46th President of the United States, Joe Biden
Discussion
thatsprettyshady said:
I see this every so often in these thread stating as factual that if Trump gets in he’s going to:
- end elections
- be a dictator for his whole term
- be installed as some sort of monarch
- end the democratic process
Etc etc
It’s these sorts of statements which are damaging to the democrats, can you lay out exactly where these threats to democracy have come from, from whom and exactly what is meant to happen - with sources if possible.
I struggle to believe any of it as the same sort of thing was said in 2016 and none of it came to pass.
At the moment it just seems like doomposting but would appreciate seeing the evidence for any of it.
He installs yes men/women and gets rid of anyone who disagrees with him. He wants to be treated as a king/dictator and have nobody stand in his way. He doesn't respond well to anyone questioning him, as seen by how his lawyers have been in the trials.- end elections
- be a dictator for his whole term
- be installed as some sort of monarch
- end the democratic process
Etc etc
It’s these sorts of statements which are damaging to the democrats, can you lay out exactly where these threats to democracy have come from, from whom and exactly what is meant to happen - with sources if possible.
I struggle to believe any of it as the same sort of thing was said in 2016 and none of it came to pass.
At the moment it just seems like doomposting but would appreciate seeing the evidence for any of it.
He's petty and vindictive and an awful human being so he'll use any power he has to go after anyone that stood up to him last time. He's said he will and people around him have also said he will.
He tried to steal the last election with fake electors and riled up a large group of people to try and overthrow the results which ended up in the January 6th debacle and all of the fake electors.
Between his statements and his actions and the obvious traits that he displays in his character the evidence is all there.
Then you add in that the GOP and all of the judges they installed last time are all in and ready to run roughshod over the constitution at every turn to give Trump what he wants, plus the weakness of Democrats and independents to stand up to them when they blatantly ignore the rules and you have all the ingredients for what has been described.
It's not doomposting because the evidence is there to show it can and will happen.
Edited by F1GTRUeno on Friday 28th June 10:15
stuckmojo said:
Who?
I am serious. Who are the Democrat stars?
GOP has a few, like DeSantis, Vivek, and some more.
I am not following the Democrats, but all I can hear is Newsom (Jesus Christ!!!) or Michelle Obama (which is nonsense, nepotistic and dynastic). I would welcome a strong Democrat.
What's wrong with Newsom?I am serious. Who are the Democrat stars?
GOP has a few, like DeSantis, Vivek, and some more.
I am not following the Democrats, but all I can hear is Newsom (Jesus Christ!!!) or Michelle Obama (which is nonsense, nepotistic and dynastic). I would welcome a strong Democrat.
And DeSantis and Vivek are hardly stars. Especially DeSantis, who's star has completely faded.
stuckmojo said:
Bonefish Blues said:
They couldn't bump the incumbent against his wishes, that was the problem. They know they have sure-fire winners amongst their ranks. Same Q for the GOP, of course 
Who? I am serious. Who are the Democrat stars?
GOP has a few, like DeSantis, Vivek, and some more.
I am not following the Democrats, but all I can hear is Newsom (Jesus Christ!!!) or Michelle Obama (which is nonsense, nepotistic and dynastic). I would welcome a strong Democrat.
Probable leading contenders would be the democrat governors in purple states like Andy Beshear, Gretchen Whitmer, Josh Shapiro etc. as they have proven appeal to swing voters, track records of getting elected and running a state. Newsome gets mentioned a lot and has name recognition but as governor of California his ability to appeal to swing voters is less proven.
Excruciating to watch.
A conman lying with panache and conviction spewing out his greatest hits with no real challenge from the moderators. In the other corner a frail decent man who was truthing in hesitant and not very convincing fashion.
Who knows where things go from here - but there can now be very few Americans believing that Biden could be an effective 86 year old Commander-in-Chief.
A conman lying with panache and conviction spewing out his greatest hits with no real challenge from the moderators. In the other corner a frail decent man who was truthing in hesitant and not very convincing fashion.
Who knows where things go from here - but there can now be very few Americans believing that Biden could be an effective 86 year old Commander-in-Chief.
Mortarboard said:
Jeanboi said:
The White House allies say Biden is sharp as a tack when out of the public eye, yet what can be seen of his public appearances does not reflect that at all.
Here's a CNN interview with Siobhan Hughs of the WSJ, explaining the reasoning behind a headline of theirs which questioned Joe Biden's current state. She suggests he's not much better in governmental meetings than what we see of him in public.
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/05/politics/video/...
She notes that three meetings were studied and Joe Biden was found to have mumbled, to have spoken in such a low tone that others could only hear every other word or could not understand what he was saying.
She noted that he was over reliant on note cards, even using note cards to cover points that were obvious and shouldn't have needed note cards to prompt.
She suggested he had a loose command of the details.
It's not a good look and doesn't bode well for the debate he's supposed to be having.
And again,if at the debates old grandpa Joe shows up, and he's not mumbling, low voiced, and able to debate just fine without note card and/or autocue, what's the narrative going to be?Here's a CNN interview with Siobhan Hughs of the WSJ, explaining the reasoning behind a headline of theirs which questioned Joe Biden's current state. She suggests he's not much better in governmental meetings than what we see of him in public.
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/05/politics/video/...
She notes that three meetings were studied and Joe Biden was found to have mumbled, to have spoken in such a low tone that others could only hear every other word or could not understand what he was saying.
She noted that he was over reliant on note cards, even using note cards to cover points that were obvious and shouldn't have needed note cards to prompt.
She suggested he had a loose command of the details.
It's not a good look and doesn't bode well for the debate he's supposed to be having.
Body double? (As originally said)
This is the problem with the GOP narrative of old senile joe- it runs the risk of being the "boy who cried wolf"
We'll see next week
M.
As I predicted, Joe did not 'beat' Trump in this debate and the resounding effect of this debate is that more people can now see and are willing to openly comment that they believe Joe Biden is weak and compromised.
Side note, for the other thread, is that Trump still lies and talks rubbish! No surprise there.
Another side note - you insisted I shared the same 'narrative' as the GOP - that's incorrect. I never called Joe Biden senile, as you suggest they did. There's a scale to this and he's not there yet, but he's along that path.
Your talk of 'narratives' was also a red herring. I said what I saw. I saw many instances of Joe Biden's compromised faculties and posted a WSJ report about what they'd seen of it. That's not a 'narrative'.
It has been clear for a long time that, instead of 'boy cries wolf', it's been 'the emperor's new clothes' with Biden.
So many of his aides, staff, apologists and defenders have been too prepared to delude themselves and to try to gaslight others into thinking that Joe Biden is just fine and that any criticism is either CT stuff or to be written off as support for Trump. That has been the case on this very forum. The only 'narrative' that had been pushed on this forum was that Joe Biden was just fine, that Joe Biden would serve Trump his backside in this debate. Some even cited Joe Biden's SOTU performance as an indication of what he'd do to Trump. His SOTU speech wasn't even great. He trailed off in that and you could see him losing energy through it. It was scripted. It wasn't a one on one debate against an opponent where he had to think very quickly to formulate responses to criticism or questions. He had the whole thing to himself!
As others have said, perhaps it's too late to think about who else can take on the challenge to be the Democrat's presidential candidate. It was a great mistake to have allowed the process to get to the stage that there was a debate between only two people at this point.
Wouldn't it be Harris that takes over from him?
She's really not liked at all and won't have the public support needed. Joe Biden put her there, not the voters.
Similar to what Pence was, a nodding dog of a VP, but not capable of more.
There is still a chance that others can put themselves forwards. Maybe this debate was the sign they need to realise that reliance on Joe Biden may not be enough and that the voters are looking for other options.
She's really not liked at all and won't have the public support needed. Joe Biden put her there, not the voters.
Similar to what Pence was, a nodding dog of a VP, but not capable of more.
There is still a chance that others can put themselves forwards. Maybe this debate was the sign they need to realise that reliance on Joe Biden may not be enough and that the voters are looking for other options.
moffspeed said:
Excruciating to watch.
A conman lying with panache and conviction spewing out his greatest hits with no real challenge from the moderators. In the other corner a frail decent man who was truthing in hesitant and not very convincing fashion.
Who knows where things go from here - but there can now be very few Americans believing that Biden could be an effective 86 year old Commander-in-Chief.
Broadly my take.A conman lying with panache and conviction spewing out his greatest hits with no real challenge from the moderators. In the other corner a frail decent man who was truthing in hesitant and not very convincing fashion.
Who knows where things go from here - but there can now be very few Americans believing that Biden could be an effective 86 year old Commander-in-Chief.
I would say though that typically moderators don't get involved to the extent that would have been necessary here. A failure of the format perhaps, but I don't think CNN were consciously seeking to let him lie, they just weren't equipped and the format doesn't really allow for breaking the flow to do constant fact checking.
Biden seems like a decent guy but there can be no one left surely who thinks he is running the country. For all of his flaws, which are incalculable, Trump looks and sounds like someone who is calling the shots when he's in the job. I think that matters more than the lies. Trump's base don't care, they are an unshakeable force, and Biden's performance surely didn't convert anyone who was on the fence.
The fact that Biden is clearly not in control also plays into the narrative that he is "controlled by special interests", and that Trumps playbook from 2016 that he is the one fighting for the little guy, rather than for corporations - even if it is all bulls
t as per - resonates again.It's been said many times but the fact that both the GOP and DNC are completely in thrall to these two men, for different reasons, is a damning inditement on American politics. For the longest time we had the same problem with Boris, utterly incompetent and self-seeking but managed to stay in power because of his "personality" and promises.
Jeanboi said:
Wouldn't it be Harris that takes over from him?
She's really not liked at all and won't have the public support needed. Joe Biden put her there, not the voters.
Similar to what Pence was, a nodding dog of a VP, but not capable of more.
There is still a chance that others can put themselves forwards. Maybe this debate was the sign they need to realise that reliance on Joe Biden may not be enough and that the voters are looking for other options.
Not automatically, the party convention would almost be a rerun of the primaries if Biden steps down but it is possible, just very unusual. No doubt TFG would delight in talking about it and it would make democratic campaigning difficult between now and the middle of August.She's really not liked at all and won't have the public support needed. Joe Biden put her there, not the voters.
Similar to what Pence was, a nodding dog of a VP, but not capable of more.
There is still a chance that others can put themselves forwards. Maybe this debate was the sign they need to realise that reliance on Joe Biden may not be enough and that the voters are looking for other options.
stuckmojo said:
Who?
I am serious. Who are the Democrat stars?
GOP has a few, like DeSantis, Vivek, and some more.
I am not following the Democrats, but all I can hear is Newsom (Jesus Christ!!!) or Michelle Obama (which is nonsense, nepotistic and dynastic). I would welcome a strong Democrat.
Michelle Obama could probably winI am serious. Who are the Democrat stars?
GOP has a few, like DeSantis, Vivek, and some more.
I am not following the Democrats, but all I can hear is Newsom (Jesus Christ!!!) or Michelle Obama (which is nonsense, nepotistic and dynastic). I would welcome a strong Democrat.
130R said:
stuckmojo said:
Who?
I am serious. Who are the Democrat stars?
GOP has a few, like DeSantis, Vivek, and some more.
I am not following the Democrats, but all I can hear is Newsom (Jesus Christ!!!) or Michelle Obama (which is nonsense, nepotistic and dynastic). I would welcome a strong Democrat.
Michelle Obama could probably winI am serious. Who are the Democrat stars?
GOP has a few, like DeSantis, Vivek, and some more.
I am not following the Democrats, but all I can hear is Newsom (Jesus Christ!!!) or Michelle Obama (which is nonsense, nepotistic and dynastic). I would welcome a strong Democrat.
Bonefish Blues said:
130R said:
stuckmojo said:
Who?
I am serious. Who are the Democrat stars?
GOP has a few, like DeSantis, Vivek, and some more.
I am not following the Democrats, but all I can hear is Newsom (Jesus Christ!!!) or Michelle Obama (which is nonsense, nepotistic and dynastic). I would welcome a strong Democrat.
Michelle Obama could probably winI am serious. Who are the Democrat stars?
GOP has a few, like DeSantis, Vivek, and some more.
I am not following the Democrats, but all I can hear is Newsom (Jesus Christ!!!) or Michelle Obama (which is nonsense, nepotistic and dynastic). I would welcome a strong Democrat.
That could be a sign that she may have thoughts about it. Last night's debate and today's media and public response may be an instigator.
As others have said, the 'dynastic' feeling of this may not help, but I'm sure many would be really keen to hear what she has to say.
It's undecided voters and floaters that need to be persuaded. Would she be able to do this?
Surely there's nothing about her that would sway Dem voters to back Trump?
Bonefish Blues said:
SWoll said:
Bonefish Blues said:
Polls say she also wins easy, but she's not for standing.
Polling said the same about Hillary in 2016 right up until the election. How did that work out?SWoll said:
Bonefish Blues said:
SWoll said:
Bonefish Blues said:
Polls say she also wins easy, but she's not for standing.
Polling said the same about Hillary in 2016 right up until the election. How did that work out?
F1GTRUeno said:
If they replaced Biden now they'd look even weaker for deciding based on one debate.
They SHOULD have put someone else up for election but it's too late now.
.They SHOULD have put someone else up for election but it's too late now.
I seem to recall reading during the 2020 presidential campaign that Biden would only serve 1 term if he won. If he continues to stand in 2024 and wins he will be 86 years old by the end of the next term. He has been in public service for decades - senator, VP, and now president. In some ways I respect his desire to continue to serve, however surely now is the time to step aside for a younger candidate and enjoy life with his family.
Bonefish Blues said:
SWoll said:
Bonefish Blues said:
SWoll said:
Bonefish Blues said:
Polls say she also wins easy, but she's not for standing.
Polling said the same about Hillary in 2016 right up until the election. How did that work out?Ecosseven said:
I seem to recall reading during the 2020 presidential campaign that Biden would only serve 1 term if he won. If he continues to stand in 2024 and wins he will be 86 years old by the end of the next term. He has been in public service for decades - senator, VP, and now president. In some ways I respect his desire to continue to serve, however surely now is the time to step aside for a younger candidate and enjoy life with his family.
Yep, all about service and duty with Joe..Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff