Another dog attack
Discussion
NMNeil said:
How about simple legislation. "All dogs when in a public place must be fitted with a muzzle to prevent biting"?
Massive over reach. And wouldn't be adhered to by exactly the type of person who usually owns these problem dogs anyway.My larger dog is 85Kg. Has never shown any aggression. Well trained, and both of my dogs walk off lead around roads and into town except where a local PSPO says they can't. But as a responsible owner, much as I love the big daft mutt, I'd have him put to sleep in a heartbeat if he ever showed aggression to a person.
That's the issue. I suspect almost none of these dogs that attack will have never shown aggression before. But when they do show aggression the dullard owner doesn't get a muzzle, training or if necessary have the dog PTS.
I've owned and spent a lot of time around big dogs and I've never been attacked. In 9 years of owning big dogs only two dogs have ever gone for my dogs, both staffies and both owned by fairly low rent looking owners. No damage to my dogs, didn't work out so well for the staffies.
NMNeil said:
How about simple legislation. "All dogs when in a public place must be fitted with a muzzle to prevent biting"?
Specific breeds of dog should be muzzled in public. Bully XL, Rottweiler, GSD, Pit Bull, Staffordshire Bull Terrier.Little point muzzling a cavvy or toy poodle. It’d only stop them licking you.
[quote=__]
Specific breeds of dog should be muzzled in public. Bully XL, Rottweiler, GSD, Pit Bull, Staffordshire Bull Terrier.
Little point muzzling a cavvy or toy poodle. It’d only stop them licking you.
[/quote]
That's the right answer. Any dogs that "lock on" should be muzzled and on lead in public.
Specific breeds of dog should be muzzled in public. Bully XL, Rottweiler, GSD, Pit Bull, Staffordshire Bull Terrier.
Little point muzzling a cavvy or toy poodle. It’d only stop them licking you.
[/quote]
That's the right answer. Any dogs that "lock on" should be muzzled and on lead in public.
dhutch said:
I guess if you made it so all humans had to wear handcuffs it would prevent shootings?
Unless the cuffs slipped a bit.
Or someone didn't put them on right.
Law braking folk didn't put theirs on.
Do you really think there is going to be a quick and easy simple overnight fix without any drawbacks?
Have you ever tried to put a muzzle on a dog?
There's some real bUnless the cuffs slipped a bit.
Or someone didn't put them on right.
Law braking folk didn't put theirs on.
Do you really think there is going to be a quick and easy simple overnight fix without any drawbacks?
Have you ever tried to put a muzzle on a dog?
ks on this thread. "Other bad things happen, so let dogs bite people"Super Sonic said:
There's some real bks on this thread. "Other bad things happen, so let dogs bite people"
That wasn't my point at all.ks on this thread. "Other bad things happen, so let dogs bite people"However it is important, when assessing risk, to consider the likelihood as well as the severity.
When looking at mitigation measures, it is then important to consider the cost of the mitigations against the scale of the risk.
And when considering giving advice, or making mitigation mandatory, to consider what the practical uptake would be across the various sectors.
dhutch said:
Super Sonic said:
There's some real bks on this thread. "Other bad things happen, so let dogs bite people"
That wasn't my point at all.ks on this thread. "Other bad things happen, so let dogs bite people"However it is important, when assessing risk, to consider the likelihood as well as the severity.
When looking at mitigation measures, it is then important to consider the cost of the mitigations against the scale of the risk.
And when considering giving advice, or making mitigation mandatory, to consider what the practical uptake would be across the various sectors.
This obviously applies to some of the 'whatabout' cases as well- eg cars bring huge benefits to offset the downsides.
mac96 said:
Seems to often get forgotten, but it is also relevant to assess benefits; it would be reasonable to suggest that dog ownership has benefits....
Absolutely. I hadn't mentioned it specifically, perhaps as it is so obviously, but yes that is the other side to the picture.I don't have any stats to hand but fully expect that even just considering life or death, that dogs have prevented significantly more deaths than they have caused, due to their positive effects on mental health and well, being improving physical health by being a catalyst for exercise and reducing suicide and low mood.
Obviously for every life saved, there will be dozens if not hundreds of life's which are vastly improved.
This doesn't mean dog attacks aren't tragic, or that we shouldn't keep an open mind to steps which can mitigate them, but it does mean that any measure considered should be balanced against the points made in the above posts.
markymarkthree said:
bmwmike said:
That's the right answer. Any dogs that "lock on" should be muzzled and on lead in public.
They don't "lock on", they are just strong.Muzzle all staffies, rotties ... why? Every staffie I have met has been a fantastic dog, we have one in the family, it is the most loving of any dog in the family!
For reference we had met it once at this point and the dog didn't know us at all! It's a fantastic dog and there is zero need to have it muzzled anywhere!
I get the public transport muzzling in all honesty, take it to a situation where drunks/idiots reside and who knows what might happen! Sometimes I've needed a muzzle
An example of the possible serious hazards of mixing dogs and cattle.
http://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/1219/r...
http://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/1219/r...
joshcowin said:
Don't bother you are arguing with people with extreme viewpoints!
Muzzle all staffies, rotties ... why? Every staffie I have met has been a fantastic dog, we have one in the family, it is the most loving of any dog in the family!
For reference we had met it once at this point and the dog didn't know us at all! It's a fantastic dog and there is zero need to have it muzzled anywhere!
I get the public transport muzzling in all honesty, take it to a situation where drunks/idiots reside and who knows what might happen! Sometimes I've needed a muzzle
We had a staffie. Took very similar pictures to what you have just posted. Zero signs of aggression, then one day it just turned and attacked my two nephews, shaking and killing the 4 month old and putting the 18 month old in a coma for six weeks, needing skin grafts and living with behavioral and cosmetic issues six years on.Muzzle all staffies, rotties ... why? Every staffie I have met has been a fantastic dog, we have one in the family, it is the most loving of any dog in the family!
For reference we had met it once at this point and the dog didn't know us at all! It's a fantastic dog and there is zero need to have it muzzled anywhere!
I get the public transport muzzling in all honesty, take it to a situation where drunks/idiots reside and who knows what might happen! Sometimes I've needed a muzzle
Therefore my opinion of strong dogs has changes somewhat, and I think that the stronger breeds should be at least kept on a lead and then not walked by anyone likely to be overpowered by them, its the moral thing to do, we have a choice to have a dog and then which breed to have, and need to accept the very real risks.
Jaaaag said:
joshcowin said:
Don't bother you are arguing with people with extreme viewpoints!
Muzzle all staffies, rotties ... why? Every staffie I have met has been a fantastic dog, we have one in the family, it is the most loving of any dog in the family!
For reference we had met it once at this point and the dog didn't know us at all! It's a fantastic dog and there is zero need to have it muzzled anywhere!
I get the public transport muzzling in all honesty, take it to a situation where drunks/idiots reside and who knows what might happen! Sometimes I've needed a muzzle
We had a staffie. Took very similar pictures to what you have just posted. Zero signs of aggression, then one day it just turned and attacked my two nephews, shaking and killing the 4 month old and putting the 18 month old in a coma for six weeks, needing skin grafts and living with behavioral and cosmetic issues six years on.Muzzle all staffies, rotties ... why? Every staffie I have met has been a fantastic dog, we have one in the family, it is the most loving of any dog in the family!
For reference we had met it once at this point and the dog didn't know us at all! It's a fantastic dog and there is zero need to have it muzzled anywhere!
I get the public transport muzzling in all honesty, take it to a situation where drunks/idiots reside and who knows what might happen! Sometimes I've needed a muzzle
Therefore my opinion of strong dogs has changes somewhat, and I think that the stronger breeds should be at least kept on a lead and then not walked by anyone likely to be overpowered by them, its the moral thing to do, we have a choice to have a dog and then which breed to have, and need to accept the very real risks.
And that's often the thing - dog owners are blinkered to their own pets usual behaviour - i've heard it first hand and on here. "he was fine one minute, then the next he was a complete *animal*". I mean wtf. Its not your surrogate baby, its an actual animal. Look at Josh's post above. Accuses me of having extreme viewpoint yet posts a pic of his pet (odd considering the topic IMO) and then goes onto say he would consider muzzling it on public transport because "who knows what might happen!". Well, we know what might happen regardless of whether its never shown aggression in the past. As for risks, accepting risk is not just on the owner but pushing the majority of the risk on the public/others - I don't know how well trained someones dog is, how good the owner is, whether it was bought of chavplace/marketplace or ebay or whatever.
Edited by bmwmike on Tuesday 17th January 12:11
Jaaaag said:
We had a staffie. Took very similar pictures to what you have just posted. Zero signs of aggression, then one day it just turned and attacked my two nephews, shaking and killing the 4 month old and putting the 18 month old in a coma for six weeks, needing skin grafts and living with behavioral and cosmetic issues six years on.
That was a shock to read.... your dog killed your nephew?!bmwmike said:
And that's often the thing - dog owners are blinkered to their own pets usual behaviour - i've heard it first hand and on here. "he was fine one minute, then the next he was a complete *animal*". I mean wtf. Its not your surrogate baby, its an actual animal. Look at Josh's post above. Accuses me of having extreme viewpoint yet posts a pic of his pet (odd considering the topic IMO) and then goes onto say he would consider muzzling it on public transport because "who knows what might happen!". Well, we know what might happen regardless of whether its never shown aggression in the past. As for risks, accepting risk is not just on the owner but pushing the majority of the risk on the public/others - I don't know how well trained someones dog is, how good the owner is, whether it was bought of chavplace/marketplace or ebay or whatever.
That's not my dog, I wouldn't let my dog on my sofa 
So you have created a situation that doesn't exist, this happens a lot on here!My muzzle point was a joke, did you not get that when I said that even I needed a muzzle on public transport.
I genuinley think your viewpoint is extreme,to say this - 'As for risks, accepting risk is not just on the owner but pushing the majority of the risk on the public/others - I don't know how well trained someones dog is, how good the owner is, whether it was bought of chavplace/marketplace or ebay or whatever.' - This isn't normal, to be thinking like this you have to have a real issue with dogs and their owners.
Jaaaag said:
We had a staffie. Took very similar pictures to what you have just posted. Zero signs of aggression, then one day it just turned and attacked my two nephews, shaking and killing the 4 month old and putting the 18 month old in a coma for six weeks, needing skin grafts and living with behavioral and cosmetic issues six years on.
Therefore my opinion of strong dogs has changes somewhat, and I think that the stronger breeds should be at least kept on a lead and then not walked by anyone likely to be overpowered by them, its the moral thing to do, we have a choice to have a dog and then which breed to have, and need to accept the very real risks.
That's shocking, sorry that happened, must have been terrible for you. Therefore my opinion of strong dogs has changes somewhat, and I think that the stronger breeds should be at least kept on a lead and then not walked by anyone likely to be overpowered by them, its the moral thing to do, we have a choice to have a dog and then which breed to have, and need to accept the very real risks.
Jaaaag said:
We had a staffie. Took very similar pictures to what you have just posted. Zero signs of aggression, then one day it just turned and attacked my two nephews, shaking and killing the 4 month old and putting the 18 month old in a coma for six weeks, needing skin grafts and living with behavioral and cosmetic issues six years on.
Therefore my opinion of strong dogs has changes somewhat, and I think that the stronger breeds should be at least kept on a lead and then not walked by anyone likely to be overpowered by them, its the moral thing to do, we have a choice to have a dog and then which breed to have, and need to accept the very real risks.
Thats awful Therefore my opinion of strong dogs has changes somewhat, and I think that the stronger breeds should be at least kept on a lead and then not walked by anyone likely to be overpowered by them, its the moral thing to do, we have a choice to have a dog and then which breed to have, and need to accept the very real risks.
Simpo Two said:
joshcowin said:
That's not my dog, I wouldn't let my dog on my sofa
Well it fooled me too. Did you google for 'friendly dog on sofa' just to post it? Misleading.I like the dog, I like dogs in general, I have a dog, I know they don't think logically, so I treat them differently to humans, I however don't go around demanding what people do with their dogs or suggest all dogs are dangerous. Some are, some might be, the vast vast majority are not and will never be!
joshcowin said:
Don't bother you are arguing with people with extreme viewpoints!
Muzzle all staffies, rotties ... why? Every staffie I have met has been a fantastic dog, we have one in the family, it is the most loving of any dog in the family!
As a police officer this was normally what we had to deal with.Muzzle all staffies, rotties ... why? Every staffie I have met has been a fantastic dog, we have one in the family, it is the most loving of any dog in the family!
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