Macron calls a national election
Discussion
DeejRC said:
The worrying take away from this shouldn’t be the strength of Le Pen, it should be the continued lack of any rebound for the traditional left n righties. They are utterly empty.
Usually the way. Offer people something better to vote for and they tend to grab it with both hands. The UK's suffering the same issue.The left in France are even loonier than our left it seems.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun...
"Politicians from the alliance have said the policies agreed include lowering the retirement age, which President Emmanuel Macron raised in an unpopular change last year, linking salaries to inflation and introducing a wealth tax for the rich."
Lowering the retirement age to 60?
How on earth will France pay for that while we have to push ours to 68 and beyond?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun...
"Politicians from the alliance have said the policies agreed include lowering the retirement age, which President Emmanuel Macron raised in an unpopular change last year, linking salaries to inflation and introducing a wealth tax for the rich."
Lowering the retirement age to 60?
How on earth will France pay for that while we have to push ours to 68 and beyond?
President Merkin said:
jshell said:
crankedup5 said:
jshell said:
Wills2 said:
Kermit power said:
Vasco said:
It's always interesting when people raise the issue of Brexit over and over again.
For the ordinary guy in the street I never hear any regret about the decision that was made. In many parts of the UK it was a foregone conclusion that European laws weren't going to work here. For some businesses it was a nightmare but, even so, I also don't recall anybody suggesting that the vote was blatantly left or right.
How often do you actually talk politics with "the ordinary guy in the street" though? For the ordinary guy in the street I never hear any regret about the decision that was made. In many parts of the UK it was a foregone conclusion that European laws weren't going to work here. For some businesses it was a nightmare but, even so, I also don't recall anybody suggesting that the vote was blatantly left or right.
EU chief von der Leyen: "We have means and possibilities in the EU to make sure that what is agreed at the European level is implemented. For example the infringement procedures and these are biting or we have the conditionality mechanism. For example member state does not abide to the rule of law, you might recall that we had to be very tough on Poland and held back 135 billions Euros because the former government did systematically destroy the rule of law in Poland. With the view on Hungary we have the same situation that there are steps that Hungary has to do to reinstall the rule of law if not the money stays frozen so we have the mean and these are biting means that we can apply. But of course we want the countries to come to a better path so if there is a change to the positive side then we can release the money, but the EU has the means to make sure that the law is implemented."
So, don't break the party line ('rule of law') or we will severly punish you. Maybe the concerns about Sovereignty were valid...
I'd be happy with a trading block, but not this form of authoritarianism. https://x.com/newstart_2024/status/180092930526797...
Edited by jshell on Thursday 13th June 09:59
They have passed the bill for digital ID covering health, travel, social services, driving licences, bank accounts etc.
They are progressing their CBDC's which are essentially digital tokens that you have no control over. https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/pr/date/2023/html/...
Whilst the above is sold as being for our convenience, and some may actually like that. It essentially gives a massive level of control over movement, services, wealth and access to information that many believe is state overreach.
DeejRC said:
The bottom line is that Marine poses v little threat to France or the EU because she will still have to grapple with the same problems in actually governing France as Macron did. It’s the same with Meloni in Italy. For quite a while before her election, I was quite vocal on her about that loony, I really did worry what she would do with Italy. The answer is: absolutely bugger all because she has been lumbered with trying to govern a semi ungovernable country. It’s left no room for her to be a loony because she has to spend so much time doing the nuts n bolts.
Le Pen will have the same problem and yeah, as Kermit says, she will suffer the reality of governing. Just wait till the banlieues do their first riot on her watch, her same lack of ability to do much about it, the Press on her back, Marseilles doing its thing and her same lack of ability to police the place.
That may be true for France but her cosiness with Putin doesn't bode very well for Ukraine.Le Pen will have the same problem and yeah, as Kermit says, she will suffer the reality of governing. Just wait till the banlieues do their first riot on her watch, her same lack of ability to do much about it, the Press on her back, Marseilles doing its thing and her same lack of ability to police the place.
President Merkin said:
You either know you're talling s
te or you don't. If it's the former, then you're a bad faith guy, the latter, an ignorant fool. Either way all of this was explained to you the last time you posted this quote & you ignored it & reposted it here, so I know which one I believe.
Yes, yes, rule of law. The EU law. It's overreach and authoritarian. No-one outside of our politicos signed up for that - did you?te or you don't. If it's the former, then you're a bad faith guy, the latter, an ignorant fool. Either way all of this was explained to you the last time you posted this quote & you ignored it & reposted it here, so I know which one I believe.The other stuff is referenced clearly.
Moving from a trading group to a single government was never what was agreed. Hence Brexit.
hidetheelephants said:
DeejRC said:
The bottom line is that Marine poses v little threat to France or the EU because she will still have to grapple with the same problems in actually governing France as Macron did. It’s the same with Meloni in Italy. For quite a while before her election, I was quite vocal on her about that loony, I really did worry what she would do with Italy. The answer is: absolutely bugger all because she has been lumbered with trying to govern a semi ungovernable country. It’s left no room for her to be a loony because she has to spend so much time doing the nuts n bolts.
Le Pen will have the same problem and yeah, as Kermit says, she will suffer the reality of governing. Just wait till the banlieues do their first riot on her watch, her same lack of ability to do much about it, the Press on her back, Marseilles doing its thing and her same lack of ability to police the place.
That may be true for France but her cosiness with Putin doesn't bode very well for Ukraine.Le Pen will have the same problem and yeah, as Kermit says, she will suffer the reality of governing. Just wait till the banlieues do their first riot on her watch, her same lack of ability to do much about it, the Press on her back, Marseilles doing its thing and her same lack of ability to police the place.
She has had zero cosiness with Putin for the simple realpolitik that Putin had f
k all use for her. Putin may now say some nice things about her, but they are irrelevant for Ukraine. France, as a whole, doesnt give much of a rat fk about Ukraine, it never has. Because, well, #France. It cares a little bit more now than it did before, but thats only because Putin publically pissed on Macron, which in French means he pissed on France. That though, is very much not about Ukraine, its about French ego. 
Murph7355 said:
Kermit power said:
Vasco said:
It's always interesting when people raise the issue of Brexit over and over again.
For the ordinary guy in the street I never hear any regret about the decision that was made. In many parts of the UK it was a foregone conclusion that European laws weren't going to work here. For some businesses it was a nightmare but, even so, I also don't recall anybody suggesting that the vote was blatantly left or right.
How often do you actually talk politics with "the ordinary guy in the street" though? For the ordinary guy in the street I never hear any regret about the decision that was made. In many parts of the UK it was a foregone conclusion that European laws weren't going to work here. For some businesses it was a nightmare but, even so, I also don't recall anybody suggesting that the vote was blatantly left or right.
I only know four people who've actually admitted to voting Brexit. One has admitted she didn't really understand the ramifications and only voted that way because she didn't like the government. One definitely now regrets it and feels he was sold a lie. One - who I tend to avoid now - still thinks it was a wonderful idea and the last is an arch-hypocrite because he already had an EU passport so suffers very little of the personal downside, but has at least had the guts to say he was wrong.
I'm sure if I lived in a blue collar community in Grimsby or somewhere, my circle of friends would hold rather different views.
768 said:
[b]The Conservatives have had Patel and Braverman talking about it, both tagged as far right.[/) To be fair, I haven't seen Cleverly get the same treatment yet, but he's been less publicly vocal about it so far. Has Cooper actually talked about how they're going to reduce net migration? I know they're going to "smash the gangs", say please to the EU and not do Rwanda, but that sounds pretty empty to me, I'm not surprised she's not getting any flack when she's just wishing it down rather than providing anything concrete to attack.
This would be the same Braverman who thinks Churchill's fight them on the beaches speech would've been better if it had been referring to refugees, and talks about her most fervent dream being copies of the Telegraph showing deportation planes taking off for Rwanda on the front page - presumably because she's worn out her copy of Fifty Shades or whatever else she used to use for the same purpose - and you're surprised that some people might feel she's a smidgeon right of centre?Kermit power said:
Most people tend to only do things in their circle of friends.
I only know four people who've actually admitted to voting Brexit. One has admitted she didn't really understand the ramifications and only voted that way because she didn't like the government. One definitely now regrets it and feels he was sold a lie. One - who I tend to avoid now - still thinks it was a wonderful idea and the last is an arch-hypocrite because he already had an EU passport so suffers very little of the personal downside, but has at least had the guts to say he was wrong.
I'm sure if I lived in a blue collar community in Grimsby or somewhere, my circle of friends would hold rather different views.
I can safely say that in a variety of circles I mix in, the topic of Brexit has probably been mentioned no more than half a dozen times, and most of those back in 2016.I only know four people who've actually admitted to voting Brexit. One has admitted she didn't really understand the ramifications and only voted that way because she didn't like the government. One definitely now regrets it and feels he was sold a lie. One - who I tend to avoid now - still thinks it was a wonderful idea and the last is an arch-hypocrite because he already had an EU passport so suffers very little of the personal downside, but has at least had the guts to say he was wrong.
I'm sure if I lived in a blue collar community in Grimsby or somewhere, my circle of friends would hold rather different views.
Blue collar towns, white collar, work....
Let alone people "admitting" and "regretting".
Kermit power said:
Most people tend to only do things in their circle of friends.
I only know four people who've actually admitted to voting Brexit. One has admitted she didn't really understand the ramifications and only voted that way because she didn't like the government. One definitely now regrets it and feels he was sold a lie. One - who I tend to avoid now - still thinks it was a wonderful idea and the last is an arch-hypocrite because he already had an EU passport so suffers very little of the personal downside, but has at least had the guts to say he was wrong.
I'm sure if I lived in a blue collar community in Grimsby or somewhere, my circle of friends would hold rather different views.
Opinions change over timeI only know four people who've actually admitted to voting Brexit. One has admitted she didn't really understand the ramifications and only voted that way because she didn't like the government. One definitely now regrets it and feels he was sold a lie. One - who I tend to avoid now - still thinks it was a wonderful idea and the last is an arch-hypocrite because he already had an EU passport so suffers very little of the personal downside, but has at least had the guts to say he was wrong.
I'm sure if I lived in a blue collar community in Grimsby or somewhere, my circle of friends would hold rather different views.
Murph7355 said:
Kermit power said:
Most people tend to only do things in their circle of friends.
I only know four people who've actually admitted to voting Brexit. One has admitted she didn't really understand the ramifications and only voted that way because she didn't like the government. One definitely now regrets it and feels he was sold a lie. One - who I tend to avoid now - still thinks it was a wonderful idea and the last is an arch-hypocrite because he already had an EU passport so suffers very little of the personal downside, but has at least had the guts to say he was wrong.
I'm sure if I lived in a blue collar community in Grimsby or somewhere, my circle of friends would hold rather different views.
I can safely say that in a variety of circles I mix in, the topic of Brexit has probably been mentioned no more than half a dozen times, and most of those back in 2016.I only know four people who've actually admitted to voting Brexit. One has admitted she didn't really understand the ramifications and only voted that way because she didn't like the government. One definitely now regrets it and feels he was sold a lie. One - who I tend to avoid now - still thinks it was a wonderful idea and the last is an arch-hypocrite because he already had an EU passport so suffers very little of the personal downside, but has at least had the guts to say he was wrong.
I'm sure if I lived in a blue collar community in Grimsby or somewhere, my circle of friends would hold rather different views.
Blue collar towns, white collar, work....
Let alone people "admitting" and "regretting".
Interesting to see Jordan Bardella over the channel saying that the Rallye Nationale won't attempt to govern unless they have an absolute majority.
Given that they're currently the front runners on around 35%, chances are they're not going to make it to 50%, but equally there's little chance of anyone else overtaking them.
I guess that's one way for a populist to try and get ahead of the curve to avoid the risk of actually having to step up and prove they're not talking absolute bks!
Given that they're currently the front runners on around 35%, chances are they're not going to make it to 50%, but equally there's little chance of anyone else overtaking them.
I guess that's one way for a populist to try and get ahead of the curve to avoid the risk of actually having to step up and prove they're not talking absolute b
ks!
Kermit power said:
Interesting to see Jordan Bardella over the channel saying that the Rallye Nationale won't attempt to govern unless they have an absolute majority.
Given that they're currently the front runners on around 35%, chances are they're not going to make it to 50%, but equally there's little chance of anyone else overtaking them.
I guess that's one way for a populist to try and get ahead of the curve to avoid the risk of actually having to step up and prove they're not talking absolute bks!
More a case of getting in first before everybody says they won’t work with them. French political bunfights can be vicious old things! It’s also very “gamble’y” politics, in that the French body politic is notoriously fickle and if they feel they are getting dicked with, they can turn on the perceived guilty party v quickly!!Given that they're currently the front runners on around 35%, chances are they're not going to make it to 50%, but equally there's little chance of anyone else overtaking them.
I guess that's one way for a populist to try and get ahead of the curve to avoid the risk of actually having to step up and prove they're not talking absolute b
ks!Kermit power said:
Interesting to see Jordan Bardella over the channel saying that the Rallye Nationale won't attempt to govern unless they have an absolute majority.
Given that they're currently the front runners on around 35%, chances are they're not going to make it to 50%, but equally there's little chance of anyone else overtaking them.
I guess that's one way for a populist to try and get ahead of the curve to avoid the risk of actually having to step up and prove they're not talking absolute bks!
The article you posted suggest the reason is not one of risk:Given that they're currently the front runners on around 35%, chances are they're not going to make it to 50%, but equally there's little chance of anyone else overtaking them.
I guess that's one way for a populist to try and get ahead of the curve to avoid the risk of actually having to step up and prove they're not talking absolute b
ks!With a minority government, the RN would have to seek coalitions with other political forces, a task which could prove complicated due to the staunch opposition to the far right expressed by nearly all other political forces.
“Who can believe that we will be able to change the daily lives of the French by cohabiting with a plurality? Nobody can,” Bardella said. “I say to the people of France: to try us out, we need an absolute majority.”
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