46th President of the United States, Joe Biden
Discussion
vetrof said:
It's a bit unnerving when you've believed everything you've been told for the last eight years then suddenly the very people you've been believing are exposed as not being entirely truthful. What else is false? It's not a question they are comfortable asking.
Yes. Expect more to come out when he quits or when he loses. Remember when he stated he'd fire someone on the spot for speaking badly to staff? Well there are noises now that he's not the nicest person to deal with. If people are keeping quiet for the love of him then that's admirable but indications are that this might not be the case. When people are silenced through fear or threat there's usually a watershed moment at the point they feel empowered enough to speak the truth.
I can imagine there'll be a whiff of the Jimmy Savile about this, not particularly that he's been up to the same shenanigans as that man, but more that the accepted image of Jimmy Savile transformed from cigar chomping charity Jesus to proper nasty perv rather rapidly, once the time came, and the same revelatory process may occur with JB.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/...
NRS said:
dvs_dave said:
That’s what I thought. You don’t even have the stones to admit it, even hypothetically. Pathetic.
Fortunately my say in this whole situation isn’t hypothetical, and as it stands today, Biden in a body bag is still the smartest choice.
The irony is this sort of attitude if applied to people who can vote in the US is a negative thing. The swing voters who will decide the election by their nature will not be for Biden or Trump. Yet we see some on here attack this sort of person and lump them as a cowardly Trump supporter frequently because they don’t say that Biden is a better candidate in some (or all) ways. That’s a stupid thing to do, it’s the sort of thing that will push people to Trump. Instead you should accept they might disagree but it’s better to vote for Trump because of xyz - and agree to disagree on some issues. Fortunately my say in this whole situation isn’t hypothetical, and as it stands today, Biden in a body bag is still the smartest choice.
I’m not even a swing person as I’m 100% behind Biden’s team if it’s only those two but have been called it. Probably because I don’t feel the need to post loads of stuff agreeing with everyone most of the time, and there is very few real Trump supporters on here to call out. So I just call out the odd post I think it either not treating issues equally (you need to be a doctor to diagnose Biden but not for Trump etc) which I think is negative for getting people to vote against Trump. Aggressive attacks and selective facts and ‘truths’ is what he does, I don’t want to see it used by people against him.
Talking of which, how’s the similar dilemma you’re all facing tonight going?
Jeanboi said:
Yes. Expect more to come out when he quits or when he loses.
Remember when he stated he'd fire someone on the spot for speaking badly to staff? Well there are noises now that he's not the nicest person to deal with. If people are keeping quiet for the love of him then that's admirable but indications are that this might not be the case. When people are silenced through fear or threat there's usually a watershed moment at the point they feel empowered enough to speak the truth.
I can imagine there'll be a whiff of the Jimmy Savile about this, not particularly that he's been up to the same shenanigans as that man, but more that the accepted image of Jimmy Savile transformed from cigar chomping charity Jesus to proper nasty perv rather rapidly, once the time came, and the same revelatory process may occur with JB.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/...
So he’s now not a very nice person and a paedo. But you’re not a Trump supporter in any way Remember when he stated he'd fire someone on the spot for speaking badly to staff? Well there are noises now that he's not the nicest person to deal with. If people are keeping quiet for the love of him then that's admirable but indications are that this might not be the case. When people are silenced through fear or threat there's usually a watershed moment at the point they feel empowered enough to speak the truth.
I can imagine there'll be a whiff of the Jimmy Savile about this, not particularly that he's been up to the same shenanigans as that man, but more that the accepted image of Jimmy Savile transformed from cigar chomping charity Jesus to proper nasty perv rather rapidly, once the time came, and the same revelatory process may occur with JB.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/...
Yet not a word about the guy you don’t support who has actual legal judgements against him for sexual offences.
Worst “I’m not a Trump supporter, but…” ever.
dvs_dave said:
Hmmm, ok. Your posting style is completely at odds with that position and is leading everyone to believe the opposite. So you might want to have a think about that.
So hypothetically, if the presumptive candidates remain as they are currently, who would get your vote? Abstinence isn’t an option.
The Democrats and the Republicans are not the only candidates on the ballot. There will certainly be a Libertarian candidate, there will probably be a Green Party candidate, sometimes there are one or two more. It all depends on where you are, as each State has their own election rules. Maybe if the idiots woke up and stopped mindlessly voting for candidates based upon the letter D or R after their name, we might get get better candidates out of the Ds and Rs, and we might get a credible alternative party.So hypothetically, if the presumptive candidates remain as they are currently, who would get your vote? Abstinence isn’t an option.
Cue the idiotic "wasted vote" counte-arguments.
mko9 said:
The Democrats and the Republicans are not the only candidates on the ballot. There will certainly be a Libertarian candidate, there will probably be a Green Party candidate, sometimes there are one or two more. It all depends on where you are, as each State has their own election rules. Maybe if the idiots woke up and stopped mindlessly voting for candidates based upon the letter D or R after their name, we might get get better candidates out of the Ds and Rs, and we might get a credible alternative party.
Cue the idiotic "wasted vote" counte-arguments.
Seems unlikely based on the eligible voters on this thread.Cue the idiotic "wasted vote" counte-arguments.
dvs_dave said:
I’m a swing voter. And in an election between someone who probably shouldn’t be president, and someone who absolutely must not be president, the choice is crystal clear. I lament the demise of the GOP and the wretched hive of scum and villainy it has become.
...
You don't sound like much of a swing voter..." I lament the demise of the GOP and the wretched hive of scum and villainy it has become" .......
Whilst I don't get a vote, I am friends with a number of people in the US, and whilst they don't like to admit it openly, they will (mostly) hold their nose and vote Trump. Reason is due to the economy and tax policies. They know all about Trump's 'weaknesses', and they are not stupid or gullible. But economic growth, general business related policies and general taxation policies are likely to be more favourable under Trump in their opinion. Of course, these are their private views; no MAGA caps or bumper stickers are on display.
That's why I think this election isn't just about the personal failings of the candidates. Everyone knows Trump is flawed (to say the least). But which candidate is likely to make those voting and their families better off, via good business policies and good tax policies? That's also why I think replacing Biden (whilst is now inevitable) doesn't make it an automatic win for the Democrats, as they won't have the benefit of incumbency which heightens the perceived economic risks.
EddieSteadyGo said:
You don't sound like much of a swing voter..." I lament the demise of the GOP and the wretched hive of scum and villainy it has become" ....
Whilst I don't get a vote, I am friends with a number of people in the US, and whilst they don't like to admit it openly, they will (mostly) hold their nose and vote Trump. Reason is due to the economy and tax policies. They know all about Trump's 'weaknesses', and they are not stupid or gullible. But economic growth, general business related policies and general taxation policies are likely to be more favourable under Trump in their opinion. Of course, these are their private views; no MAGA caps or bumper stickers are on display.
That's why I think this election isn't just about the personal failings of the candidates. Everyone knows Trump is flawed (to say the least). But which candidate is likely to make those voting and their families better off, via good business policies and good tax policies? That's also why I think replacing Biden (whilst is now inevitable) doesn't make it an automatic win for the Democrats, as they won't have the benefit of incumbency which heightens the perceived economic risks.
He sounds exactly like a swing voter. He sounds like he would generally prefer to be voting for. Republican candidate but will move his vote elsewhere when he feels it is the right thing to do. Whilst I don't get a vote, I am friends with a number of people in the US, and whilst they don't like to admit it openly, they will (mostly) hold their nose and vote Trump. Reason is due to the economy and tax policies. They know all about Trump's 'weaknesses', and they are not stupid or gullible. But economic growth, general business related policies and general taxation policies are likely to be more favourable under Trump in their opinion. Of course, these are their private views; no MAGA caps or bumper stickers are on display.
That's why I think this election isn't just about the personal failings of the candidates. Everyone knows Trump is flawed (to say the least). But which candidate is likely to make those voting and their families better off, via good business policies and good tax policies? That's also why I think replacing Biden (whilst is now inevitable) doesn't make it an automatic win for the Democrats, as they won't have the benefit of incumbency which heightens the perceived economic risks.
Equally, your number of friends have had a chance to see Trump first hand. What exactly did he deliver in last Presidency that meets your claim that he’ll be better for the economy and tax policies?
mko9 said:
dvs_dave said:
Hmmm, ok. Your posting style is completely at odds with that position and is leading everyone to believe the opposite. So you might want to have a think about that.
So hypothetically, if the presumptive candidates remain as they are currently, who would get your vote? Abstinence isn’t an option.
The Democrats and the Republicans are not the only candidates on the ballot. There will certainly be a Libertarian candidate, there will probably be a Green Party candidate, sometimes there are one or two more. It all depends on where you are, as each State has their own election rules. Maybe if the idiots woke up and stopped mindlessly voting for candidates based upon the letter D or R after their name, we might get get better candidates out of the Ds and Rs, and we might get a credible alternative party.So hypothetically, if the presumptive candidates remain as they are currently, who would get your vote? Abstinence isn’t an option.
Cue the idiotic "wasted vote" counte-arguments.
LF5335 said:
...
Equally, your number of friends have had a chance to see Trump first hand. What exactly did he deliver in last Presidency that meets your claim that he’ll be better for the economy and tax policies?
I think the answer to that question is mainly about perceptions rather than strict, objective reality. Economy felt better, inflation was under control, interest-rates weren't sky high. However, objectively the reasons for high inflation and the resulting high interest rate are mainly linked to monetary policy due covid. Is that Biden's fault - no, but it does affect how people feel when it comes to the decision about which candidate is going to make them and their families better off. And in terms of tax policies, it's mainly the fear about what might happen in a second Biden term, rather than what has happened, for example with capital gains tax rates.Equally, your number of friends have had a chance to see Trump first hand. What exactly did he deliver in last Presidency that meets your claim that he’ll be better for the economy and tax policies?
My main point though is this thread (and the Trump thread) tries to distil the election into which candidate is the 'better person'. It's why there was so much certainty from some here that Trump just couldn't win. I'm saying for many people, it isn't about which candidate has the better morals or greater virtue, but which candidate is going to make the individual voter and their families better off.
EddieSteadyGo said:
paulguitar said:
The 97% of Americans who are not in that situation will not benefit.
Maybe a good chunk of that 97% are striving to get to that position?Nonetheless, you've hit on an interesting part of the American psyche. Many people, even at the bottom end of society, still believe in an 'American dream' and vote accordingly. Effectively they vote against their interests as if they are the wealthy person they hope to become, rather than the person they are, and almost (statistically) certainly always will be. What they do by doing this is make the people who already have money have more of it, at their own expense.
paulguitar said:
Perhaps, but the vast majority will not make it, and are deluded.
Nonetheless, you've hit on an interesting part of the American psyche. Many people, even at the bottom end of society, still believe in an 'American dream' and vote accordingly. Effectively they vote against their interests as if they are the wealthy person they hope to become, rather than the person they are, and almost (statistically) certainly always will be. What they do by doing this is make the people who already have money have more of it, at their own expense.
TBH I admire the aspiration, and the striving, and the sacrifices that many Americans are prepared to make to try and achieve their goals. It certainly seems to have paid off when you compare the US to the UK/EU in terms of economic wealth generated.Nonetheless, you've hit on an interesting part of the American psyche. Many people, even at the bottom end of society, still believe in an 'American dream' and vote accordingly. Effectively they vote against their interests as if they are the wealthy person they hope to become, rather than the person they are, and almost (statistically) certainly always will be. What they do by doing this is make the people who already have money have more of it, at their own expense.
EddieSteadyGo said:
paulguitar said:
Perhaps, but the vast majority will not make it, and are deluded.
Nonetheless, you've hit on an interesting part of the American psyche. Many people, even at the bottom end of society, still believe in an 'American dream' and vote accordingly. Effectively they vote against their interests as if they are the wealthy person they hope to become, rather than the person they are, and almost (statistically) certainly always will be. What they do by doing this is make the people who already have money have more of it, at their own expense.
TBH I admire the aspiration, and the striving, and the sacrifices that many Americans are prepared to make to try and achieve their goals. It certainly seems to have paid off when you compare the US vs the UK and similar European countries in terms of economic wealth generated.Nonetheless, you've hit on an interesting part of the American psyche. Many people, even at the bottom end of society, still believe in an 'American dream' and vote accordingly. Effectively they vote against their interests as if they are the wealthy person they hope to become, rather than the person they are, and almost (statistically) certainly always will be. What they do by doing this is make the people who already have money have more of it, at their own expense.
Embattled Biden makes latest gaffe saying he’s the ‘first Black woman to serve with a Black president’
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/...
Jetlag
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/...
Jetlag
LF5335 said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
You don't sound like much of a swing voter..." I lament the demise of the GOP and the wretched hive of scum and villainy it has become" ....
Whilst I don't get a vote, I am friends with a number of people in the US, and whilst they don't like to admit it openly, they will (mostly) hold their nose and vote Trump. Reason is due to the economy and tax policies. They know all about Trump's 'weaknesses', and they are not stupid or gullible. But economic growth, general business related policies and general taxation policies are likely to be more favourable under Trump in their opinion. Of course, these are their private views; no MAGA caps or bumper stickers are on display.
That's why I think this election isn't just about the personal failings of the candidates. Everyone knows Trump is flawed (to say the least). But which candidate is likely to make those voting and their families better off, via good business policies and good tax policies? That's also why I think replacing Biden (whilst is now inevitable) doesn't make it an automatic win for the Democrats, as they won't have the benefit of incumbency which heightens the perceived economic risks.
He sounds exactly like a swing voter. He sounds like he would generally prefer to be voting for. Republican candidate but will move his vote elsewhere when he feels it is the right thing to do. Whilst I don't get a vote, I am friends with a number of people in the US, and whilst they don't like to admit it openly, they will (mostly) hold their nose and vote Trump. Reason is due to the economy and tax policies. They know all about Trump's 'weaknesses', and they are not stupid or gullible. But economic growth, general business related policies and general taxation policies are likely to be more favourable under Trump in their opinion. Of course, these are their private views; no MAGA caps or bumper stickers are on display.
That's why I think this election isn't just about the personal failings of the candidates. Everyone knows Trump is flawed (to say the least). But which candidate is likely to make those voting and their families better off, via good business policies and good tax policies? That's also why I think replacing Biden (whilst is now inevitable) doesn't make it an automatic win for the Democrats, as they won't have the benefit of incumbency which heightens the perceived economic risks.
Equally, your number of friends have had a chance to see Trump first hand. What exactly did he deliver in last Presidency that meets your claim that he’ll be better for the economy and tax policies?
mko9 said:
Umm, a better economy and tax policy. Plus standing up to China, forcing the rest of NATO to start paying their way, border security, progress on peace in the Middle East, etc. Outside of mean tweets, there really wasn't much of a down side
Standing up to China He did nothing about NATO, other than say what Putin told him to when out of office.
Don’t even get me started on the other stuff
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