45th President Of The United States, Donald Trump (Vol. 14)

[hidetheelephants]

Byker28i said:

Standard tell with trump, if someone calls him Sir in a story, it's a lie. He has to pretend he has that adoration and respect

Ben Carson would call him Sir though, very slowly and as though he was deep in a K hole.

[Mortarboard]

Supreme Court ruling on Presidential immunity come out today.

While I think the correct ruling should be "core official acts are immune, privately motivated acts are not", I expect some sort of fudge along the lines of "legal mumble, send it to the lower courts so scotus can then adjudicate on a case by case basis"

M.

[paulguitar]

LF5335 said:

captain_cynic said:

You should be worried.

Have you tried reading what he writes instead of just attacking him?

You might find out.just how bad the person you're defending is.

Nah, that would just be sensible and "not" Trump supporters don'ts do sensible.

I’ve got a theory on what’s happening with all the stposting. The right wingers who are also, very tough and super patriots are about to see their beloved party wiped out in the UK, so are desperately posting on here to compensate and show they’re still well ‘are and that they can pick a winner to stick it to the libtards, or some other derogatory childish phrase. It’s important for them to be seen to be considerably more right wing than yow.

It's interesting since the debate that several old names have popped into here again that have been absent for years, going on again about 'lefties'.


I think it's worth pointing out again that for most of us, the trump debacle is not about 'left' or 'right'. A disagreement over policy is no problem at all and is to be encouraged. This is something entirely different. trump is not unacceptable because he is a Republican, that has nothing to do with it.

[RustyMX5]

Mortarboard said:

Supreme Court ruling on Presidential immunity come out today.

While I think the correct ruling should be "core official acts are immune, privately motivated acts are not", I expect some sort of fudge along the lines of "legal mumble, send it to the lower courts so scotus can then adjudicate on a case by case basis"

M.

I, Donald J Trump, Elected President of the United States of America and acting within that capacity, hereby ban the Democratic party... would get around your suggestion.

Sorry

[Mortarboard]

RustyMX5 said:

Mortarboard said:

Supreme Court ruling on Presidential immunity come out today.

While I think the correct ruling should be "core official acts are immune, privately motivated acts are not", I expect some sort of fudge along the lines of "legal mumble, send it to the lower courts so scotus can then adjudicate on a case by case basis"

M.

I, Donald J Trump, Elected President of the United States of America and acting within that capacity, hereby ban the Democratic party... would get around your suggestion.

Sorry

I, Joseph R Biden, Elected President of the United States of America and acting within that capacity, hereby ban the Republican party...

That's why I think they'll fudge it. Then scotus gets to choose what's "official"

M.

[hidetheelephants]

Mortarboard said:

I, Joseph R Biden, Elected President of the United States of America and acting within that capacity, hereby ban the Republican party...

That's why I think they'll fudge it. Then scotus gets to choose what's "official"

M.

And why the whole rotten lot needs binning, or stuffing with non-insane justices, imposition of term limits and a less st way of punishing the acceptance of bribes.

[RustyMX5]

Mortarboard said:

RustyMX5 said:

Mortarboard said:

Supreme Court ruling on Presidential immunity come out today.

While I think the correct ruling should be "core official acts are immune, privately motivated acts are not", I expect some sort of fudge along the lines of "legal mumble, send it to the lower courts so scotus can then adjudicate on a case by case basis"

M.

I, Donald J Trump, Elected President of the United States of America and acting within that capacity, hereby ban the Democratic party... would get around your suggestion.

Sorry

I, Joseph R Biden, Elected President of the United States of America and acting within that capacity, hereby ban the Republican party...

That's why I think they'll fudge it. Then scotus gets to choose what's "official"

M.

You got me there

[thatsprettyshady]

Byker28i said:

thatsprettyshady said:

LF5335 said:

You wanted some evidence that Trump is endorsing Project 2025. I gave you his Agenda 47, which mirrors many of their policies. I also showed you Schedule F, that he signed in via an Exec Order right at the end of his Presidency, but was rightly killed by Biden in his early days in office. You’ve skirted over this, put your fingers in your ears and pretended that it’s an innocuous set of,plans, that are just really good for the US.

Wonder why I reply like I do to you?

We’ve both given our opinion on things, we both disagree with each other so let’s leave it there.

The trouble is, we disprove what you say, give you evidence, and you disagree and thats it...

trump is only out for himself, no-one else. He's offered to sell us policy for personal profit, prepared to change it if people give him money.
Rather like he was selling pardons...

He's numerous times said he will weaponise govt departments for revenge against those he feels wronged him - as he did before

These are his promises...

as per the opinion piece
"Let's face it: Our presidential choice is between a racist, sexist, lying, fascist amoeba, or a stuttering old man who nevertheless supports policies to protect women's health, the environment and public education; a warrior against corporate collusion to raise prices, drive down wages and slash regulations that protect the safety of everything from the drugs we depend on to the food we eat.

Is that really a choice?"

Edited by Byker28i on Monday 1st July 13:44

I disagree because all of the “evidence” you bring up is either opinion pieces based on feelings or wild extrapolation based on worst case scenarios where “he could do this…” but little of what he’s actually said.

Granted he could of course be some super dictator fascist putting everyone who says no to him in jail, and of course that’s possible - but I don’t see it happening.

We had 4 years of him from 2016-2020 and whilst he sent some mean tweets and rubbed people up the wrong way I don’t think he acted half the way some on here would lead you to believe.

“Oh but this time around he’s definitely going to be a mix of the worst parts of Pol Pot and Stalin” I hear you say? Well yes of course but us discussing it here isn’t going to make any of it real, and the opinion of some journalists isn’t going to either.

I’m definitely going to leave it there for now, as it’s just going to be opinions back and forth with no evidence, from either side.

[threespires]

Sadly I think that following Biden's performance it's a Trump easy win.

[paulguitar]

thatsprettyshady said:

We had 4 years of him from 2016-2020 and whilst he sent some mean tweets and rubbed people up the wrong way I don’t think he acted half the way some on here would lead you to believe.

trump's term was an endless series of scandals. It started on day one with the bizarre lies about the crowd size at his inauguration, and it finished up with a deadly riot in the capital, with threats to hang the vice president whilst trump watched on for several hours, before eventually emerging to tell the rioters that they were 'very special' and that he 'loved them'.

Why try to condescendingly make out it was just some 'mean tweets'?

thatsprettyshady said:

I’m definitely going to leave it there for now, as it’s just going to be opinions back and forth with no evidence, from either side.

What does this mean? There is endless evidence; verbal, video and written.

[Mortarboard]

thatsprettyshady said:

I disagree because all of the “evidence” you bring up is either opinion pieces based on feelings or wild extrapolation based on worst case scenarios where “he could do this…” but little of what he’s actually said.

Granted he could of course be some super dictator fascist putting everyone who says no to him in jail, and of course that’s possible - but I don’t see it happening.

We had 4 years of him from 2016-2020 and whilst he sent some mean tweets and rubbed people up the wrong way I don’t think he acted half the way some on here would lead you to believe.

“Oh but this time around he’s definitely going to be a mix of the worst parts of Pol Pot and Stalin” I hear you say? Well yes of course but us discussing it here isn’t going to make any of it real, and the opinion of some journalists isn’t going to either.

I’m definitely going to leave it there for now, as it’s just going to be opinions back and forth with no evidence, from either side.

Except it isn't just "opinions back and forth with no evidence", is it

For a start, 175 million Americans lost the federal right to abortion, thanks to two Trojan horse scotus judges.

Literally dozens of boxes of classified material in a country club, ffs.

Happy to sell policy to the highest bidder.

Clearly compromised by putin (Helsinki conference)

And 5 dead during "peaceful protest where some tourists went to the house"

M.

[anonymous-user]

OzzyR1 said:

Your dislike of Trump is obvious, for what it's worth I also think a second term would be an appalling outcome.
Problem is you state above: "but if it's between trump and Biden how on earth can anyone be considering trump".
As much as you think you are right, a lot of others disagree & the polls are closer than ever.

People have to look at the whole thing in the round and I think, come November, they will.

The reality is that outside of his MAGA base there is very little enthusiasm for Trump here. Even the MAGA support has dwindled, hence the poor turnout at his rally's compared to 2016 and 2020. There is no evidence of high levels of support evinced by yard signs, flags etc.. even in red states like the one I live in. Again, different from 2016 and 2020.

It's also undeniable that many democrats would prefer a younger candidate. I would, I would have in 2020 although I came eventually to believe, and still do, that Biden was the only candidate who could beat Trump last time. I had hoped that, after the 2022 midterms, he would announce that he would not seek a second term but he did not so we are where we are.

So you have to look at the wider picture. Joe Biden has been, by any measure, an excellent President. We have the best job numbers in history and an economy that is strong. His infrastructure bill created jobs and has had a marked impact on the country. (Trump on the other hand talked about infrastructure endlessly and did nothing). Biden has introduced bills to reduce drug costs for those who can least afford them and, especially in the case of insulin, that has proven to be a real life saver for many. He has done much to help veterans, minorities and the LGBTQ communities. He has lifted the burden of student debt from the shoulders of millions. He has signed the most significant gun control legislation in decades and he has made America stronger on the world stage and cemented relationships with our allies.

Biden is not flashy and loud, he quietly gets on with the job and actually achieves results. He also, most importantly, has a great team behind him. You don't hear about most of them because they are busy at work but they are there and are competent and capable. If Biden fell into a coma tomorrow we know that there is a whole team who would step up. I haven't heard of any Biden official who has said that they will not endorse him and the senior members of the party are united behind him.

Contrast that with Trump. Over 40 of his own, hand picked, senior officials have said they won't endorse him in 2024. That includes people who are highly respected like Dan Coates, John Kelly, Mark Esper, Ty Cobb, John Lehman and William Cohen. You can ad to that Mike Pence, his own VP! There 5 sitting GOP senators who have refused to endorse him and numerous current and former members of the House as well as numerous current and former governors.

Then there are the numerous hand picked Trump staffers who are in Prison or are now convicted felons. Like Bannon, Navarro, Flynn, Meadows, Manafort, gates etc.... No need of course to mention that Trump is himself a convicted felon whose main motivation in standing again is to stay out of prison.

A Biden presidency stands for decency, achievement and stability. A Trump presidency stands for chaos, self enrichment and criminality.

Nov 8th is 4 months away. As Harold Wilson famously said 'A week is a long time in politics". Four months is an age. Come November 8th the voters will have a clear choice between an old old, decent guy with a track record of success and a strong experienced team behind him and an old, crooked guy with a track record of chaos and failure and a team of unqualified yes men behind him. The choice is stark and it will be up to the American people to make the right one.

[anonymous-user]

If Trump wins, as some of you are so happy to predict, these are the key points I can see that will be a direct consequence within the first 12 months:

USA will withdraw most if not all support for Ukraine. Russia will take Ukraine then expand its offensive to Estonia, etc. leading to enormous tension within NATO. A multi country war in Eastern Europe will become a very real possibility.

USA will heavily relax sanctions, embargos, etc. with China and Russia creating enormous world trade tensions, increased foreign debt, accusations of bribery, etc.

USA will revise taxation to such an extent that the wealth gap passes its tipping point leading to a Oligarchy style of government (even more so than current)

USA will so strongly oppose immigration that the existing immigrants will effectively become economic slaves. They will be forced to to work for a pittance (which most already do), or move to one of the camps which will be for all intents and purposes be concentration camps

USA will revise its civil servant structure to make it nigh on impossible to stop those governing from passing whatever legislation they want. Democracy, which is sketchy at best in the USA, will cease to exist. And once its gone, its gone.

USA will have a marked increase in civil disobedience, mass shootings and riots. This will lead to more restrictive laws, civil segregation, etc.

Call it fear mongering all you like but I'd be more interested in someone giving a good argument to illustrate why some or all of the above won't happen.

[shakotan]

Supreme Court has ruled that Trump is 'partially' immune from prosecution regarding crimes whilst in office.

https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-i...

ETA: Official acts fall under immunity, but personal actions do not.

Edited by shakotan on Monday 1st July 15:35

[Bonefish Blues]

Mortarboard said:

RustyMX5 said:

Mortarboard said:

Supreme Court ruling on Presidential immunity come out today.

While I think the correct ruling should be "core official acts are immune, privately motivated acts are not", I expect some sort of fudge along the lines of "legal mumble, send it to the lower courts so scotus can then adjudicate on a case by case basis"

M.

I, Donald J Trump, Elected President of the United States of America and acting within that capacity, hereby ban the Democratic party... would get around your suggestion.

Sorry

I, Joseph R Biden, Elected President of the United States of America and acting within that capacity, hereby ban the Republican party...

That's why I think they'll fudge it. Then scotus gets to choose what's "official"

M.

Looks like SCOTUS are opening a fudge outlet...

[captain_cynic]

From a quick read it seems to be a way for the supreme court or kick the can down the road with the usual suspects hoping Trump gets back in to support them and their grifting.

They don't want to say that a president is immune as that means Biden can do what he wants to them. But by the same token they don't want to say Trump isn't immune as that means the court cases against him can go ahead.

So they've muddied the water by asking what is an "official act".

[Countdown]

fatbutt said:

If Trump wins, as some of you are so happy to predict, these are the key points I can see that will be a direct consequence within the first 12 months:

USA will withdraw most if not all support for Ukraine. Russia will take Ukraine then expand its offensive to Estonia, etc. leading to enormous tension within NATO. A multi country war in Eastern Europe will become a very real possibility.

USA will heavily relax sanctions, embargos, etc. with China and Russia creating enormous world trade tensions, increased foreign debt, accusations of bribery, etc.

USA will revise taxation to such an extent that the wealth gap passes its tipping point leading to a Oligarchy style of government (even more so than current)

USA will so strongly oppose immigration that the existing immigrants will effectively become economic slaves. They will be forced to to work for a pittance (which most already do), or move to one of the camps which will be for all intents and purposes be concentration camps

USA will revise its civil servant structure to make it nigh on impossible to stop those governing from passing whatever legislation they want. Democracy, which is sketchy at best in the USA, will cease to exist. And once its gone, its gone.

USA will have a marked increase in civil disobedience, mass shootings and riots. This will lead to more restrictive laws, civil segregation, etc.

Call it fear mongering all you like but I'd be more interested in someone giving a good argument to illustrate why some or all of the above won't happen.

I'm not happy to predict it, I just think it's going to happen.

I completely agree with the possibility of most of the things in your list happening, the problem is that a BIG chunk of the US electorate WANT them to happen.

[Mortarboard]

Bonefish Blues said:

Looks like SCOTUS are opening a fudge outlet...

As expected.

Trump thinks he's got a slam dunk, in that he can claim whatever he likes is "an official act", and ultimately can appeal any and all contrary opinions to (what he believes to be) his tame scotus.

M.

[14]

Well, I that’s not what I expected. I don’t see how Roberts can conclude that the Supreme Court don’t have to list everything that is an official act by a President. The way I see it it’s uncharted, so the Courts would have to decide every time someone sues the Government because that person doesn’t think whatever the President did is an official act.

[Beati Dogu]

Mortarboard said:

Remember when roe vs wade was "settled law?

I do. Fun times.

It was alway judicial overreach, which was why it was overturned. And now it has been left to the states to decide, which is the way it should be.