Climate change - the POLITICAL debate (Vol 7)

[FiF]

I've avoided all the climate threads for a long time for numerous reasons but saw something on twitter and I just didn't realise this was a thing.

https://twitter.com/joannafidalgo/status/145446705...

Essentially dry ice blasting. Cleaning stuff with pellets of dry ice, frozen CO2.

What now?

It's claimed only uses reclaimed CO2 so environmentally friendly. Sorry realise it involves cleaning such as car engine bays so completely uninteresting to some.

[The Don of Croy]

Apparently Joe Biden is travelling with a motorcade of 80+ vehicles.

First to Rome, then Glasgow. Great if you’re a plain spotter (huge military transports) but slightly less easy to justify if we’re serious about emissions, no?

Ho hum.

[johnboy1975]

The Don of Croy said:

Apparently Joe Biden is travelling with a motorcade of 80+ vehicles.

First to Rome, then Glasgow. Great if you’re a plain spotter (huge military transports) but slightly less easy to justify if we’re serious about emissions, no?

Ho hum.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10144513/Biden-uses-massive-85-car-motorcade-wind-streets-Rome.html

Ho hum indeed. Motorcade made longer by Italian covid rules

[Square Leg]

Of course, there was no wind nor did any trees ever get damaged by them before the climate started to change…

https://twitter.com/jonsnowC4/status/1454866393279...

[turbobloke]

The Don of Croy said:

Apparently Joe Biden is travelling with a motorcade of 80+ vehicles.

First to Rome, then Glasgow. Great if you’re a plain spotter (huge military transports) but slightly less easy to justify if we’re serious about emissions, no?

Ho hum.

Terrific, Zil Lanes in Glasgow?

A week (or two) is a long time in politics...

Biden team asks oil industry for help to tame gas prices

Link said:

The latest outreach to the oil industry is an awkward shift for the Biden administration, which has pledged to move the country away from fossil fuels...The Biden administration has requested OPEC increase its exports

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/13/white-house-biden-gas-prices-515957

[turbobloke]

There are reports that Russian pipeline gas-flow stopped then started flowing backwards, taking fuel out of Germany. Seems incredible, but if so, Putin (already awol from COP26) is making bigger fools of Merkel, Boris and Joe than previously thought possible.

[ExecutiveAction]

The Don of Croy said:

Apparently Joe Biden is travelling with a motorcade of 80+ vehicles.

First to Rome, then Glasgow. Great if you’re a plain spotter (huge military transports) but slightly less easy to justify if we’re serious about emissions, no?

Ho hum.

Maybe he is expecting a welcome like they got in Sicario?

Seriously, I’m living in Glasgow and apart from the inevitable road closures we are now seeing all the high end eco-Nazis wandering round with their home knitted hats and pony tails jaywalking and frowning at car drivers like they shouldn’t be there.

I’m not an EV enthusiast at all, as some have found, and it’s partly this. To me it’s like a creeping fascism. First, if I can misquote Bonhoeffer, they are coming for our cars, then for our log burning stoves. Then they are going to stop us eating meat, and drinking milk. Then they are going to stop us flying. Then they are going to stop us travelling at all. Then, having destroyed the most successful economy Britain has ever enjoyed, they are going to take away our jobs. Then we will have our own ‘Cultural Revolution’ to wipe out the unbelievers. Then we are going to find ourselves back in the Middle Ages. Apocalyptic you may well say, but I think it is coming, like Mao or Hitler or Lenin, and for that reason, it is very important to stand up against things you believe to be wrong, not to be passive about it and let it happen.

I can see this country like that in 20 years time, along with the whole of Northern Europe, and possibly the USA, and all I can say is I plan to be well out of it.

[jurbie]

It'll never come to that simply because it's now free market capitalism that is driving this. I work for a management consultancy, the sort of place most of the eco types would love to chuck paint over the doors of. Our CEO has stated in one of his regular addresses to the company that net zero is the most exciting opportunity of his life. We're planning on making a fat load of cash out of it and if anyone thinks all of us earning that cash aren't going to blow it on fancy cars, big houses and expensive holidays then they'll be in for a big surprise.

We're just one small part of the economy, I imagine all manner of sectors are getting geared up for this and it'll be a big change to the country with winners and losers but the biggest losers will be everyone who was rubbing their hands at the prospect of the Marxist revolution they thought it would usher in.

[julian987R]

enough said.

[johnboy1975]

Briton's willing to pay £5 a week to curb climate change

I'm in

(I'll stretch to a tenner if it includes a brand new electric car and a full house cladding / insulation retrofit to make warm).

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10146089/...

[Randy Winkman]

jurbie said:

It'll never come to that simply because it's now free market capitalism that is driving this. I work for a management consultancy, the sort of place most of the eco types would love to chuck paint over the doors of. Our CEO has stated in one of his regular addresses to the company that net zero is the most exciting opportunity of his life. We're planning on making a fat load of cash out of it and if anyone thinks all of us earning that cash aren't going to blow it on fancy cars, big houses and expensive holidays then they'll be in for a big surprise.

We're just one small part of the economy, I imagine all manner of sectors are getting geared up for this and it'll be a big change to the country with winners and losers but the biggest losers will be everyone who was rubbing their hands at the prospect of the Marxist revolution they thought it would usher in.

I agree with you (and Arnie a few days ago) that there is plenty of money to be made from Net-Zero. Companies will just make money doing different things.

I also agree your point about how we spend the money. Individuals spending money just doesn't match Net-Zero aims because spending money is nearly always about using resources.

However, I'm not convinced there's much of a Marxist element to this. I'd say that the vast majority of people concerned about climate change want nothing to do with Marxism. That being the case, the trouble is how we match what Boris has just told us "the people want" with them continuing to spend their money.

[turbobloke]

The Climate Summit to Nowhere
The Wall Street Journal, 30 October 2021
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-climate-summit-to...

Link said:

World leaders converge on Glasgow for a climate summit this weekend, and don’t laugh. This may be the worst-timed summit in history, but the delegates can still do substantial damage to the global economy, though none of it will matter to the climate. It’s incongruous bordering on the bizarre to organize a summit like this while Europe is battening down for a winter fuel crisis, President Biden is begging OPEC to produce more oil, China is firing up its coal-fueled power plants amid an electricity shortage, and climate-change plans wilt as soon as they’re exposed to the sunlight of democratic politics.

US Supreme Court takes up climate challenge in pre-COP26 jolt to Biden
Bloomberg, 29 October 2021
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-29...

Link said:

The U.S. Supreme Court will consider limiting the Environmental Protection Agency’s authority to curb greenhouse gases from power plants, agreeing to hear appeals from coal-mining companies and Republican-led states.

The appeals seek to prevent President Joe Biden’s administration from imposing the type of sweeping emissions rules the EPA tried to put in place when fellow Democrat Barack Obama was president. The Supreme Court put Obama’s Clean Power Plan on hold in February 2016, and it never took effect.

The road to Glasgow is paved with bad assumptions
The Hill, 28 October 2021
https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/578...

Link said:

It can be difficult to separate our biases and beliefs from science and economics. But separate we must, lest a climate-based roadmap lose its energy-reality way, hurting the very people it was intended to protect.

[Puggit]

As they all arrive in their planes to lecture us, and no doubt increase our taxes, it's worth pointing out that wind is currently providing 12.5GW out of 30.36GW currently being used in the UK (41%).

Remind me what the others are all doing?

https://twitter.com/UK_WindEnergy/status/145508273...

[turbobloke]

Puggit said:

As they all arrive in their planes to lecture us, and no doubt increase our taxes, it's worth pointing out that wind is currently providing 12.5GW out of 30.36GW currently being used in the UK (41%).

Remind me what the others are all doing?

https://twitter.com/UK_WindEnergy/status/145508273...

Apt comment at the twittering: 'How many birds were massacred during the generating of 12.51GW?'

Bats too.

[SeeFive]

Just about to delete the climate alarmist app from all my devices. Oh sorry, it’s not, it is the BBC News app.

Talk about one sided propaganda.

[Puggit]

i removed the Sky News app many months ago now for similar reasons (plus what it thought was a news alert compared to what I think a news alert needs to be).

[durbster]

SeeFive said:

Talk about one sided propaganda.

What "side" is not being represented?

[Murph7355]

SeeFive said:

Just about to delete the climate alarmist app from all my devices. Oh sorry, it’s not, it is the BBC News app.

Talk about one sided propaganda. ...

With something as big as COP26 going on, you'd expect the headlines to be full of it.

It will all just be words. Nothing material will come of it and no matter what happens the 1.5degC target will be spun to a degree that would make even Alistair Campbell dizzy.

johnboy1975 said:

Briton's willing to pay £5 a week to curb climate change

I'm in

(I'll stretch to a tenner if it includes a brand new electric car and a full house cladding / insulation retrofit to make warm).

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10146089/...

If it were only going to cost £5 we'd all be all in. Even China, the USA and Russia I suspect.

Those three know it will cost vastly more than that, though. Which is why they aren't playing in any material sense. Bearing in mind where the UK is right now, the lengths government are going to is stupid (and it doesn't seem to matter which government we could choose either).

[Brave Fart]

Murph7355 said:

If it were only going to cost £5 we'd all be all in. Even China, the USA and Russia I suspect.

Those three know it will cost vastly more than that, though. Which is why they aren't playing in any material sense. Bearing in mind where the UK is right now, the lengths government are going to is stupid (and it doesn't seem to matter which government we could choose either).

Exactly. All I've heard on MSM this morning is calls for "things to be done", or "action not words!" But actually, what people really want is a magic spell that will save the planet at zero cost to themselves. People that I know have no idea what Net Zero might mean for them in practice. They just think it's not rinsing your plates before putting them in the dishwasher, or some other daft idea from Allegra Stratton.

If the government was to say "OK then, we've decided to increase income tax, and VAT to 25%, and the price of fuel will rise to £5 per litre, all from tomorrow; it's all to pay for Net Zero, folks!", I suspect the demands for action would not be as loud.

The idea that COP26 will actually achieve anything material is highly optimistic, in my view. After all, what did the previous 25 COP's achieve?

[Kawasicki]

durbster said:

SeeFive said:

Talk about one sided propaganda.

What "side" is not being represented?

Preservation of natural habitat.