, her picture, lists her campaign contribution history. Basically it's another attempt at intimidation, identifying the law clerk to trumps cult and they filed it publicly, which is exactly what Engoran told them not to do.
Not for the first time, Alina Habba signed something she couldn't keep to. Engoran asked trump’s team to submit their proposed order and motion directly to his chambers, instead they filed publicly thus breaking the gag order,, again.
Once again, the strategy seems to be to push trumps grievances in as public a manner as possible, try to provoke the judge, get sanctioned and then play victim.
I, for once, read quite a lot of that and from what I can see, and I've no way of know what is or isn't actually allowed, Trump's upset because the Judge is consulting regularly with the unelected law clerk WHO IS SITTING ON THE BENCH!!!!! on HIS ACTUAL RIGHT HAND SIDE!!! who is a Democrat and who has posted something about the trial on instagram (which I would find unlikely that she would post something that she knew to not be permissible however as I said I don't know) and that Trump isn't allowed to say anything about the trial. She's biased and unelected ergo unfair trial.https://eddsa.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/public/4...
because it specifically goes after Judge Engoron's principal law clerk, it has her name, her picture, lists her campaign contribution history. Basically it's another attempt at intimidation, identifying the law clerk to trumps cult and they filed it publicly, which is exactly what Engoran told them not to do.
Not for the first time, Alina Habba signed something she couldn't keep to. Engoran asked trump’s team to submit their proposed order and motion directly to his chambers, instead they filed publicly thus breaking the gag order,, again.
Once again, the strategy seems to be to push trumps grievances in as public a manner as possible, try to provoke the judge, get sanctioned and then play victim.
Edited by Byker28i on Thursday 16th November 08:29
Is that about it? / are their comments in any way reasonable regarding the Clerk's involvement / posting?
I keep reading that Trump & Co have already been found guilty and that this trial is to ascertain the punishment so a mistrial would presumably not change the guilty ruling but would necessitate a further trial to go over it again. Have I got that right?
Thanks in advance.
Byker28i said:
After Jack Smith files about trumps gagging order, again quoting Thomas a Beckett and the request to rid of the troublesome priest, trump then posts on TS
"someone 'high up' should fire Letitia Peekaboo James, Fani Willis, Alvin Bragg and, of course, Deranged Jack Smith, They are KILLING our Country!"
Am I reading too much into that TS post, the emphasis on 'killing'?"someone 'high up' should fire Letitia Peekaboo James, Fani Willis, Alvin Bragg and, of course, Deranged Jack Smith, They are KILLING our Country!"
Well, last year trump org was found guilty of 17 counts of tax fraud, but the max fine was only $1.6m
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/06/politics/trump-...
In the current fraud trial, the Judge in a pretrial ruling as requested by the prosecution found trump org guilty on the first count and sanctioned the lawyers.Judge Engoron, ruled even before the trial started that trump and the other defendants were liable for fraud, and that their annual financial statements were filled with examples of such misconduct. The evidence was overwhelming, vastly overvaluing magalago, size of his apartment, the height of trump tower, 40 wall street, Doral, many, many properties and many examples.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/judge-finds-trump-li...
As well as resolving the size of the fine he has to pay, there are also other charges he's facing in this trial. His lawyers though are just putting over trumps grievances rather than trying to defend him.
If you want a bit of reading, they are trying to track all of trumps cases here
https://www.justsecurity.org/75032/litigation-trac...
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/06/politics/trump-...
In the current fraud trial, the Judge in a pretrial ruling as requested by the prosecution found trump org guilty on the first count and sanctioned the lawyers.Judge Engoron, ruled even before the trial started that trump and the other defendants were liable for fraud, and that their annual financial statements were filled with examples of such misconduct. The evidence was overwhelming, vastly overvaluing magalago, size of his apartment, the height of trump tower, 40 wall street, Doral, many, many properties and many examples.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/judge-finds-trump-li...
As well as resolving the size of the fine he has to pay, there are also other charges he's facing in this trial. His lawyers though are just putting over trumps grievances rather than trying to defend him.
If you want a bit of reading, they are trying to track all of trumps cases here
https://www.justsecurity.org/75032/litigation-trac...
shakotan said:
Byker28i said:
After Jack Smith files about trumps gagging order, again quoting Thomas a Beckett and the request to rid of the troublesome priest, trump then posts on TS
"someone 'high up' should fire Letitia Peekaboo James, Fani Willis, Alvin Bragg and, of course, Deranged Jack Smith, They are KILLING our Country!"
Am I reading too much into that TS post, the emphasis on 'killing'?"someone 'high up' should fire Letitia Peekaboo James, Fani Willis, Alvin Bragg and, of course, Deranged Jack Smith, They are KILLING our Country!"
Byker28i said:
Well, last year trump org was found guilty of 17 counts of tax fraud, but the max fine was only $1.6m
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/06/politics/trump-...
In the current fraud trial, the Judge in a pretrial ruling as requested by the prosecution found trump org guilty on the first count and sanctioned the lawyers.Judge Engoron, ruled even before the trial started that trump and the other defendants were liable for fraud, and that their annual financial statements were filled with examples of such misconduct. The evidence was overwhelming, vastly overvaluing magalago, size of his apartment, the height of trump tower, 40 wall street, Doral, many, many properties and many examples.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/judge-finds-trump-li...
As well as resolving the size of the fine he has to pay, there are also other charges he's facing in this trial. His lawyers though are just putting over trumps grievances rather than trying to defend him.
If you want a bit of reading, they are trying to track all of trumps cases here
https://www.justsecurity.org/75032/litigation-trac...
Ah okay, so he's declared them guilty / liable but the detail of what exactly it is, is what is being established. Thanks.https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/06/politics/trump-...
In the current fraud trial, the Judge in a pretrial ruling as requested by the prosecution found trump org guilty on the first count and sanctioned the lawyers.Judge Engoron, ruled even before the trial started that trump and the other defendants were liable for fraud, and that their annual financial statements were filled with examples of such misconduct. The evidence was overwhelming, vastly overvaluing magalago, size of his apartment, the height of trump tower, 40 wall street, Doral, many, many properties and many examples.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/judge-finds-trump-li...
As well as resolving the size of the fine he has to pay, there are also other charges he's facing in this trial. His lawyers though are just putting over trumps grievances rather than trying to defend him.
If you want a bit of reading, they are trying to track all of trumps cases here
https://www.justsecurity.org/75032/litigation-trac...
I'll have a look.
Thanks again.
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