46th President of the United States, Joe Biden
Discussion
Jeanboi said:
In this respect, LF seems to be overstating Trump's 'ailments' and understating Biden's.
LF, you see from the last debate, for example, Joe was led slowly down one step by Jill. Trump just walked off. There is a massively marked difference there.
If anyone is the biased observer here it is YOU!
Biden is now more often being led around or assisted by aides, or his wife, or Barack Obama. He has to enter and exit Air Force 1 on the lower steps, for example. It's really OBVIOUS to anyone who isn't blinded by bias that these particular ailments seem to be afflicting Joe Biden more than Donald Trump.
Another sign of your bias is that you NEVER question Byker when he suggests similar things about Trump, without particularly professional backup, over on the other thread. I don't question him either, to be fair.
Mortarboard - I find your argument right now to be lacking in good faith.
You spent a lot of time insinuating that I was simply pushing or following a narrative when I suggested Joe Biden was compromised in the ways we've recently seen. You tried the old 'guilt by association' trick by saying I shared this 'narrative' with the GOP, even when I gave you a WSJ report that backed up what I felt. I'd never even given anything the people from that party were saying the time of day and had never used or quoted what they might have been saying to back up what I was suggesting on here.
You kept querying with me what I'd fall back on if it turned out Joe Biden didn't turn out like he did in the debate, even suggesting I might explain it would be because a (sharper) body double had stood in for Biden, which was something I'd never cited and never would! Why do you do this? Why do you obfuscate the matter in this way?
Before the debate I asked you for your opinion on Joe Biden's current state - you only said 'sharper than Trump'.
That's not really much of an answer but even in that limited context it was clear from the debate that Trump was far sharper than Biden. It is obvious from the aftermath that there is far more concern about the decline of Joe Biden's cognitive health than Trump's. It's clear as day!
Now you're trying to paint a picture of pneumothorax as a Trump shill or a biased Trump fan, just because you don't like what they're saying. I am certain you don't do this to people who state positive things about Biden or negative things about Trump.
Returning to the Biden vs Trump debate you argued up to the last moment against my point that Biden would not 'win' this debate and my point that Biden would not come out of this looking very good at all.
I was right, your were wrong.
I'm sure you'll keep arguing against what's becoming increasingly evident about Biden right until the last moment when you're proven wrong again. Seems a pointless endeavour!
Roosevelt was in a wheelchair. I don’t think any physical infirmity is a bar to office. Do you?LF, you see from the last debate, for example, Joe was led slowly down one step by Jill. Trump just walked off. There is a massively marked difference there.
If anyone is the biased observer here it is YOU!
Biden is now more often being led around or assisted by aides, or his wife, or Barack Obama. He has to enter and exit Air Force 1 on the lower steps, for example. It's really OBVIOUS to anyone who isn't blinded by bias that these particular ailments seem to be afflicting Joe Biden more than Donald Trump.
Another sign of your bias is that you NEVER question Byker when he suggests similar things about Trump, without particularly professional backup, over on the other thread. I don't question him either, to be fair.
Mortarboard - I find your argument right now to be lacking in good faith.
You spent a lot of time insinuating that I was simply pushing or following a narrative when I suggested Joe Biden was compromised in the ways we've recently seen. You tried the old 'guilt by association' trick by saying I shared this 'narrative' with the GOP, even when I gave you a WSJ report that backed up what I felt. I'd never even given anything the people from that party were saying the time of day and had never used or quoted what they might have been saying to back up what I was suggesting on here.
You kept querying with me what I'd fall back on if it turned out Joe Biden didn't turn out like he did in the debate, even suggesting I might explain it would be because a (sharper) body double had stood in for Biden, which was something I'd never cited and never would! Why do you do this? Why do you obfuscate the matter in this way?
Before the debate I asked you for your opinion on Joe Biden's current state - you only said 'sharper than Trump'.
That's not really much of an answer but even in that limited context it was clear from the debate that Trump was far sharper than Biden. It is obvious from the aftermath that there is far more concern about the decline of Joe Biden's cognitive health than Trump's. It's clear as day!
Now you're trying to paint a picture of pneumothorax as a Trump shill or a biased Trump fan, just because you don't like what they're saying. I am certain you don't do this to people who state positive things about Biden or negative things about Trump.
Returning to the Biden vs Trump debate you argued up to the last moment against my point that Biden would not 'win' this debate and my point that Biden would not come out of this looking very good at all.
I was right, your were wrong.
I'm sure you'll keep arguing against what's becoming increasingly evident about Biden right until the last moment when you're proven wrong again. Seems a pointless endeavour!
dvs_dave said:
Ok, as a starter, why are you pro trump? You’re regularly on here defending him.
You must be confused.I am not pro Trump.
I NEVER defend him.
I might be critical of Biden. But I NEVER defend Trump and criticism of Biden is not necessarily done in defence of Trump.
Discussing the differences between the two, and discussing the implications of this reality, does not equate to support for either.
I would welcome you to quote me and question me when I do make a statement that is implicitly supportive of Trump or shows a defence of his actions.
A weak Biden could lead to a second Trump. Can you not see this?
LF5335 said:
And yet all do is defend Trump and criticise Biden. By any measure that shows clear support for one over the other, but you still deny that support. Why?
LF - you're too far down your own rabbit hole to be reasoned with.I've never expressed support for Trump. When I do please quote me and we can discuss directly.
Until then there's no merit in discourse with you.
Why Biden must withdraw
The president and his party portray themselves as the saviours of democracy. Their actions say otherwise - https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/07/04/why-b...
The president and his party portray themselves as the saviours of democracy. Their actions say otherwise - https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/07/04/why-b...
paulguitar said:
thatsprettyshady said:
All three threads are littered with many such examples.
My main issue with all of them (the threads) is that when Biden/Biden fans do the same thing as Trump they are somehow always good and doing it in the interests of the people so should be applauded, but when Trump does something it’s always either terrible, an abuse of power or it’s extrapolated out to worse case scenario where trump is LiTeRaLlY hItLeR.
It’s usually the same rhetoric and actions from both, dressed up differently.
I don't think there are any Biden 'fans' here, are there? Pretty much every poster, including byker, has said they'd prefer another candidate.My main issue with all of them (the threads) is that when Biden/Biden fans do the same thing as Trump they are somehow always good and doing it in the interests of the people so should be applauded, but when Trump does something it’s always either terrible, an abuse of power or it’s extrapolated out to worse case scenario where trump is LiTeRaLlY hItLeR.
It’s usually the same rhetoric and actions from both, dressed up differently.
As recently as the D-Day appearance, anyone doubting Bidens condition was rounded on.
skwdenyer said:
Roosevelt was in a wheelchair. I don’t think any physical infirmity is a bar to office. Do you?
I'm not saying that and you're oversimplifying the situation. For one, Roosevelt was in his wheelchair because of polio. It's an entirely different condition and presents entirely different symptoms to those that Joe Biden is displaying now.
I don't believe polio is particularly a 'cognition' related illness or a degenerative brain related illness, whereas Joe's symptoms appear to be. Could be wrong, not an expert!
But to play along with your analogy - put Roosevelt, in a wheelchair, against Biden.
Who would be mentally sharper? Who would have the greatest stamina to work a day? Who would be the better orator?
I don't know the answer to that; do you?
skwdenyer said:
Jeanboi said:
In this respect, LF seems to be overstating Trump's 'ailments' and understating Biden's.
LF, you see from the last debate, for example, Joe was led slowly down one step by Jill. Trump just walked off. There is a massively marked difference there.
If anyone is the biased observer here it is YOU!
Biden is now more often being led around or assisted by aides, or his wife, or Barack Obama. He has to enter and exit Air Force 1 on the lower steps, for example. It's really OBVIOUS to anyone who isn't blinded by bias that these particular ailments seem to be afflicting Joe Biden more than Donald Trump.
Another sign of your bias is that you NEVER question Byker when he suggests similar things about Trump, without particularly professional backup, over on the other thread. I don't question him either, to be fair.
Mortarboard - I find your argument right now to be lacking in good faith.
You spent a lot of time insinuating that I was simply pushing or following a narrative when I suggested Joe Biden was compromised in the ways we've recently seen. You tried the old 'guilt by association' trick by saying I shared this 'narrative' with the GOP, even when I gave you a WSJ report that backed up what I felt. I'd never even given anything the people from that party were saying the time of day and had never used or quoted what they might have been saying to back up what I was suggesting on here.
You kept querying with me what I'd fall back on if it turned out Joe Biden didn't turn out like he did in the debate, even suggesting I might explain it would be because a (sharper) body double had stood in for Biden, which was something I'd never cited and never would! Why do you do this? Why do you obfuscate the matter in this way?
Before the debate I asked you for your opinion on Joe Biden's current state - you only said 'sharper than Trump'.
That's not really much of an answer but even in that limited context it was clear from the debate that Trump was far sharper than Biden. It is obvious from the aftermath that there is far more concern about the decline of Joe Biden's cognitive health than Trump's. It's clear as day!
Now you're trying to paint a picture of pneumothorax as a Trump shill or a biased Trump fan, just because you don't like what they're saying. I am certain you don't do this to people who state positive things about Biden or negative things about Trump.
Returning to the Biden vs Trump debate you argued up to the last moment against my point that Biden would not 'win' this debate and my point that Biden would not come out of this looking very good at all.
I was right, your were wrong.
I'm sure you'll keep arguing against what's becoming increasingly evident about Biden right until the last moment when you're proven wrong again. Seems a pointless endeavour!
Roosevelt was in a wheelchair. I don’t think any physical infirmity is a bar to office. Do you?LF, you see from the last debate, for example, Joe was led slowly down one step by Jill. Trump just walked off. There is a massively marked difference there.
If anyone is the biased observer here it is YOU!
Biden is now more often being led around or assisted by aides, or his wife, or Barack Obama. He has to enter and exit Air Force 1 on the lower steps, for example. It's really OBVIOUS to anyone who isn't blinded by bias that these particular ailments seem to be afflicting Joe Biden more than Donald Trump.
Another sign of your bias is that you NEVER question Byker when he suggests similar things about Trump, without particularly professional backup, over on the other thread. I don't question him either, to be fair.
Mortarboard - I find your argument right now to be lacking in good faith.
You spent a lot of time insinuating that I was simply pushing or following a narrative when I suggested Joe Biden was compromised in the ways we've recently seen. You tried the old 'guilt by association' trick by saying I shared this 'narrative' with the GOP, even when I gave you a WSJ report that backed up what I felt. I'd never even given anything the people from that party were saying the time of day and had never used or quoted what they might have been saying to back up what I was suggesting on here.
You kept querying with me what I'd fall back on if it turned out Joe Biden didn't turn out like he did in the debate, even suggesting I might explain it would be because a (sharper) body double had stood in for Biden, which was something I'd never cited and never would! Why do you do this? Why do you obfuscate the matter in this way?
Before the debate I asked you for your opinion on Joe Biden's current state - you only said 'sharper than Trump'.
That's not really much of an answer but even in that limited context it was clear from the debate that Trump was far sharper than Biden. It is obvious from the aftermath that there is far more concern about the decline of Joe Biden's cognitive health than Trump's. It's clear as day!
Now you're trying to paint a picture of pneumothorax as a Trump shill or a biased Trump fan, just because you don't like what they're saying. I am certain you don't do this to people who state positive things about Biden or negative things about Trump.
Returning to the Biden vs Trump debate you argued up to the last moment against my point that Biden would not 'win' this debate and my point that Biden would not come out of this looking very good at all.
I was right, your were wrong.
I'm sure you'll keep arguing against what's becoming increasingly evident about Biden right until the last moment when you're proven wrong again. Seems a pointless endeavour!
Bonefish Blues said:
skwdenyer said:
Roosevelt was in a wheelchair. I don’t think any physical infirmity is a bar to office. Do you?
Do I correctly recall that he was never photographed in it, such was his sensitivity about being a disabled President?thatsprettyshady said:
Why Biden must withdraw
The president and his party portray themselves as the saviours of democracy. Their actions say otherwise - https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/07/04/why-b...
I think we are now finally past the point of 'plausible deniability'. The president and his party portray themselves as the saviours of democracy. Their actions say otherwise - https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/07/04/why-b...
Up until now they've been able to deny, deny, deny.
They've been able to insinuate it's all CT, or it's all GOP narratives or Russian disinformation or.......or........
From this point onwards people are much wiser to it and that's partly because the media has (rather suddenly and belatedly!) turned the corner on the matter. The free ride 'because of Trump' has reached the end of the rails.
From now on the people still trying to excuse or defend Biden's issues will look increasingly foolish and their attempts will be seen as a lack of respect for the intelligence of the voting public.
They could try to continue the charade, losing goodwill and empowering or reinforcing some of Trump's arguments, or they could work towards putting forwards someone who can beat Trump decisively and openly. Let's see how it goes.
Jeanboi said:
I think we are now finally past the point of 'plausible deniability'.
Up until now they've been able to deny, deny, deny.
They've been able to insinuate it's all CT, or it's all GOP narratives or Russian disinformation or.......or........
From this point onwards people are much wiser to it and that's partly because the media has (rather suddenly and belatedly!) turned the corner on the matter. The free ride 'because of Trump' has reached the end of the rails.
From now on the people still trying to excuse or defend Biden's issues will look increasingly foolish and their attempts will be seen as a lack of respect for the intelligence of the voting public.
They could try to continue the charade, losing goodwill and empowering or reinforcing some of Trump's arguments, or they could work towards putting forwards someone who can beat Trump decisively and openly. Let's see how it goes.
I’m not a Trump supporter, but …Up until now they've been able to deny, deny, deny.
They've been able to insinuate it's all CT, or it's all GOP narratives or Russian disinformation or.......or........
From this point onwards people are much wiser to it and that's partly because the media has (rather suddenly and belatedly!) turned the corner on the matter. The free ride 'because of Trump' has reached the end of the rails.
From now on the people still trying to excuse or defend Biden's issues will look increasingly foolish and their attempts will be seen as a lack of respect for the intelligence of the voting public.
They could try to continue the charade, losing goodwill and empowering or reinforcing some of Trump's arguments, or they could work towards putting forwards someone who can beat Trump decisively and openly. Let's see how it goes.
LF5335 said:
Jeanboi said:
I think we are now finally past the point of 'plausible deniability'.
Up until now they've been able to deny, deny, deny.
They've been able to insinuate it's all CT, or it's all GOP narratives or Russian disinformation or.......or........
From this point onwards people are much wiser to it and that's partly because the media has (rather suddenly and belatedly!) turned the corner on the matter. The free ride 'because of Trump' has reached the end of the rails.
From now on the people still trying to excuse or defend Biden's issues will look increasingly foolish and their attempts will be seen as a lack of respect for the intelligence of the voting public.
They could try to continue the charade, losing goodwill and empowering or reinforcing some of Trump's arguments, or they could work towards putting forwards someone who can beat Trump decisively and openly. Let's see how it goes.
I’m not a Trump supporter, but …Up until now they've been able to deny, deny, deny.
They've been able to insinuate it's all CT, or it's all GOP narratives or Russian disinformation or.......or........
From this point onwards people are much wiser to it and that's partly because the media has (rather suddenly and belatedly!) turned the corner on the matter. The free ride 'because of Trump' has reached the end of the rails.
From now on the people still trying to excuse or defend Biden's issues will look increasingly foolish and their attempts will be seen as a lack of respect for the intelligence of the voting public.
They could try to continue the charade, losing goodwill and empowering or reinforcing some of Trump's arguments, or they could work towards putting forwards someone who can beat Trump decisively and openly. Let's see how it goes.
Now that’s said I’m happy to support Jeanboi’s post above.
This attitude that criticism of Joe Biden must be taken as support for Donald Trump is excruciating and juvenile.
BikeBikeBIke said:
LF5335 said:
I’m not a Trump supporter, but …
Wouldn't a Trump supporter *want* Biden to be the Dem candidate? Surely they'd want a lame duck opponent that Trump has a tried and tested attack procedure already set up for and someone who clearly doesn't seem to be able to pick apart Trump's BS, man on man?
It's almost as if some still think that denying, denying, denying (*) will be a more worthwhile strategy!
(*) Or insinuating without basis, as Mortarboard, LF and Dave seem to like to try, any chance they get
Edited by Jeanboi on Thursday 4th July 18:45
LF5335 said:
Jeanboi said:
I think we are now finally past the point of 'plausible deniability'.
Up until now they've been able to deny, deny, deny.
They've been able to insinuate it's all CT, or it's all GOP narratives or Russian disinformation or.......or........
From this point onwards people are much wiser to it and that's partly because the media has (rather suddenly and belatedly!) turned the corner on the matter. The free ride 'because of Trump' has reached the end of the rails.
From now on the people still trying to excuse or defend Biden's issues will look increasingly foolish and their attempts will be seen as a lack of respect for the intelligence of the voting public.
They could try to continue the charade, losing goodwill and empowering or reinforcing some of Trump's arguments, or they could work towards putting forwards someone who can beat Trump decisively and openly. Let's see how it goes.
I’m not a Trump supporter, but …Up until now they've been able to deny, deny, deny.
They've been able to insinuate it's all CT, or it's all GOP narratives or Russian disinformation or.......or........
From this point onwards people are much wiser to it and that's partly because the media has (rather suddenly and belatedly!) turned the corner on the matter. The free ride 'because of Trump' has reached the end of the rails.
From now on the people still trying to excuse or defend Biden's issues will look increasingly foolish and their attempts will be seen as a lack of respect for the intelligence of the voting public.
They could try to continue the charade, losing goodwill and empowering or reinforcing some of Trump's arguments, or they could work towards putting forwards someone who can beat Trump decisively and openly. Let's see how it goes.
Biden hasn't suddenly gone gaga last week. His mental and physical condition has been apparent to anyone. Surely doubly apparent to Democrat insiders. Nonetheless he easily won the primary. So if declines to stand down and loses to Trump it is on the Democrats for kidding themselves he was capable of leading the country for another 4 years.
irc said:
Biden hasn't suddenly gone gaga last week. His mental and physical condition has been apparent to anyone. Surely doubly apparent to Democrat insiders. Nonetheless he easily won the primary. So if declines to stand down and loses to Trump it is on the Democrats for kidding themselves he was capable of leading the country for another 4 years.
I think the issue is a combination of Trump is so bad they’d think they would have an easy win, tradition for the standing president to have the choice, and the risk of not Biden then who - which could set off a fight within the party and result in a loss. Jeanboi said:
You must be confused.
I am not pro Trump.
I NEVER defend him.
I might be critical of Biden. But I NEVER defend Trump and criticism of Biden is not necessarily done in defence of Trump.
Discussing the differences between the two, and discussing the implications of this reality, does not equate to support for either.
I would welcome you to quote me and question me when I do make a statement that is implicitly supportive of Trump or shows a defence of his actions.
A weak Biden could lead to a second Trump. Can you not see this?
Hmmm, ok. Your posting style is completely at odds with that position and is leading everyone to believe the opposite. So you might want to have a think about that.I am not pro Trump.
I NEVER defend him.
I might be critical of Biden. But I NEVER defend Trump and criticism of Biden is not necessarily done in defence of Trump.
Discussing the differences between the two, and discussing the implications of this reality, does not equate to support for either.
I would welcome you to quote me and question me when I do make a statement that is implicitly supportive of Trump or shows a defence of his actions.
A weak Biden could lead to a second Trump. Can you not see this?
So hypothetically, if the presumptive candidates remain as they are currently, who would get your vote? Abstinence isn’t an option.
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