Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?
Discussion
Mrr T said:
gt_12345 said:
Mrr T said:
No they are not like the average brit. Even a young immigrant will on average contribute more. Partly because you do not have to pay for their education but also they will not contain those who choose not to work or are on disability which will be included in the UK average.
-Why won't they contain those who don't want to work?-Why won't they be disabled?
- Besides the problems of immigrating. FOML did not include a freedom to claim benefits. Post brexit would not get a visa.
Any more useless questions?
oyster said:
1. A 1% annual levy on all net worth above £10k.
2. Immediate raise of the pension age to 70 and increase by 1 year every 5 years for the next 15 years.
3. Raise the private pension age in line with the state pension age.
4. Remove the personal allowance withdrawal
5. Remove all pension annual and lifetime limits.
Result - a million+ extra workers available without any need for further immigration.
Run on that platform .... no result.2. Immediate raise of the pension age to 70 and increase by 1 year every 5 years for the next 15 years.
3. Raise the private pension age in line with the state pension age.
4. Remove the personal allowance withdrawal
5. Remove all pension annual and lifetime limits.
Result - a million+ extra workers available without any need for further immigration.
You think you can force people into work through making them poorer? Run on that mandate. I'll buy the popcorn.
I don't see anywhere in your list about improving health care for the elderly so that they can continue to work. I'm guessing you don't want that to be your problem and think it's their's?
Real life is annoying isn't it, it would be much easier if we could write lists of s
te that'll never work and never be held accountable to implementing them.I'm working age and get a bit annoyed at how the previous generation have benefits I never will. But I don't plan to take a shovel to their head. They're my parents after all.
I’m always somewhat amused at that accusing pensioners of having had the easy street. Now, yes, the post war generation got a reasonably good deal of the hand, but I think those born the generation before might, just might, have a bit of a problem with the whinge. Both generations making up the pensioner age group - thought that earlier generation has of course considerably died off over the last decade.
My wider point being that the “pensioner” demographic invariably includes 2 generations, not just one - both of whom may have had considerably different experiences. Not may, quite probably did.
My wider point being that the “pensioner” demographic invariably includes 2 generations, not just one - both of whom may have had considerably different experiences. Not may, quite probably did.
Getragdogleg said:
Mrr T said:
gt_12345 said:
Mrr T said:
No they are not like the average brit. Even a young immigrant will on average contribute more. Partly because you do not have to pay for their education but also they will not contain those who choose not to work or are on disability which will be included in the UK average.
-Why won't they contain those who don't want to work?-Why won't they be disabled?
gt_12345 said:
wisbech said:
gt_12345 said:
What countries, with extensive public services and social welfare, have zero % income tax?
UAE. Of course, they also have 80% of the population as immigrants (who don't get the public services & welfare) and oil.https://u.ae/en/information-and-services/social-af...
A family of 4 will get about 4,200 pounds a month in allowances. Housing for emiratis is also free or subsidised, free health care etc.
DeejRC said:
I’m always somewhat amused at that accusing pensioners of having had the easy street. Now, yes, the post war generation got a reasonably good deal of the hand, but I think those born the generation before might, just might, have a bit of a problem with the whinge. Both generations making up the pensioner age group - thought that earlier generation has of course considerably died off over the last decade.
My wider point being that the “pensioner” demographic invariably includes 2 generations, not just one - both of whom may have had considerably different experiences. Not may, quite probably did.
Its okay - they will probably be the last generations to live on easy street anyways.My wider point being that the “pensioner” demographic invariably includes 2 generations, not just one - both of whom may have had considerably different experiences. Not may, quite probably did.
Mrr T said:
Post brexit, EU or ROW, no immigrants coming on a work visa has a right to benefits and most must pay for any healthcare.
Doesn't happen in practice. Unlike France, Italy etc UK healthcare is not being run on the basis of give us your credit card before we treat you. No one is turned away from A&E due to lack of payment options. gt_12345 said:
StevieBee said:
gt_12345 said:
The only people who benefit from immigration are business and property owners.
Take that opinion to any Adult Social Care home or service, any local authority's waste management department, hospitality or healthcare sectors and report back to tell us how you got on.Just in case they hadn't thought of it, you might want to suggest that they pay more and recruit more British people or train more British people while you're at it.
And ignore anyone that points out that around 90% of the stock of the British population is immigrant stock - that's just history. History - Smistory! Who needs that, eh?
Or, to save you the time, you might want to step back a bit and reflect on the absurdity of such a statement.
I meant mass unskilled immigration.
Looks like that blows all your points out the water.
Unskilled (which is a broad and often misrepresented term) labour is where we are struggling the most. let me give you an example.
Over the past 20 years, one of the services we have provided to local authority clients is public engagement. This involves hiring people to knock on doors and impart information (such as details about changes to waste collection). No experience was needed - we'd provide all the training needed. We paid well above the national average and looked after these teams well. For each vacancy we'd get between three and four applicants. On average, half our teams were foreign nationals, mainly European but students from elsewhere too. Since 2016 it became impossible to recruit sufficient numbers. Our last project (in London) had 12 vacancies for which we received 8 applicants. Even this was paying an amount that was close to it making in not worth our while. And today it isn't worth our while and have withdrawn this service. As have our competitors.
A mate runs a top-drawer Turkey Farm. He's had to dial back production because he cannot get the staff to do the mundane but necessary stuff.
And venture into any care home and you'll find Care Workers having to limit the time they administer care while they clean, cook and undertake other tasks better suited to less qualified individuals.
So, whilst 'mass' is an emotive word, a bit of unskilled immigration wouldn't be a bad thing and benefit far more than just businesses and landlords.
StevieBee said:
Over the past 20 years, one of the services we have provided to local authority clients is public engagement. This involves hiring people to knock on doors and impart information (such as details about changes to waste collection). No experience was needed - we'd provide all the training needed. We paid well above the national average and looked after these teams well. For each vacancy we'd get between three and four applicants. On average, half our teams were foreign nationals, mainly European but students from elsewhere too. Since 2016 it became impossible to recruit sufficient numbers. Our last project (in London) had 12 vacancies for which we received 8 applicants. Even this was paying an amount that was close to it making in not worth our while. And today it isn't worth our while and have withdrawn this service. As have our competitors.
Good, complete waste of taxpayers money.cheesejunkie said:
What's your solution to an aging population?
Euthanasia would work but it won't be popular at the polling booth. So it's immigration. But if you want someone to promise you cake then knock yourself out voting for bakers.
There's no easy answer nor any quick fix, and any possible solution goes way beyond the normal election cycle - which is probably why politicians have been dodging the question for decades. Euthanasia would work but it won't be popular at the polling booth. So it's immigration. But if you want someone to promise you cake then knock yourself out voting for bakers.
We obviously need a higher proportion of the population to be involved in caring and medical professions, and we need a stronger productive economy to pay for that. We'll also need to cut back in some other areas, if we deem looking after the elderly more important than those things. The ordinary operation of the market seems like the best way to organise that. We could do with better funded pensions, and more private provision of care. These will take a long time to come through, but the sooner we start the better.
We will need to plug some gaps with controlled immigration of the right sort, on the right terms and we will probably also need to work longer and pay higher taxes. In my view it would be highly desirable to have some serious social changes to encourage families to look after each other to a greater degree, and to foster a self sustaining population. But those are complicated and intangible things.
Simply importing millions of people from the third world and hoping they're doctors and nurses doesn't seem like much of a solution.
cheesejunkie said:
oyster said:
1. A 1% annual levy on all net worth above £10k.
2. Immediate raise of the pension age to 70 and increase by 1 year every 5 years for the next 15 years.
3. Raise the private pension age in line with the state pension age.
4. Remove the personal allowance withdrawal
5. Remove all pension annual and lifetime limits.
Result - a million+ extra workers available without any need for further immigration.
Run on that platform .... no result.2. Immediate raise of the pension age to 70 and increase by 1 year every 5 years for the next 15 years.
3. Raise the private pension age in line with the state pension age.
4. Remove the personal allowance withdrawal
5. Remove all pension annual and lifetime limits.
Result - a million+ extra workers available without any need for further immigration.
You think you can force people into work through making them poorer? Run on that mandate. I'll buy the popcorn.
I don't see anywhere in your list about improving health care for the elderly so that they can continue to work. I'm guessing you don't want that to be your problem and think it's their's?
Real life is annoying isn't it, it would be much easier if we could write lists of ste that'll never work and never be held accountable to implementing them.I'm working age and get a bit annoyed at how the previous generation have benefits I never will. But I don't plan to take a shovel to their head. They're my parents after all.
520TORQUES said:
StevieBee said:
Over the past 20 years, one of the services we have provided to local authority clients is public engagement. This involves hiring people to knock on doors and impart information (such as details about changes to waste collection). No experience was needed - we'd provide all the training needed. We paid well above the national average and looked after these teams well. For each vacancy we'd get between three and four applicants. On average, half our teams were foreign nationals, mainly European but students from elsewhere too. Since 2016 it became impossible to recruit sufficient numbers. Our last project (in London) had 12 vacancies for which we received 8 applicants. Even this was paying an amount that was close to it making in not worth our while. And today it isn't worth our while and have withdrawn this service. As have our competitors.
Good, complete waste of taxpayers money.Edited by StevieBee on Monday 15th January 13:43
StevieBee said:
gt_12345 said:
StevieBee said:
gt_12345 said:
The only people who benefit from immigration are business and property owners.
Take that opinion to any Adult Social Care home or service, any local authority's waste management department, hospitality or healthcare sectors and report back to tell us how you got on.Just in case they hadn't thought of it, you might want to suggest that they pay more and recruit more British people or train more British people while you're at it.
And ignore anyone that points out that around 90% of the stock of the British population is immigrant stock - that's just history. History - Smistory! Who needs that, eh?
Or, to save you the time, you might want to step back a bit and reflect on the absurdity of such a statement.
I meant mass unskilled immigration.
Looks like that blows all your points out the water.
Unskilled (which is a broad and often misrepresented term) labour is where we are struggling the most. let me give you an example.
Over the past 20 years, one of the services we have provided to local authority clients is public engagement. This involves hiring people to knock on doors and impart information (such as details about changes to waste collection). No experience was needed - we'd provide all the training needed. We paid well above the national average and looked after these teams well. For each vacancy we'd get between three and four applicants. On average, half our teams were foreign nationals, mainly European but students from elsewhere too. Since 2016 it became impossible to recruit sufficient numbers. Our last project (in London) had 12 vacancies for which we received 8 applicants. Even this was paying an amount that was close to it making in not worth our while. And today it isn't worth our while and have withdrawn this service. As have our competitors.
A mate runs a top-drawer Turkey Farm. He's had to dial back production because he cannot get the staff to do the mundane but necessary stuff.
And venture into any care home and you'll find Care Workers having to limit the time they administer care while they clean, cook and undertake other tasks better suited to less qualified individuals.
So, whilst 'mass' is an emotive word, a bit of unskilled immigration wouldn't be a bad thing and benefit far more than just businesses and landlords.
Perhaps we aren't paying the proper rate for people who work in care or food preparation, etc. So we need to keep importing more people who will accept it in the short term and have the tax payer make up their money so they can actually live.
oyster said:
1. A 1% annual levy on all net worth above £10k.
2. Immediate raise of the pension age to 70 and increase by 1 year every 5 years for the next 15 years.
3. Raise the private pension age in line with the state pension age.
4. Remove the personal allowance withdrawal
5. Remove all pension annual and lifetime limits.
Result - a million+ extra workers available without any need for further immigration.
So a £5k annual charge on anyone owning a three bed semi in the South-East. 2. Immediate raise of the pension age to 70 and increase by 1 year every 5 years for the next 15 years.
3. Raise the private pension age in line with the state pension age.
4. Remove the personal allowance withdrawal
5. Remove all pension annual and lifetime limits.
Result - a million+ extra workers available without any need for further immigration.
swisstoni said:
StevieBee said:
gt_12345 said:
StevieBee said:
gt_12345 said:
The only people who benefit from immigration are business and property owners.
Take that opinion to any Adult Social Care home or service, any local authority's waste management department, hospitality or healthcare sectors and report back to tell us how you got on.Just in case they hadn't thought of it, you might want to suggest that they pay more and recruit more British people or train more British people while you're at it.
And ignore anyone that points out that around 90% of the stock of the British population is immigrant stock - that's just history. History - Smistory! Who needs that, eh?
Or, to save you the time, you might want to step back a bit and reflect on the absurdity of such a statement.
I meant mass unskilled immigration.
Looks like that blows all your points out the water.
Unskilled (which is a broad and often misrepresented term) labour is where we are struggling the most. let me give you an example.
Over the past 20 years, one of the services we have provided to local authority clients is public engagement. This involves hiring people to knock on doors and impart information (such as details about changes to waste collection). No experience was needed - we'd provide all the training needed. We paid well above the national average and looked after these teams well. For each vacancy we'd get between three and four applicants. On average, half our teams were foreign nationals, mainly European but students from elsewhere too. Since 2016 it became impossible to recruit sufficient numbers. Our last project (in London) had 12 vacancies for which we received 8 applicants. Even this was paying an amount that was close to it making in not worth our while. And today it isn't worth our while and have withdrawn this service. As have our competitors.
A mate runs a top-drawer Turkey Farm. He's had to dial back production because he cannot get the staff to do the mundane but necessary stuff.
And venture into any care home and you'll find Care Workers having to limit the time they administer care while they clean, cook and undertake other tasks better suited to less qualified individuals.
So, whilst 'mass' is an emotive word, a bit of unskilled immigration wouldn't be a bad thing and benefit far more than just businesses and landlords.
Perhaps we aren't paying the proper rate for people who work in care or food preparation, etc. So we need to keep importing more people who will accept it in the short term and have the tax payer make up their money so they can actually live.
DeejRC said:
I’m always somewhat amused at that accusing pensioners of having had the easy street. Now, yes, the post war generation got a reasonably good deal of the hand,
Though just how good does rather depend on the young today assuming baby boomers were all middle class. Complaints about free university tuition for example are not that relevant to those who started work at 15, as my Dad did.It was also very common back then for working class children to go for periods without enough to eat if the family were struggling.
StevieBee said:
swisstoni said:
StevieBee said:
gt_12345 said:
StevieBee said:
gt_12345 said:
The only people who benefit from immigration are business and property owners.
Take that opinion to any Adult Social Care home or service, any local authority's waste management department, hospitality or healthcare sectors and report back to tell us how you got on.Just in case they hadn't thought of it, you might want to suggest that they pay more and recruit more British people or train more British people while you're at it.
And ignore anyone that points out that around 90% of the stock of the British population is immigrant stock - that's just history. History - Smistory! Who needs that, eh?
Or, to save you the time, you might want to step back a bit and reflect on the absurdity of such a statement.
I meant mass unskilled immigration.
Looks like that blows all your points out the water.
Unskilled (which is a broad and often misrepresented term) labour is where we are struggling the most. let me give you an example.
Over the past 20 years, one of the services we have provided to local authority clients is public engagement. This involves hiring people to knock on doors and impart information (such as details about changes to waste collection). No experience was needed - we'd provide all the training needed. We paid well above the national average and looked after these teams well. For each vacancy we'd get between three and four applicants. On average, half our teams were foreign nationals, mainly European but students from elsewhere too. Since 2016 it became impossible to recruit sufficient numbers. Our last project (in London) had 12 vacancies for which we received 8 applicants. Even this was paying an amount that was close to it making in not worth our while. And today it isn't worth our while and have withdrawn this service. As have our competitors.
A mate runs a top-drawer Turkey Farm. He's had to dial back production because he cannot get the staff to do the mundane but necessary stuff.
And venture into any care home and you'll find Care Workers having to limit the time they administer care while they clean, cook and undertake other tasks better suited to less qualified individuals.
So, whilst 'mass' is an emotive word, a bit of unskilled immigration wouldn't be a bad thing and benefit far more than just businesses and landlords.
Perhaps we aren't paying the proper rate for people who work in care or food preparation, etc. So we need to keep importing more people who will accept it in the short term and have the tax payer make up their money so they can actually live.
520TORQUES said:
Mrr T said:
Post brexit, EU or ROW, no immigrants coming on a work visa has a right to benefits and most must pay for any healthcare.
Doesn't happen in practice. Unlike France, Italy etc UK healthcare is not being run on the basis of give us your credit card before we treat you. No one is turned away from A&E due to lack of payment options. 520TORQUES said:
crankedup5 said:
Of course, it’s why it’s unlikely I will vote for the past political parties which I have previously voted for. That’s how democracy works, elected Government not delivering, past political parties not delivered whilst in Government and yet still pronounce the same old stale policies with minor tweaks attached. And yet people moan about non deliverance over decades but will either shrug the shoulders and not vote or even worse vote for the very policies that have previously failed.
France is currently governed by a party that didn't exist 8 years ago.That's panned out well.
For me if the established political Parties are not delivering then it requires a disrupter to shake up the comfortable complacency.
Continuing to vote for what has continually failed for decades will not change the future.
StevieBee said:
Possibly. But even with higher wages, there's insufficient number of indigenous people willing to do that type of work. As I can testify to, paying a high wage doesn't necessarily result in getting the staff numbers you need.
If you started paying care workers £50 an hour, you'd get plenty of indigenous people taking it up. Paid for by increasing taxes of course. No external labour needed.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff