46th President of the United States, Joe Biden

[glazbagun]

bobbo89 said:

What's the Dems long game here? It's becoming increasingly apparent that they're exploiting a clearly unwell man for his name and political clout to get themselves back in office.

It seems to me they've gauged this all wrong and are now more than likely going to let Trump walk it unless they can replace Biden. We can all see it and it's just getting more and more undignified for the poor bloke...

We've seemingly had big party collapse in the Anglosphere. Labour were hit with Corbyn/entreeism after Millibands screw up. The Tories have eaten themselves over Brexit and the remains are dissolving into the Farage party.

The Republicans too have seemingly been consumed by a mix of Tea Party & Trumpist populism killing the pragmatic conservatives of old and the Dems seem moribund- first offering up Hillary for no reason other than it was Her Turn, and now sticking with Biden at a time of global crisis when they've had a whole term to get their plan together.

I don't remember the 70's, but I've never seen such a collapse of pragmatic centrism in my lifetime.

Edited by glazbagun on Friday 28th June 22:49

[Mortarboard]

Wheelspinning said:

It seems that you now remarkably remember about the 'ban hammer' including who made the request, but feel it appropriate to claim I have 'Signs of cognitive decline'.

Now that you've explained what you're obtusely referring to, yes.

Wheelspinning said:

Can I ask why you and the other dozen or so on the Trump thread always seem to revert to characteristics of the very man you detest when posters have the audacity to offer a different view; selective memory, name calls, cheap slurs like above?

Because when you post bks like that, you get bks in return. Post reasonable stuff to be considered and discussions happen.

I can't help your victim complex.

Note: some on this thread, the last time senility came up, actually donated to uk alzheimers association. So you can take your outrage elsewhere.

M.

Eta- could have been the '45 thread where the donations took place

Edited by Mortarboard on Friday 28th June 20:23

[Bonefish Blues]

robscot said:

Bonefish Blues said:

Linky?

All major news sites worldwide.

I found a 37sec excerpt.

[skwdenyer]

p1stonhead said:

Seems like the debate nerves perhaps got to him because his speech tonight was completely a different person. Not even remotely doddery or forgetful.

Wonder if it’s too late though. Will be an interesting few months.

He made the mistake of trying to be a bit like Trump, packing every answer with "stuff" rather than replying in considered, more set-piece answers like debaters of yore. And perhaps his debate prep included constant Trump-esque heckling and interruptions.

Debating Trump is a tricky thing. As Mark Twain said, never try to argue with stupid people: they'll drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.

People are talking about Newsom, but would he have been better able to deal with Trump? It is very hard to have a sensible debate with somebody who just lies the whole time. What do you do? Laugh at him? Spend your time calling him out? Both of those play into his hands, and leave him still calling the shots. I'm not sure what the correct strategy against him is, but I don't believe anyone's found it yet.

Unlike some, I listened to the start of the debate whilst doing some work, only watching a little later. Not for the first time, i couldn't believe my ears - Trump sounded like a deranged and dangerous loon, wholly unfit to hold office and looking set to dismantle even more of the fabric of the US, whilst Biden just sounded tired.

Unlike many, I don't care if Biden is a great debater. His job is to take decisions, build consensus, get stuff done. His Presidency has been pretty good in that regard. If I could vote in this election, I'd support Biden for that reason: he has a track record of competence; his opponent leaves behind him a wake of chaos.

Clearly Biden got himself in a bad place in this debate. Perhaps the lack of an audience was a mistake? But having looked back at his first Trump debate in 2020, and adjusting for his clearly compromised voice, I honestly didn't see anything to be worried about. And, yes, I'm aware I'm out of step with prevailing views on that, and I'm not suggesting there aren't a lot of people who will judge him poorly for yesterday.

See this video of his appearances after the debate: https://www.nbcnews.com/video/joe-biden-thanks-sup... - that doesn't seem to support the narrative.

[Beati Dogu]

I knew the "debate" reminded me of something:

[Wheelspinning]

Mortarboard said:

Because when you post bks like that, you get bks in return. Post reasonable stuff to be considered and discussions happen.

I can't help your victim complex.

Note: some on this thread, the last time senility came up, actually donated to uk alzheimers association. So you can take your outrage elsewhere.

M.

Eta- could have been the '45 thread where the donations took place

Edited by Mortarboard on Friday 28th June 20:23

What 'victim complex' do I have?

Do you mean taking offence that you accuse myself as having 'cognitive decline' I have a victim complex?

Just to be clear, the definition of 'cognitive decline' is ' a form of cognitive impairment and one of the earliest noticeable symptoms of Alzheimer's disease and related dementias'.

So just to be clear you feel that's an amusing post about myself?

A very strange sense if humour you have if so.

Let's hope you feel as though it's an appropriate label to band about for fun and belittlement that you feel it appropriate to make a donation to the charity you mentioned or is that just more lip service?

[FourWheelDrift]

I think he has a condition like encephalopathy that comes a goes and his team know it and try to get him in front of a microphone during one of his good moments. Trouble speaking, no control of eyes, falling over, tremors, muscle weakness, memory loss all signs he has been displaying. If of course his team knows this and yet keep putting him out there they are awful people to be doing this to him.

[Mortarboard]

Wheelspinning said:

What 'victim complex' do I have?

Because you think it's all about you.

It's not.

M.

[PurplePenguin]

skwdenyer said:

p1stonhead said:

Seems like the debate nerves perhaps got to him because his speech tonight was completely a different person. Not even remotely doddery or forgetful.

Wonder if it’s too late though. Will be an interesting few months.

He made the mistake of trying to be a bit like Trump, packing every answer with "stuff" rather than replying in considered, more set-piece answers like debaters of yore. And perhaps his debate prep included constant Trump-esque heckling and interruptions.

Debating Trump is a tricky thing. As Mark Twain said, never try to argue with stupid people: they'll drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.

People are talking about Newsom, but would he have been better able to deal with Trump? It is very hard to have a sensible debate with somebody who just lies the whole time. What do you do? Laugh at him? Spend your time calling him out? Both of those play into his hands, and leave him still calling the shots. I'm not sure what the correct strategy against him is, but I don't believe anyone's found it yet.

Unlike some, I listened to the start of the debate whilst doing some work, only watching a little later. Not for the first time, i couldn't believe my ears - Trump sounded like a deranged and dangerous loon, wholly unfit to hold office and looking set to dismantle even more of the fabric of the US, whilst Biden just sounded tired.

Unlike many, I don't care if Biden is a great debater. His job is to take decisions, build consensus, get stuff done. His Presidency has been pretty good in that regard. If I could vote in this election, I'd support Biden for that reason: he has a track record of competence; his opponent leaves behind him a wake of chaos.

Clearly Biden got himself in a bad place in this debate. Perhaps the lack of an audience was a mistake? But having looked back at his first Trump debate in 2020, and adjusting for his clearly compromised voice, I honestly didn't see anything to be worried about. And, yes, I'm aware I'm out of step with prevailing views on that, and I'm not suggesting there aren't a lot of people who will judge him poorly for yesterday.

See this video of his appearances after the debate: https://www.nbcnews.com/video/joe-biden-thanks-sup... - that doesn't seem to support the narrative.

I think you might be grasping at straws

[bloomen]

FourWheelDrift said:

I think he has a condition like encephalopathy that comes a goes and his team know it and try to get him in front of a microphone during one of his good moments. Trouble speaking, no control of eyes, falling over, tremors, muscle weakness, memory loss all signs he has been displaying. If of course his team knows this and yet keep putting him out there they are awful people to be doing this to him.

I think he's an ancient man who has good days and bad days like most of them.

On a good day all doubt is erased.

Am sure most would rather there was no reason to doubt at all.

[Wheelspinning]

Mortarboard said:

Wheelspinning said:

What 'victim complex' do I have?

Because you think it's all about you.

It's not.

M.

No idea what you are talking, and most likely nobody else does.

I see you just dismissed your 'amusing' cheap shot about dimentia and the opportunity to make a donation to the charity you brought up for such types that do so.

Your no better than Trump; its quite ironic.

2 peas in a pod.

[We are all Brexiteers now]

Mortarboard said:

We are all Brexiteers now said:

TonyToniTone said:

LF5335 said:

I hope you’ve never stood still in your life!

So not doctored or fake, just a case of reverse musical statues?

I see the Biden (pbuh) fanboys are still insisting he is compos mentis. Even the Jonestown inhabitants showed more independent thought.

Going to be a lot of disappointment when the debates happen, and Joe biden isn't a bumbling old coot.

That's the problem with creating these false narratives- reality doesn't give a damn.

M.

Well that aged well.

[Mortarboard]

He seems just fine this afternoon
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/28/biden-cam...

And record fundraising just after the debate
https://people.com/joe-biden-strongest-grassroots-...

And it appears team trump all wrong about a "juiced up joe" and wanting a drugs test?

M.

[CTO]

The Rotrex Kid said:

Old man stumbles like old man and liar lies. There's your debate wrap up

Honestly don't know what people were expecting. Trump waffled on about Golf and Biden murdering 9 month old babies in the womb, Biden stumbled over his words and flapped about a bit. It was a flat 'debate' as it was ever going to be with the format.

My money is still on the dems (Willing to take a £20 bet if anyone wants a go ) as I really do the think the 'cult' of Trump has dropped off significantly since 2020.

Go on then, I fancy a flutter. I'll take your bet

[borcy]

Mortarboard said:

He seems just fine this afternoon
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/28/biden-cam...

And record fundraising just after the debate
https://people.com/joe-biden-strongest-grassroots-...

And it appears team trump all wrong about a "juiced up joe" and wanting a drugs test?

M.

I'm sure he has his good moments, nevertheless that doesn't detract from the noticeable moments he has when he shows age related decline. I think people are thinking if he's like this now what's he going to be like in his second term. I don't think that's an unreasonable question.

[The Rotrex Kid]

CTO said:

The Rotrex Kid said:

Old man stumbles like old man and liar lies. There's your debate wrap up

Honestly don't know what people were expecting. Trump waffled on about Golf and Biden murdering 9 month old babies in the womb, Biden stumbled over his words and flapped about a bit. It was a flat 'debate' as it was ever going to be with the format.

My money is still on the dems (Willing to take a £20 bet if anyone wants a go ) as I really do the think the 'cult' of Trump has dropped off significantly since 2020.

Go on then, I fancy a flutter. I'll take your bet

Winner winner! Looking forward to a result!

[Bonefish Blues]

Mortarboard said:

He seems just fine this afternoon
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/28/biden-cam...

M.

Same as the State of the Union, but I think even here, with prompters, he was more faltering. Maybe it's a new-found confirmation bias, but I worry, as we all should.

[Otispunkmeyer]

borcy said:

I'm sure he has his good moments, nevertheless that doesn't detract from the noticeable moments he has when he shows age related decline. I think people are thinking if he's like this now what's he going to be like in his second term. I don't think that's an unreasonable question.

You can watch videos from 5 years ago and it's like a different person. It's sad to see really, definite decline, he's really not close to being 100%. I've lost several family members to things like Alzheimer's, Picks disease etc its just awful to see. Like a very slow motion car crash.

[Mortarboard]

borcy said:

I'm sure he has his good moments, nevertheless that doesn't detract from the noticeable moments he has when he shows age related decline. I think people are thinking if he's like this now what's he going to be like in his second term. I don't think that's an unreasonable question.

I agree, it's not an unreasonable question.

But from what we've seen, (imo), it's a hell of a jump to think he's incapable of doing the job.

He's old. Not incompetent.

M.

[thatsprettyshady]

Mortarboard said:

He seems just fine this afternoon
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/28/biden-cam...

And record fundraising just after the debate
https://people.com/joe-biden-strongest-grassroots-...

And it appears team trump all wrong about a "juiced up joe" and wanting a drugs test?

M.

You can see where the (ridiculous) rumours about there being body doubles come from it's like a different person!