Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 4)

[crankedup5]

HM-2 said:

Vanden Saab said:

German figures are almost the same

Er, no they're not.





UK car production levels are lower than at the height of Covid. The overall trend for German car production is a slight decline, but in the UK it's fallen off a cliff edge and 2022 is considerably less than half where it was in 2016.

Edited by HM-2 on Thursday 26th January 10:46

Chips with everything is the reason car production has fallen to a great extent.

[HM-2]

crankedup5 said:

Your empirical reality is based upon a ‘here and right now’

Most observations of current realities are.

crankedup5 said:

There are systemic labour shortages spread across virtually all advanced economies, is that due to brexit as well?

This was addressed in the post you quoted, you just failed to properly read it.

crankedup5 said:

Evidence shows that some low pay industries are now competing to secure the services of some low pay workers, for example lorry drivers

Lorry drivers are not a "low paid industry". Their average is significantly higher than the UK average salary.

crankedup5 said:

Because you don’t recall wage suppression being a brexit point doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.

Can you point to an instance of wage suppression being highlighted in pro-Brexit literature as something Brexit would stop?

crankedup5 said:

What brexit has achieved thus far is to stop FOM which flooded our Country with low skills.

So you think that current immigration, which is the highest on record by an enormous margin, consists of highly skilled persons? Madness.

crankedup5 said:

Taking back control

Yaaay! Brexiteer Buzzword Bingo!

crankedup5 said:

Chips with everything is the reason car production has fallen to a great extent.

As I posted on the previous page, chip supply issues are no longer extant. Supply normalised roughly mid-2022, and availability was much higher through most of 2022 than in 2021.

Edited by HM-2 on Thursday 26th January 12:09

[Vanden Saab]

HM-2 said:

Vanden Saab said:

German figures are almost the same

Er, no they're not.





UK car production levels are lower than at the height of Covid. The overall trend for German car production is a slight decline, but in the UK it's fallen off a cliff edge and 2022 is considerably less than half where it was in 2016.

Edited by HM-2 on Thursday 26th January 10:46

Let's compare the uk figures from the same source



500 to 250 for the Germans and 150 to 75 in the UK. The two graphs seen together are as close to identical as you could get. Apart from the last quarter where the lack of gas is probably holding back German production.

[crankedup5]

HM-2 said:

crankedup5 said:

Your empirical reality is based upon a ‘here and right now’

Most observations of current realities are.

crankedup5 said:

There are systemic labour shortages spread across virtually all advanced economies, is that due to brexit as well?

This was addressed in the post you quoted, you just failed to properly read it.

crankedup5 said:

Evidence shows that some low pay industries are now competing to secure the services of some low pay workers, for example lorry drivers

Lorry drivers are not a "low paid industry". Their average is significantly higher than the UK average salary.

crankedup5 said:

Because you don’t recall wage suppression being a brexit point doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.

Can you point to an instance of wage suppression being highlighted in pro-Brexit literature as something Brexit would stop?

crankedup5 said:

What brexit has achieved thus far is to stop FOM which flooded our Country with low skills.

So you think that current immigration, which is the highest on record by an enormous margin, consists of highly skilled persons? Madness.

crankedup5 said:

Taking back control

Yaaay! Brexiteer Buzzword Bingo!

And so your empirical is a pointless observation in the context of brexit being a long term political and trading macro change. Still if it makes you feel better.

Lorry drivers not low pay, try telling them that. Also businesses have had to compete very hard to attract those workers, offers of golden hello are not uncommon. The thing is the median average is low pay, wage suppression over a past decade or more have created this situation.

The current immigration is illegal immigration, you know this has nothing to do with brexit.

I knew you would enjoy my ‘Take back control’ quip

[Mrr T]

HM-2 said:

crankedup5 said:

Because you don’t recall wage suppression being a brexit point doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.

Can you point to an instance of wage suppression being highlighted in pro-Brexit literature as something Brexit would stop?

crankedup5 said:

What brexit has achieved thus far is to stop FOM which flooded our Country with low skills.

So you think that current immigration, which is the highest on record by an enormous margin, consists of highly skilled persons? Madness.

Cranks does not need evidence if he believes somethings, even if the evidence say different, then he will continue to make the claims.

The fact that all the studies showed EU immigration had no affect on wages except at the very lowest, and the average EU immigrant was educated above the UK average. That does not matter to cranks who believes no one in EE went to school.

[HM-2]

crankedup5 said:

And so your empirical is a pointless observation in the context of brexit

As lovely as this opinion is, it is not relevant in the context of what's being discussed.
It's almost like you've forgotten the content of your own previous posts.

crankedup5 said:

Lorry drivers not low pay, try telling them that.

It doesn't really matter what they think, the fact they get paid fairly significantly above the average UK wage is indisputable.

crankedup5 said:

Also businesses have had to compete very hard to attract those workers, offers of golden hello are not uncommon.

Ah yes, all those Golden Hellos for farm workers.

crankedup5 said:

The current immigration is illegal immigration

No it's not.

Net migration to the UK in YE June 2022 was 504,000, 2.5x that of the previous year. Of that, a whopping total of around 40,000 was "iirregular migration". It's like 8% of that total.

Where do you get this utter drivel?

[Mortarboard]

crankedup5 said:

And this is what really pisses me off about some remainers in here, telling lies. I did not vote for brexit ‘specifically’ to see an end to FOM and a uplift in U.K. wages. Talk about distort the truth and facts to suit your political position on brexit.

You waxed lyrically about suppressed wages, your son hard done by, etc etc

M.

[Vasco]

crankedup5 said:

Your empirical reality is based upon a ‘here and right now’ , the fact that brexit is a long term mission seems to be lost on you.
There are systemic labour shortages spread across virtually all advanced economies, is that due to brexit as well? Of course brexit was always going to throw up problems in the short term, we knew this and these are th ‘bumps in the road’.
Evidence shows that some low pay industries are now competing to secure the services of some low pay workers, for example lorry drivers. It’s not only about pay though, it’s about working conditions also.
Because you don’t recall wage suppression being a brexit point doesn’t mean it didn’t exist. Low wage suppression was always one of the more major issues within the brexit debate.

Of course an advanced economy requires a diverse work force, that’s obvious to everyone. The fact that the U.K. is open for business and seeking highly skilled workers is nothing new. What brexit has achieved thus far is to stop FOM which flooded our Country with low skills. Now we have controlled that we are inviting in those workers skills identified as being of benefit to the Country.
Taking back control was the simple message and that is one of the fundamental reasons for brexit.

Thank goodness for some common sense at last. Incredible that others can so blatantly create their own little world, where simple hard facts have to be ignored.

[blueg33]

Mortarboard said:

crankedup5 said:

And this is what really pisses me off about some remainers in here, telling lies. I did not vote for brexit ‘specifically’ to see an end to FOM and a uplift in U.K. wages. Talk about distort the truth and facts to suit your political position on brexit.

You waxed lyrically about suppressed wages, your son hard done by, etc etc

M.

That’s what I recall too.

[Mortarboard]

Vasco said:

Thank goodness for some common sense at last. Incredible that others can so blatantly create their own little world, where simple hard facts have to be ignored.

Oh the irony

M.

[Murph7355]

blueg33 said:

Mortarboard said:

crankedup5 said:

And this is what really pisses me off about some remainers in here, telling lies. I did not vote for brexit ‘specifically’ to see an end to FOM and a uplift in U.K. wages. Talk about distort the truth and facts to suit your political position on brexit.

You waxed lyrically about suppressed wages, your son hard done by, etc etc

M.

That’s what I recall too.

Read what he just wrote chaps.

"specifically".

[blueg33]

Murph7355 said:

blueg33 said:

Mortarboard said:

crankedup5 said:

And this is what really pisses me off about some remainers in here, telling lies. I did not vote for brexit ‘specifically’ to see an end to FOM and a uplift in U.K. wages. Talk about distort the truth and facts to suit your political position on brexit.

You waxed lyrically about suppressed wages, your son hard done by, etc etc

M.

That’s what I recall too.

Read what he just wrote chaps.

"specifically".

You are right, he changes his mind on the main reason frequently

[Mortarboard]

Murph7355 said:

Read what he just wrote chaps.

"specifically".

Yes, "specifically"

Not "solely"

Is English still spoken in the uk or what?



M.

[Murph7355]

Mortarboard said:

Murph7355 said:

Read what he just wrote chaps.

"specifically".

Yes, "specifically"

Not "solely"

Is English still spoken in the uk or what?



M.

It is.

Evidently not so much in the US or Eire.

[Mortarboard]

Murph7355 said:

It is.

But not understood all too well, it seems.

M.

Edited by Mortarboard on Thursday 26th January 13:50

[Killboy]

Back to this episode of "Brexit benefits in every day life". I'm in the process of trying to post an old pair of KTM carburettors to a guy in Belgium. Wow, what a mare. DPD has spat out 4 pages of customs declarations I've gotta send with it and its all a bit of a faf. If this is the nonsense one has to go through just to post something of inconsequential value, it feel for anyone trying to do it on a professional level. Its also a fair bit more expensive than things like this have been in the past.

[turbobloke]

Curiously for the BBC at this stage so long after brexit, R4 had an item this morning which included a comment from outside the BBC (of course) essentially pointing out the tokenism of the EU Parliament and MEPs. It reminded me of this, from Juncker, on EU 'democracy'.

"We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back.“

"If it's a Yes, we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue.“

Jean-Claude Juncker, thank EU for brexit.

[crankedup5]

Mrr T said:

HM-2 said:

crankedup5 said:

Because you don’t recall wage suppression being a brexit point doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.

Can you point to an instance of wage suppression being highlighted in pro-Brexit literature as something Brexit would stop?

crankedup5 said:

What brexit has achieved thus far is to stop FOM which flooded our Country with low skills.

So you think that current immigration, which is the highest on record by an enormous margin, consists of highly skilled persons? Madness.

Cranks does not need evidence if he believes somethings, even if the evidence say different, then he will continue to make the claims.

The fact that all the studies showed EU immigration had no affect on wages except at the very lowest, and the average EU immigrant was educated above the UK average. That does not matter to cranks who believes no one in EE went to school.

amongst all the froth and nonsense spouted by anti brexit in here and elsewhere it’s refreshing to read that you Mr T has acknowledged that wage suppression was due to EU policy, namely FOM.
You acknowledge that the lowest paid did suffer, well done it’s only taken six years to get there.
As for the comment regarding my beliefs in education of people, why do you spout these lies? I know you and others are desperate to win an internet point but telling lies is not the way forward.

[crankedup5]

Murph7355 said:

blueg33 said:

Mortarboard said:

crankedup5 said:

And this is what really pisses me off about some remainers in here, telling lies. I did not vote for brexit ‘specifically’ to see an end to FOM and a uplift in U.K. wages. Talk about distort the truth and facts to suit your political position on brexit.

You waxed lyrically about suppressed wages, your son hard done by, etc etc

M.

That’s what I recall too.

Read what he just wrote chaps.

"specifically".

Indeed, still it’s a big word for some in here

[crankedup5]

turbobloke said:

Curiously for the BBC at this stage so long after brexit, R4 had an item this morning which included a comment from outside the BBC (of course) essentially pointing out the tokenism of the EU Parliament and MEPs. It reminded me of this, from Juncker, on EU 'democracy'.

"We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back.“

"If it's a Yes, we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue.“

Jean-Claude Juncker, thank EU for brexit.

Yup, I also recall this coming from Juncker, I’m not entirely sure that he was drunk at the time, which was unusual for him. But yes, he summed up the Democratic. values within their Parliament within a short paragraph.