Junior Doctors' Pay Claim Poll
Poll: Junior Doctors' Pay Claim Poll
Total Members Polled: 1034
Discussion
CrgT16 said:
The NHS employs around 1.7M people and has a budget of £162M pounds.
Amazon employs 1.6M people and as an operating budget of half a million dollars… round numbers.
Different business, not comparable but the scale of money involved in similar sized companies is obvious….
What?Amazon employs 1.6M people and as an operating budget of half a million dollars… round numbers.
Different business, not comparable but the scale of money involved in similar sized companies is obvious….
272BHP said:
s1962a said:
...the NHS has spent £4.6 billion on agency doctors in the past five years and as much as £5,200 for a single agency doctor shift
Instead of having parliamentary committees investigating if someone had a slice of cake why can't we haul in everyone involved in that £5.2k for a single shift?That's our money.
Ask yourself who these "agency doctors" are....
Killboy said:
CrgT16 said:
The NHS employs around 1.7M people and has a budget of £162M pounds.
Amazon employs 1.6M people and as an operating budget of half a million dollars… round numbers.
Different business, not comparable but the scale of money involved in similar sized companies is obvious….
What?Amazon employs 1.6M people and as an operating budget of half a million dollars… round numbers.
Different business, not comparable but the scale of money involved in similar sized companies is obvious….
The "junior doctor" title seems to encompass far too many pay grades. Do they really go straight from being junior doctors to being consultants, GPs, surgeons, etc?
Maybe separate them out a bit, junior doctors for the foundation years, then call them doctors, before they specialise. That way, those currently getting £30k to £40k basic could cop for a decent pay rise, with those on £40k plus getting a similar cash sum ( smaller percentage).
£30k plus overtime does seem very poor after all that training (and student debt), but a £20k pay rise for those at the top of the scale is crazy.
Maybe separate them out a bit, junior doctors for the foundation years, then call them doctors, before they specialise. That way, those currently getting £30k to £40k basic could cop for a decent pay rise, with those on £40k plus getting a similar cash sum ( smaller percentage).
£30k plus overtime does seem very poor after all that training (and student debt), but a £20k pay rise for those at the top of the scale is crazy.
If this isn’t sorted out we are walking headlong into a disaster. Primary care is already on its knees and next winter my well be the final straw. Waiting lists are out of control, likely exacerbated by the strikes. Doctors are underpaid and overworked compared with theirs peers abroad and should be paid appropriately.
Ruskie said:
Doctors are underpaid and overworked compared with theirs peers abroad and should be paid appropriately.
Posted earlier in the thread;https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/04/12/doctors-s...
Biggy Stardust said:
Killboy said:
CrgT16 said:
The NHS employs around 1.7M people and has a budget of £162M pounds.
Amazon employs 1.6M people and as an operating budget of half a million dollars… round numbers.
Different business, not comparable but the scale of money involved in similar sized companies is obvious….
What?Amazon employs 1.6M people and as an operating budget of half a million dollars… round numbers.
Different business, not comparable but the scale of money involved in similar sized companies is obvious….
Still my point is made…. The NHS with such large workforce is surely underfunded or badly managed.
Ruskie said:
If this isn’t sorted out we are walking headlong into a disaster. Primary care is already on its knees and next winter my well be the final straw. Waiting lists are out of control, likely exacerbated by the strikes. Doctors are underpaid and overworked compared with theirs peers abroad and should be paid appropriately.
There was allegedly a 23 minute period on August 3rd 1977 when the NHS wasn't in crisis, on its knees & desperate for more money. Other than then it's been wanting massively more funding ever since its creation.loafer123 said:
Ruskie said:
Doctors are underpaid and overworked compared with theirs peers abroad and should be paid appropriately.
Posted earlier in the thread;https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/04/12/doctors-s...
clockworks said:
The "junior doctor" title seems to encompass far too many pay grades. Do they really go straight from being junior doctors to being consultants, GPs, surgeons, etc?
.
No a Junior doctor can be a surgeon, if you have a hip replacement it will probably be done by a junior doctor paid less than a train driver but doing twice as many hours..
This may have been asked already, but what level of responsibility does a junior doctor have? Is there a ‘grown-up’ there supervising and checking all their decisions? Who takes the fall if they screw up? Is it the supervisor or the junior doctor themselves?
I only ask because in my own industry the big salaries are paid to the ones who’ll shoulder all the blame when it goes wrong; the juniors don’t really take the pain and are paid less accordingly. With the responsibility comes more money.
I only ask because in my own industry the big salaries are paid to the ones who’ll shoulder all the blame when it goes wrong; the juniors don’t really take the pain and are paid less accordingly. With the responsibility comes more money.
Dixy said:
clockworks said:
The "junior doctor" title seems to encompass far too many pay grades. Do they really go straight from being junior doctors to being consultants, GPs, surgeons, etc?
.
No a Junior doctor can be a surgeon, if you have a hip replacement it will probably be done by a junior doctor paid less than a train driver but doing twice as many hours..
IANAD and only have this NHS source to go on.
NHS on hip replacement surgery said:
Most people would have seen their surgeon at a pre-assessment clinic and had the chance to talk about the operation. A senior-level surgeon, consultant or registrar will do the operation. They may be helped by junior doctors. You should be told at your pre-operative assessment who will be doing the operation.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/hip-replacement/what-happens/#:~:text=Most%20people%20would%20have%20seen,will%20be%20doing%20the%20operationWhich is a bit curious itself as I thought a registrar was a senior junior doctor.
Crumpet said:
This may have been asked already, but what level of responsibility does a junior doctor have? Is there a ‘grown-up’ there supervising and checking all their decisions? Who takes the fall if they screw up? Is it the supervisor or the junior doctor themselves?
I only ask because in my own industry the big salaries are paid to the ones who’ll shoulder all the blame when it goes wrong; the juniors don’t really take the pain and are paid less accordingly. With the responsibility comes more money.
The junior part is misleading. It covers any doctor below Consultant level in the hospital. They are all fully qualified doctors from FY1 onwards.I only ask because in my own industry the big salaries are paid to the ones who’ll shoulder all the blame when it goes wrong; the juniors don’t really take the pain and are paid less accordingly. With the responsibility comes more money.
Ruskie said:
loafer123 said:
Ruskie said:
Doctors are underpaid and overworked compared with theirs peers abroad and should be paid appropriately.
Posted earlier in the thread;https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/04/12/doctors-s...
Ruskie said:
If this isn’t sorted out we are walking headlong into a disaster. Primary care is already on its knees and next winter my well be the final straw. Waiting lists are out of control, likely exacerbated by the strikes. Doctors are underpaid and overworked compared with theirs peers abroad and should be paid appropriately.
It will be resolved soonish, time is against the government on this one, they just have realised it yet. When they do it will get resolved very, very quickly.The government cannot let this continue in the run the up to winter, especially with it being so close to a General Election. I'll go it with it being resolved before their party conference so 1st October at the latest.
Crumpet said:
This may have been asked already, but what level of responsibility does a junior doctor have? Is there a ‘grown-up’ there supervising and checking all their decisions? Who takes the fall if they screw up? Is it the supervisor or the junior doctor themselves?
I only ask because in my own industry the big salaries are paid to the ones who’ll shoulder all the blame when it goes wrong; the juniors don’t really take the pain and are paid less accordingly. With the responsibility comes more money.
As a junior doctor I attended one Coroners court in person to give evidence in over a decade of working, and that was related to clinical decision making I had taken as a senior trainee (less than 12 month before getting my Consultant registration) without consultant review. Most junior doctors get through their training without ever having to even make a written statement to the Coroners. I only ask because in my own industry the big salaries are paid to the ones who’ll shoulder all the blame when it goes wrong; the juniors don’t really take the pain and are paid less accordingly. With the responsibility comes more money.
As a consultant I attend Coroners court every 6 months or so because of the acuity in the speciality I practice in, including one case that was an external national level investigation. My clinical risk judgement/decision making now is far far superior to when I was a junior doctor.
The biggest worry I had as a junior doctor was what was happening to the patient I was seeing there and than, I have over 200+ specialist patients on the books as consultant where I will be expected to take responsibility overall for anything that goes wrong with their care.
However regardless of grade, any doctor can/have ended up been prosecuted for man-slaughter for simply turning up to work with the best intentions of literally saving lives, whilst suffering from the same human fallacies that affect us all meat bags.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/13/dr...
Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 12th April 21:52
loafer123 said:
Ruskie said:
loafer123 said:
Ruskie said:
Doctors are underpaid and overworked compared with theirs peers abroad and should be paid appropriately.
Posted earlier in the thread;https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/04/12/doctors-s...
gangzoom said:
- snip
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/13/dr...
Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 12th April 21:52
k up, even as a newly qualified Junior, can result in being struck-off. Years of training down the drain. That’s pretty brutal and the pay should more reflect this. Then again, for example, I suppose armed Police have similar levels of responsibility - with career ending or worse consequences - for less money.
I have to say, I don’t mind high levels of responsibility when the pay is high but for 1.5-2x the national average salary there’s no chance you’d get me in a responsible job with life or death consequences.
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