Scrapping non dom status
Discussion
Rufus Stone said:
bennno said:
Oliver Hardy said:
PS Last year Rishi Sunak paid effective tax rate of 23% on £2.2m income, but he makes us all richer?.
This is part of the problem, in that example he’d of paid over £500k in tax, average worker £5k so he’s paid 100x contribution to society.Yet it’s sneered at.
Whilst almost 25% of the working age population aren’t working and are living off benefits.
That needs to be fixed.
bennno said:
Oliver Hardy said:
PS Last year Rishi Sunak paid effective tax rate of 23% on £2.2m income, but he makes us all richer?.
This is part of the problem, in that example he’d of paid over £500k in tax, average worker £5k so he’s paid 100x contribution to society.S600BSB said:
Rufus Stone said:
bennno said:
Oliver Hardy said:
PS Last year Rishi Sunak paid effective tax rate of 23% on £2.2m income, but he makes us all richer?.
This is part of the problem, in that example he’d of paid over £500k in tax, average worker £5k so he’s paid 100x contribution to society.Yet it’s sneered at.
Whilst almost 25% of the working age population aren’t working and are living off benefits.
That needs to be fixed.
My total tax rate with NI is 32%
Skeptisk said:
I am not sure what company you work for but when someone resigns (from a position that is needed) in all the ones I’ve worked in they get replaced. So why would the U.K. lose out?
It's not an elitist thing, the problem is just one of PAYE tax and statistical mathematics based on an upside down pyramid.The PAYE inverse pyramid is based on 250,000 to 300,000 legal professionals , consultant doctors , surgeons, senior engineers, architects and senior director, MD level business peeps earning 150-500k. Yes there are types earning millions on PAYE but they are a statistical anomaly.
Let's not be as childish to assume that retaining these people is easy or, in the case of professional services workers, not relocatable.
Oliver Hardy said:
This is true, but if I pay higher taxes than my neighbour for example, they are retired and in a lower council tax band, should I expect to be treated more favourably than they are?
Yes. You should get one vote for each pound of tax you pay. That would be properly democraticSkeptisk said:
OutInTheShed said:
Skeptisk said:
JagLover said:
They would be paying tax on their UK earnings so not sure that is a stronger argument to change the rules. As if they do decide to relocate we will lose not only the spending but the PAYE tax at higher rates as well.
I am not sure what company you work for but when someone resigns (from a position that is needed) in all the ones I’ve worked in they get replaced. So why would the U.K. lose out? How many people actually need to be in their UK office >183 days a year?
I only know a few individuals and a few companies.
As I see it, it's another negative factor for choosing whether to locate a business activity or role in the UK or elesewhere.
If someone has seriousincome from wealth held abroad, there will come a point where even a very well paid role in the UK won't be worth doing, because tax on their foreign wealth would exceed the nett income from the UK job.
There is a danger that the City loses critical mass in some sectors of finance, then you lose not only the non-doms but a lot of roles for mere mortals too.
I feel there is an element of hypocisy, because London/the UK does pretty well out of the rest of the World in some of these sectors.
I did some work for a mid-sized firm with main bases in England and India, and offices elsewhere around the World. Many of the top jobs were eminently relocatable, and the interesting work was already visibly drifting away from England. A lot of people spent time in more than one country, it would be easy for quite a few roles to be tax resident elsewhere.
I think there is a wider problem, WTF does the UK actually do to earn its keep from the rest of the World?
The rest of the World is getting better at doing a lot of that stuff itself.
OutInTheShed said:
I think there is a wider problem, WTF does the UK actually do to earn its keep from the rest of the World?
The rest of the World is getting better at doing a lot of that stuff itself.
And that's the story of our decades to come. The rest of the World is getting better at doing a lot of that stuff itself.
We can pootle along for quite some time riding on our own coattails but no one will have an answer for this, and the question will be asked with increasing urgency.
bloomen said:
OutInTheShed said:
I think there is a wider problem, WTF does the UK actually do to earn its keep from the rest of the World?
The rest of the World is getting better at doing a lot of that stuff itself.
And that's the story of our decades to come. The rest of the World is getting better at doing a lot of that stuff itself.
We can pootle along for quite some time riding on our own coattails but no one will have an answer for this, and the question will be asked with increasing urgency.
I'm not sure the idiots in the main parties have any clue or any semblance of a plan.
OutInTheShed said:
How many wouldqualify as an 'exodus'?
I only know a few individuals and a few companies.
As I see it, it's another negative factor for choosing whether to locate a business activity or role in the UK or elesewhere.
If someone has seriousincome from wealth held abroad, there will come a point where even a very well paid role in the UK won't be worth doing, because tax on their foreign wealth would exceed the nett income from the UK job.
There is a danger that the City loses critical mass in some sectors of finance, then you lose not only the non-doms but a lot of roles for mere mortals too.
I feel there is an element of hypocisy, because London/the UK does pretty well out of the rest of the World in some of these sectors.
I did some work for a mid-sized firm with main bases in England and India, and offices elsewhere around the World. Many of the top jobs were eminently relocatable, and the interesting work was already visibly drifting away from England. A lot of people spent time in more than one country, it would be easy for quite a few roles to be tax resident elsewhere.
I think there is a wider problem, WTF does the UK actually do to earn its keep from the rest of the World?
The rest of the World is getting better at doing a lot of that stuff itself.
But I ask again, why is it that it does not effect other countries?I only know a few individuals and a few companies.
As I see it, it's another negative factor for choosing whether to locate a business activity or role in the UK or elesewhere.
If someone has seriousincome from wealth held abroad, there will come a point where even a very well paid role in the UK won't be worth doing, because tax on their foreign wealth would exceed the nett income from the UK job.
There is a danger that the City loses critical mass in some sectors of finance, then you lose not only the non-doms but a lot of roles for mere mortals too.
I feel there is an element of hypocisy, because London/the UK does pretty well out of the rest of the World in some of these sectors.
I did some work for a mid-sized firm with main bases in England and India, and offices elsewhere around the World. Many of the top jobs were eminently relocatable, and the interesting work was already visibly drifting away from England. A lot of people spent time in more than one country, it would be easy for quite a few roles to be tax resident elsewhere.
I think there is a wider problem, WTF does the UK actually do to earn its keep from the rest of the World?
The rest of the World is getting better at doing a lot of that stuff itself.
Also does it matter if the boss is living in Ireland, we need to start worrying about where the businesses are located, I am sure Tesco - the company - will pay more tax than the CEO and less so about whether some Indian billionaire will move away from the UK.
UK seems to have sold off many off its businesses in the last 30 years, Why is it for example France, Germany, Italy can make cars yet the UK failed, after all we had non dom status Germany didn't?
Rufus Stone said:
Oliver Hardy said:
Explain? I gather your saying someone earning £150,000 will pay a# tax rate of 23%?
My total tax rate with NI is 32%
Most of Sunak's income is not earned income. Do you really not know that?My total tax rate with NI is 32%
I know he has stakes in some businesses from news reports, but what they are ?
They also have an income from dad's in law company.
I have some shares here and there, what I receive seems to be taxed at normal rates, although I got a pay out this month from one of the companies I have shares in and it wasn't taxed, I got 54 pence!. Thinking of move to Italy!
Oliver Hardy said:
....Why is it for example France, Germany, Italy can make cars yet the UK failed, after all we had non dom status Germany didn't?
We made more than Italy in 2023...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by...
Murph7355 said:
They were manufactured her by companies from Japan, Germany, China, France...OutInTheShed said:
I know people in the oil industry who own homes in the UK but spend x-days a year out of the country to avoid becoming tax resident.
I imagine many of the non-doms who don't move their business out of the UK entirely will do similar.
If taxes rise, getting some tax-free work abroad becomes even more attractive.
Also fairly ordinary people start to realise that earning extra doesn't improve their lives very much, early retirement and semi-retirement become more appealing with every tax rise.
Non-dom & Non-res are 2 very different tax statuses. I benefit as non-res but will never benefit as non-dom. I imagine many of the non-doms who don't move their business out of the UK entirely will do similar.
If taxes rise, getting some tax-free work abroad becomes even more attractive.
Also fairly ordinary people start to realise that earning extra doesn't improve their lives very much, early retirement and semi-retirement become more appealing with every tax rise.
I've been non-res for a lot of my working life for the simple reason that UK taxes as PAYE mean the reward does not justify the effort.
Oliver Hardy said:
I don't really know where he gets his pennies from. know he worked in the city, know his in laws are very well off
I know he has stakes in some businesses from news reports, but what they are ?
They also have an income from dad's in law company.
I have some shares here and there, what I receive seems to be taxed at normal rates, although I got a pay out this month from one of the companies I have shares in and it wasn't taxed, I got 54 pence!. Thinking of move to Italy!
So you saw a misleading headline somewhere and ran with it. I know he has stakes in some businesses from news reports, but what they are ?
They also have an income from dad's in law company.
I have some shares here and there, what I receive seems to be taxed at normal rates, although I got a pay out this month from one of the companies I have shares in and it wasn't taxed, I got 54 pence!. Thinking of move to Italy!
Oliver Hardy said:
Murph7355 said:
They were manufactured her by companies from Japan, Germany, China, France...To the best of my knowledge, "rich" people tend to have significant unrealised capital gains each year. These amounts plus their income are added up and compared with the actual tax paid, invariably giving a lower overall percentage rate.
Some sort of wealth tax could capture some of these "gains", but that is another whole can of worms.
GT03ROB said:
OutInTheShed said:
I know people in the oil industry who own homes in the UK but spend x-days a year out of the country to avoid becoming tax resident.
I imagine many of the non-doms who don't move their business out of the UK entirely will do similar.
If taxes rise, getting some tax-free work abroad becomes even more attractive.
Also fairly ordinary people start to realise that earning extra doesn't improve their lives very much, early retirement and semi-retirement become more appealing with every tax rise.
Non-dom & Non-res are 2 very different tax statuses. I benefit as non-res but will never benefit as non-dom. I imagine many of the non-doms who don't move their business out of the UK entirely will do similar.
If taxes rise, getting some tax-free work abroad becomes even more attractive.
Also fairly ordinary people start to realise that earning extra doesn't improve their lives very much, early retirement and semi-retirement become more appealing with every tax rise.
I've been non-res for a lot of my working life for the simple reason that UK taxes as PAYE mean the reward does not justify the effort.
Non-dom is a UK tax law that allows you to be resident in the UK but not domiciled.
Oliver Hardy said:
But I ask again, why is it that it does not effect other countries?
Also does it matter if the boss is living in Ireland, we need to start worrying about where the businesses are located, I am sure Tesco - the company - will pay more tax than the CEO and less so about whether some Indian billionaire will move away from the UK.
UK seems to have sold off many off its businesses in the last 30 years, Why is it for example France, Germany, Italy can make cars yet the UK failed, after all we had non dom status Germany didn't?
Perhaps it does affect other countries, in the sense that they don't have disproportionate financial services sector that we do?Also does it matter if the boss is living in Ireland, we need to start worrying about where the businesses are located, I am sure Tesco - the company - will pay more tax than the CEO and less so about whether some Indian billionaire will move away from the UK.
UK seems to have sold off many off its businesses in the last 30 years, Why is it for example France, Germany, Italy can make cars yet the UK failed, after all we had non dom status Germany didn't?
They don't have vast inflows of foreign money into their real estate sectors in the way that we have had.
Unfortunately, we have become overly dependent on these things and now they are not enough to balance the books.
The sale of UK companies has been going on for more than 30 years.
We are still evolving from the decisions made in the 1990s, these thing work slower than most of us imagine.
Tesco? That's where we went for cheap shopping in the era before Aldi.
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