Elon Musk $41B offer for Twitter
Discussion
Gweeds said:
They're saying they don't want to sit and listen to it. More often than not because the speaker will have a history of hate speech, racism, anti-semitism....
So they're exercising their rights to freedom of expression no?
No they are not, they are saying “no one can listen to it”So they're exercising their rights to freedom of expression no?
These woke students could just not turn up (they are few not to attend), but what they actually do is stop anything being said to anyone. That’s not free speech. That’s censorship. It’s illiberal.
Bandit said:
robscot said:
His free speech is calling the Thai cave rescuer a 'pedo'.
(It is well worth watching The Rescue doc - think it is on Disney+ )
That accusation resulted in a criminal investigation (into the idiot that made the comment)(It is well worth watching The Rescue doc - think it is on Disney+ )
Bandit said:
No they are not, they are saying “no one can listen to it”
These woke students could just not turn up (they are few not to attend), but what they actually do is stop anything being said to anyone. That’s not free speech. That’s censorship. It’s illiberal.
No - they're saying that they don't want the institution they pay to attend to host it. The speaker is free to speak. Just not there. Censorship means it can't be said anywhere. These woke students could just not turn up (they are few not to attend), but what they actually do is stop anything being said to anyone. That’s not free speech. That’s censorship. It’s illiberal.
Tell me what you think 'woke' and 'illiberal' mean.
Bandit said:
Electro1980 said:
The amusing thing is that if Musk does what he says, shutting down bots and cleaning up the algorithms, it will make Twitter more left wing as the current issues with far right conspiracies and the like is weeded out.
Alternatively the algorithm may be doing the exact opposite of what you suggest and creating an echo chamber for like minded illiberals. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/03/22/tech/twitter-al...
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2021/07/07/we-...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/abrambrown/2022/03/15...
https://misinforeview.hks.harvard.edu/article/the-...
This is not exactly controversial stuff that Twitter (and Facebook) algorithms have resulted in far right conspiracies and hate speech being promoted.
Bandit said:
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: Quite.
There's often a pattern where people want the right to say whatever they want "because free speech" but when other people use their right to free speech to respond to it (legally) by pointing out that what they've said is actually pretty disgusting "you're cancelling me".
No Stewie, I’m perfectly happy with people responding to opinions and sharing their distaste with what was said. My issues is when someone is stopped from saying anything at all (to anyone) which is what is happening in our Universities. There's often a pattern where people want the right to say whatever they want "because free speech" but when other people use their right to free speech to respond to it (legally) by pointing out that what they've said is actually pretty disgusting "you're cancelling me".
That isn't intended to be a trick question.
If a university invited a holocaust denier to speak and the Jewish students of that university (and hopefully the rest) used their right to free speech to protest (peacefully and lawfully) and the university saw that and pulled the invitation what's wrong with that?
Have they been "stopped" or has the university simply listened and changed its position?
Bandit said:
No they are not, they are saying “no one can listen to it”
These woke students could just not turn up (they are few not to attend), but what they actually do is stop anything being said to anyone. That’s not free speech. That’s censorship. It’s illiberal.
So you want to stop people saying “we don’t want your message on our stage”?These woke students could just not turn up (they are few not to attend), but what they actually do is stop anything being said to anyone. That’s not free speech. That’s censorship. It’s illiberal.
Bandit said:
If the person said what they wanted to say then they had free speech: the fact that they might get thrown in jail afterwards doesn’t mean that free speech didn’t exist does it?
See you got there in the end.
Dear me. Free speech means just that. Free. From consequences. It. Doesn’t. Exist. See you got there in the end.
Your use of the words woke and illiberal tell us what you actually want.
By the way. Musk ain’t the free speech supporter when it doesn’t suit him:
https://popular.info/p/musk-is-a-free-speech-absol...
Bandit said:
Gweeds said:
So free speech doesn't exist. Got there in the end.
If the person said what they wanted to say then they had free speech: the fact that they might get thrown in jail afterwards doesn’t mean that free speech didn’t exist does it? See you got there in the end.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: What's your definition of "stopped" though?
That isn't intended to be a trick question.
If a university invited a holocaust denier to speak and the Jewish students of that university (and hopefully the rest) used their right to free speech to protest and the university saw that and pulled the invitation what's wrong with that?
Or how about we pick another example. Let’s say a comedian was invited to talk at a University and that comedian had previously made a Trans joke.That isn't intended to be a trick question.
If a university invited a holocaust denier to speak and the Jewish students of that university (and hopefully the rest) used their right to free speech to protest and the university saw that and pulled the invitation what's wrong with that?
Are you ok with a handful of students preventing/shouting down or cancelling that invitation?
Bandit said:
pquinn said:
Civil trial for damages, not a criminal investigation?
Consequences for the slur. Free speech with consequences. So far the guy lives in a consequence free environment, to the point that even now he's publicly arguing that a judge in a live trial against him is wrong and disputing things from his own email and phone record evidence.
Gweeds said:
No - they're saying that they don't want the institution they pay to attend to host it. The speaker is free to speak. Just not there. Censorship means it can't be said anywhere.
Tell me what you think 'woke' and 'illiberal' mean.
The students don’t own the University do they?Tell me what you think 'woke' and 'illiberal' mean.
You honestly don’t know what woke and illiberal mean? Ok buddy!
Bandit said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: What's your definition of "stopped" though?
That isn't intended to be a trick question.
If a university invited a holocaust denier to speak and the Jewish students of that university (and hopefully the rest) used their right to free speech to protest and the university saw that and pulled the invitation what's wrong with that?
Or how about we pick another example. Let’s say a comedian was invited to talk at a University and that comedian had previously made a Trans joke.That isn't intended to be a trick question.
If a university invited a holocaust denier to speak and the Jewish students of that university (and hopefully the rest) used their right to free speech to protest and the university saw that and pulled the invitation what's wrong with that?
Are you ok with a handful of students preventing/shouting down or cancelling that invitation?
If the university decides to listen to them and pulls the invitation that's their right too.
Now can we go back to my example which you didn't answer?
Bandit said:
Gweeds said:
No - they're saying that they don't want the institution they pay to attend to host it. The speaker is free to speak. Just not there. Censorship means it can't be said anywhere.
Tell me what you think 'woke' and 'illiberal' mean.
The students don’t own the University do they?Tell me what you think 'woke' and 'illiberal' mean.
You honestly don’t know what woke and illiberal mean? Ok buddy!
Bandit said:
Or how about we pick another example. Let’s say a comedian was invited to talk at a University and that comedian had previously made a Trans joke.
Are you ok with a handful of students preventing/shouting down or cancelling that invitation?
But they're exercising their freedom of expression no?Are you ok with a handful of students preventing/shouting down or cancelling that invitation?
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